I know WVH will call me an idiot, but here goes...
Sorry, WVH, but your stats mean nothing without a comparison of the value of posting in the BB vs posting in the cutoff. Of course the blinds always lose money, but to everyone who says that you should never post early, please answer this: Suppose you could play at a table where you alone could post your blinds in the dealer and cutoff position while everyone else had to post their blinds as usual. Would you play at that table? Don't you think that having position in the blinds would make a big difference in your return?
Now check the numbers. If you post as usual at a full ring, you're paying 1.5 BB to see 9 hands. This is exactly the same price per hand if you post 1 BB in the cutoff to see 6 hands. So if you're paying the same price/hand, wouldn't you rather have that money on the table in the cutoff?
I don't believe any of the crap about when I post affecting my cards, and I would never post after the cutoff, but if it was practical for me to just post 1 BB from the cutoff each round and skip the blinds and the button, I suspect it might be worth it. Yes, you're missing out on the most profitable position, but you're also skipping the two least profitable positions. If anyone wants to refute this with some real stats, I'll be happy to reconsider, but in order to do that they'd need to have played a lot of hands where they posted in the cutoff, and if they're already doing that, then they probably don't disagree with me.
You're 100% wrong but since you do it post your stats and I'll tell you how many bb/100 you're losing because of posting outside of the blinds.
Also of course we'd all play at a table where we got to post our blinds in position BUT what you're doing when you post early is posting 1 bb in position AND 1.5 bb out of position. It's a losing play.
I think you need to grow up. And stop acting like a top dog because you have 900+ posts. That is nothing. And post count means nothing. I have 9k+ posts on multiple other forums so I know exactly what kind of person you are, you are a troll. Now it would be stupid of me to make enemies having just arrived, because no one likes a cocky shit new to the forums, so I'm done in this thread.when people exclaim that i take offence too it and call me childish yes i do. hurry up and hit the post count limit for the day
staying at a table for 9 hands is a losing play imo. but i'm sure you will nicely point out how i am wrong
I doubt I have enough hands to prove or disprove this myself since I mostly play SNG's and MTT's. That's why I only said I suspected it might be worth it, but I'll see what I can find. If you have some reason for saying I'm 100% wrong other than it's just what you think, I'd be glad to hear it.
What you're paying for when you post the blinds is the ability to see hole cards up until the next bb. If I post 1 bb in position and then leave the table after 6 hands, then all I've done is pay .1666 bb per hand for six hands, but I got to pay that blind with good position. If you wait and pay the sb and bb and then leave the table after 9 hands, then you've still paid 1.666 bb per hand, but you had to pay those blinds in the worst positions. Please explain how that is a winning play when you just told me that you would rather pay your blinds in position if you could?
You're 100% wrong but since you do it post your stats and I'll tell you how many bb/100 you're losing because of posting outside of the blinds.
thread is turning into a flame war lol The Genera1, sent u pm so we can be "adults" about it but i was talking to yotalover and not u which is why i "trolled' you i guess cuz it wasn't even about you
Edit: and x2486, dude wouldn't that be a pain to leave every 6 hands? seems hardly worth it just from that sense of it
thread is turning into a flame war lol The Genera1, sent u pm so we can be "adults" about it but i was talking to yotalover and not u which is why i "trolled' you i guess cuz it wasn't even about you
Edit: and x2486, dude wouldn't that be a pain to leave every 6 hands? seems hardly worth it just from that sense of it
Ok here is the single biggest factor as to why waiting to post is better. If I wait to post I pay the same as you do for 9 hands. You play 6. 2 of my hands are from terrible position BUT 1 of my hands is from the BTN. Your way you never get to play the BTN. You're never guaranteed to act last. I always have the BTN and at least some of the time I can get the right to always act last from the BB.
So same price to play for you to get fewer hands AND no BTN. If that's not enough to convince you, I got nothing else.
I don't think he's actually say he would leave every 6 hands, just using the extremes to try to prove his point. It makes comparison easier. Same idea applies though even if he stays for a thousand hