What does it take to be a pro?

CrockPot

CrockPot

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Sounds like you have a pretty solid background/personality for poker. Although do keep in mind that knowing something isn't the same as being able to put it into practice for yourself.

Virtually every poker player (winning, breakeven and losing) KNOWS about bankroll management. But a very small percentage are good at sticking to it. Maybe because they get bored grinding out profit in smaller games, or convincing themselves that they are ready to move up before they actually are ready.
"knowing something isn't the same as being able to put it in to practice", right which is exactly why I'm going to continue to study and play in the coming few years so that I will be putting these things into practice. I don't really think I have to worry about jumping limits before I'm ready because I've done this before and its turned out quite bad for me, I feel since then though I've learned my lesson. Thanks for the advice.

I think before knowing I would want to go 'pro' I'd like to see how I'd do putting in ~25hrs./wk. 'part-time' (in hopes of supplementing an income).

I've also read from other's that it's suggested to have 6mos. to 1yr.'s worth of living expenses set aside.


I think one of the most difficult aspects of being a poker pro is the mental aspect of it (dealing with the huge downswongs, dealing with the countless hours of grinding, dealing with the dealing with the other players in live game atmosphere, knowing you NEED to run ok as your livelihood/bills are depending upon it).
And this is even referring to players who are VERY GOOD players (ones who already 'know' they are good)
Ok, I have also heard about the 6 months to year money supply, I believe I read about it in the poker mindset, but could be wrong. I will be getting a small side job at first. I certainly agree with you about the entire mental aspects. Thanks for the feedback.
 
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bikkeromano

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My grandfather always says ,,,,,to be a professional player you need 2 things ,,,,, money and patient ................i think one of the most importan thing you need is be patient on the game ,,,,wait your move and analize the other player .and of course have the money ....... .....only one think in mind .............win ................
 
CrockPot

CrockPot

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The fact that you speak about poker concepts in this way "I know these things," as well as your poker experiences, tells me you're probably not ready to go pro.

I see nothing in your post about practicality: cost of living, quality of life you want, what you've actually done to start moving toward your goals, or any kind of game plan.

And that's all ignoring the fact that I see no proof in this post that you're even a winning player. I don't mean to be harsh, but saying "I know I'm a winner, and not on a heater," is meaningless. Post some numbers, how much volume have you played in your life, and how much money have you made? I know you're not planning on leaving for Vegas at this moment, but if you're planning to try to do so in 2-5 years, do you have any idea how much money you'll need before you do? What stakes you'll have to play, and what win-rate you'll need? You say you haven't played much live, and yet you make it seem like you can just hop in and be a winner there. This may or may not be true.

Also, I skimmed through some of the answers and your replies to them, and the fact that you seem to think you'll always be profitable is concerning to me. The games are constantly changing, and right now they are only getting tougher. Live is still pretty soft, but that can fluctuate as well. It just seems like you're not really thinking about this in a realistic way.

Edit: Oh and one last thing. If you think of watching the EPT and reading Poker News articles as "study," then I have to assume you've never made a true effort to systematically improve your game.
Ok so I'm going to try to answer all your concerns in order. First I have a grasp on these concepts as I do use them every time I sit at the table. But I don't want to come off as somebody who thinks they've mastered the game or concepts. I certainly haven't and will never will know everything in my life there's just to much to know, and like you said its ever changing. When I said "I know these things", I mean I've studied and practiced them not that I know everything about them. You certainly have a point about not having things like practicality. As for moving towards my goal I've started putting money aside for my bankroll, started keeping track of my tourney stats, joined CC and 2+2, and have been studying more. My game plan is to go pro in the next 2-5 years, but first I'll save money for a BR, study, play more live, play even more online, and then once I go pro I'll stick around here locally for a little while before moving, making frequent trips to Vegas, but also playing at the local casinos near me. I really don't feel the need to prove I'm a winning player to anyone (not trying to sound like a d***) but that doesn't mean I won't. I have been tracking my tourney stats but not really my cash game stats, though I've been winning frequently, I could get the history emailed to me by Bovada, which I'm going to do. So I'll make another Analyze my stats thread in the next few days or week. I know your not trying to be harsh just helpful and I thank you for that. The volume (like I said I don't have an exact number) is pretty big, I've been playing for a long time! I think I'll need about 10-20k, so that would be 5/10-10/20 and that's just for my bankroll I really haven't figured out the personal end of the finances and don't plan to until I reach the year to go mark then I'll figure those numbers out because they'll be more accurate as for what my needs are then rather than now. It's true I haven't played much live but usually online players do well in live, but not so much vise versa. But in the next 2-5 years I will be making an effort to play more live so that way I'll know if its a good or bad choice. Don't worry I'm realistic I know I won't always win every handor session. If I could I would either be cheating or on TV playing with the big boys. If I'm coming off as unrealistic it's mostly because there's only so much I can convey over an internet forum. I worry all the time if I'm actually good or just think I am. I do realize the games are always changing and will work hard to keep up with them. This ever changing environment can be off set by studying playing, and changing my own game to adjust. I do think of poker articles and shows as studying as well as reading strategy books and watching videos. By articles I mean ones that break down hands, plays, playing styles, ways to improve your game, etc. Not articles about things like what Phil Hellmuth is up to or Borgota counter fit chips, I know that's not studying. Thanks for your advice, I know your not trying to shoot my dream down but rather that you are trying to help me by being critical and I really appreciate that, pointing out the flaws is exactly what I wanted to be done so when the time comes Ill have it covered already. Thanks a lot!
 
ccocco

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I'm no professional, but pretty good poker. I think you'll be wanting to take lessons with a professional to strengthen your game, listen to the majority of young people who are professionals in my country, there are several, have taken classes with professionals to improve their game.
 
CrockPot

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I'm no professional, but pretty good poker. I think you'll be wanting to take lessons with a professional to strengthen your game, listen to the majority of young people who are professionals in my country, there are several, have taken classes with professionals to improve their game.
I would definitely like to find some pros to take lessons from. Thanks for the advice!

My grandfather always says ,,,,,to be a professional player you need 2 things ,,,,, money and patient ................i think one of the most importan thing you need is be patient on the game ,,,,wait your move and analize the other player .and of course have the money ....... .....only one think in mind .............win ................
I think I'm a pretty patient person so that's already covered! As for the money, well that I am working on haha.Thanks for the feedback!
 
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Matt Vaughan

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A couple things:

First, thanks for your reply (though in the future, just a small recommendation that you break your text apart into paragraphs - walls of text are hard to read.)

Second, I'm really impressed by your approach to this thread. Your replies indicate that you're open-minded and willing to re-think your thought processes and plans, which is one of the most important thing in improving as a poker player (and succeeding generally). So great job on that, and always try to keep it going.

Lastly, I can't remember if you already replied to this, but I wanted to reiterate someone's suggestion from in the thread: Finding a group of players of similar ability as you to discuss hands and theory with will be hugely beneficial for you.

Good luck.
 
CrockPot

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A couple things:

First, thanks for your reply (though in the future, just a small recommendation that you break your text apart into paragraphs - walls of text are hard to read.)

Second, I'm really impressed by your approach to this thread. Your replies indicate that you're open-minded and willing to re-think your thought processes and plans, which is one of the most important thing in improving as a poker player (and succeeding generally). So great job on that, and always try to keep it going.

Lastly, I can't remember if you already replied to this, but I wanted to reiterate someone's suggestion from in the thread: Finding a group of players of similar ability as you to discuss hands and theory with will be hugely beneficial for you.

Good luck.
In the future I will break my texts apart, sorry but I didn't realize it was hard to read. You'll have to forgive me I'm still new to forums.

I think its very important to be open minded in general and especially in poker. My approach is that everyone I know in real life has tried to stop me from playing poker. They think its gambling, or that I'm an addict, you know all the usual stuff associated with it. But I don't get mad at them they do it only because they care and don't truly understand poker. So therefor when It comes to people trying to help me with my poker, which is about 99% of people on this forum I try to remain open minded.

As for the group I agree It would be very beneficial, but like I said before everyone I know isn't into poker. But since I'm going to try to play more live I'm sure I'll meet people and either join or form a group.

Thanks! And good luck to you also!
 
HaNz17

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What you need:

responsibility
discipline
study

To get off in the long term.
 
redwhitealex

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my opinion to become the professional it is necessary to play with the best of the best. and the answer to it lies in each person. and it for all different.
 
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nnuubie

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The charts in picture frames is a good idea I'll write that down to remember as something I should do. I certainly could use a mentor I've been looking for a while but I don't know any serious card players, I guess looking online is my best bet. Thanks for the ideas!

You could use social media to look for a mentor in your area. Craigslist, or Meetup come to mind.
 
RCtheDabbler

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Bankroll, Persistent, Patience & a Good Poker Brain. Put these all together and you should do well.
 
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Discipline, patience, bankroll and pay attention. Don't let your ego or pride get in the way, good luck.
 
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Boriska797

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To become a professional I think to you initial money is needed to play a poker.And yet a bit patience and participating are in tournaments!
 
GGC2912

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No matter how good you get, there will be someone always better.....trick is to survive the competition and I think you are already smart enough to do that....I wish you the best of luck :)
 
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Gl on the whole " Going Pro in poker " thing. USA poker sucks... All the players left are mostly regs, albeit not great regs ( Myself included ) Add in a few sharks, and the games are pretty freaking tough to beat with the rake. I am not saying that it can't be done, but for people who aren't exceptionally bright and/or very intuitive, the games are quite a grind, and if you can't make $20 an hour don't even bother. Poker is a pipe dream for so many people, and when/if they start making decent money in it, they realize that it isn't half as exciting as they thought it would be. Idk... I have only played poker for 2-3 years, and I have seen/experienced a lot in poker, and I have seen a lot of people who are miserable and have wasted their life chasing what they will never catch. I would advise that you get your education. You can always come back and play when you finish/ play a little while in college. Just my 2 cents.
 
CrockPot

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Gl on the whole " Going Pro in poker " thing. USA poker sucks... All the players left are mostly regs, albeit not great regs ( Myself included ) Add in a few sharks, and the games are pretty freaking tough to beat with the rake. I am not saying that it can't be done, but for people who aren't exceptionally bright and/or very intuitive, the games are quite a grind, and if you can't make $20 an hour don't even bother. Poker is a pipe dream for so many people, and when/if they start making decent money in it, they realize that it isn't half as exciting as they thought it would be. Idk... I have only played poker for 2-3 years, and I have seen/experienced a lot in poker, and I have seen a lot of people who are miserable and have wasted their life chasing what they will never catch. I would advise that you get your education. You can always come back and play when you finish/ play a little while in college. Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for the advice but I wouldn't say your right. I feel like your viewing the glass half empty instead of half full. Poker's definitely on the up swing there's no denying that. Online legalization and interstate compacts, netteller coming back, and tourney numbers and guarantees are on the increase this year with WPT fields increasing and other things like pokerstars $8 million guarantee getting blown away by over $1 million dollars, and that's just to name a few positives. The pessimistic attitude of some members of the poker community is definitely going to hold its growth and progression back. And just because theirs many more regs doesn't mean its harder, just because they are regs doesn't mean they are good regs. That's just my opinion and I respect yours as well. Thanks for the response!

Gl on the whole " Going Pro in poker " thing. USA poker sucks... All the players left are mostly regs, albeit not great regs ( Myself included ) Add in a few sharks, and the games are pretty freaking tough to beat with the rake. I am not saying that it can't be done, but for people who aren't exceptionally bright and/or very intuitive, the games are quite a grind, and if you can't make $20 an hour don't even bother. Poker is a pipe dream for so many people, and when/if they start making decent money in it, they realize that it isn't half as exciting as they thought it would be. Idk... I have only played poker for 2-3 years, and I have seen/experienced a lot in poker, and I have seen a lot of people who are miserable and have wasted their life chasing what they will never catch. I would advise that you get your education. You can always come back and play when you finish/ play a little while in college. Just my 2 cents.
Hey, If you don't mind me asking are you a member on pokerowned.com? I checked out your profile and I seen your BCP name is formerstarspro, I think I remember playing with you on a poker owned freeroll awhile back, I don't play their freerolls anymore though. Also one more question are you really a former pro? Thanks in advance and good luck!
 
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teepack

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1. Experience- I've been playing poker since I was 15 and became serious with it at 16. I've played a little live but mostly online.
2. I'm strong emotionally I can hide my feelings and have been doing so for years my temper doesn't flare up and I haven't cussed anyone out since I was a kid. Emotion doesn't effect my judgment.
3. I've done my homework, I've read two books The Poker Mindset and Texas Hold'em odds an probabilities. I plan on reading more in the future. I have read countless internet post and articles on 2+2 and Cards Chat. I have also watched many instructional videos.
4. I'm my only support. I can't tell you how many people have tried to discourage me from poker, to many to count. I don't have one single supporter besides myself and that is what drives me to take it to the next level.
5. I'm good at math. All throughout school I was always in advanced math classes earning extra math credits in high school.
6. I'm ITM 33.2% of the time. I understand that to be a good rate also.
7. I know many games not just hold'em. EX. 5 card draw, 7 stud, Omaha, Irish, 2-7 triple and single draw, and a few others I'm forgetting about at the moment.
8. All my knowledge of poker is self taught, like books, videos, etc. nobody specifically showed me anything.
9. I have plenty of time to invest into learning new things about the game.
10. I know things already like polarizing range, pot odds, statistics, outs, BRM etc.
11. I'm a winning player I've won more than I've lost and I'm not just on some epic heater believe me I've lost my whole roll due to bad brm but I've fixed that since then. And I've dealt with a few nasty down swings.
That's all I can think of now but I will think of more later and add them.
So what are things I still need to learn and go over in time before I go pro and any advice that would be helpful would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!!!

1. I think you need more experience playing in a live setting - tourneys and cash games. It is hard to get any kind of feel for opponents online. To me, the hardest part about poker is learning to read your opponents.
2. Great.
3. I'm not a big fan of books because I think you have to develop your own style. To me, experience is the best teacher.
4. Believe in yourself.
5. You don't have to be great in math to be great in poker. Understanding odds is basic math. Don't make poker too complicated.
6. Is this tourneys, SNGs?
7. Pick one game and concentrate on it. Try to be a specialist and not a generalist.
8. Great. But playing live will give you an opportunity to study other players and their habits and tendencies.
9. Time is key. You have to be in it for the long haul. BRM will be key.
10. See my answer to No. 5.
11. That's great. Keep it up.
 
trolaAa

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Well.....when I became professional i will tell you
 
K

kidnaping

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living

living from it or at least win some cash regularly
 
A

Az4zel

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I Think its great your taking this seriously and seem to have a passion for it. Thats really a great start. scourge said most of my concerns in his post. I have been wanting to go pro for years now, but can't get a bankroll together, working and paying for my apartment and living expenses ect. I started playing online recently to get back to it.

I think someone asked but you didn't answer how old are you, just wonder how much real life experience you have already, you sound young. Are you already living on your own and supporting yourself completely? how many hours have you logged in a casino playing 1/2? and how did you do?

you said you have been playing for a long time, how many years?

Keep up the ambition and stay focused, your winnings over the long haul will be your judge of how your doing. Always keep up with reading a Pro gave me that advice and its the one thing i always make sure i do. Things are always changing like the others said.

I realize you said you would write down and figure out how much expenses you will have day to day. you said you would do that closer to the time you go pro because it would be more accurate.

I would suggest doing that write now. Get it all down on paper, living expenses, place to live, utilties, health insurance if you need it, car, gas, plane tickets to vegas, hotel stays, write it all down and see how much it will cost you for a year. The figure may astound you. It will help you put things into perspective. Good luck and Best wishes
-A
 
CrockPot

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*UPDATE*

I've learned how to play a few more games- 7Stud Hi/Lo, Omaha Hi/Lo, and Razz. I'm also working on tracking my cash game stats for each session like I already do with my tourneys.
 
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Check out my March 12, 2014 post on my blog "Cards, Dice and Wheels of Fortune" for my views on becoming a pro. Comments are appreciated and responded to. . .

http://tinyurl.com/pjreeqv
 
C

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*UPDATE*

I've learned how to play a few more games- 7Stud Hi/Lo, Omaha Hi/Lo, and Razz. I'm also working on tracking my cash game stats for each session like I already do with my tourneys.

i think it is great that you're learning more than one game... but a word of caution. i did as you are doing when i first discovered poker. learning how to play many variants of the game is good but it might slow your growth. it took me a long time to realize you are much better off to be a master in one field than a jack of all trades.

i'd focus on one game and one structure until you crush the game then move onto learning other games. i would pick NLHE cash games to learn how to crush first since they are spread everywhere.

And just because theirs many more regs doesn't mean its harder, just because they are regs doesn't mean they are good regs.

games are definitely harder now than they were a decade ago but that is to be expected. the games will always get a little tougher over time but they are still easily beaten if you put forth the effort.

going pro takes much more than just knowledge of the game and money. sure you can make some money playing this game with a bankroll and a solid game but you're not going to last long without self control and balance in your life.

i've attempted to make a living off this games more times than i care to recall. i lack balance and occasionally struggle with tilt which can ruin any great card player.

good luck, study the game, avoid -EV plays on and off the table, and hang out with your family and friends to keep balance in your life... you do all that and it's very possible to make it.
 
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winningpoker

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Slow and Steady game .... should keep bet at the rite time and should have the ability to guess the oppenent cards ....
 
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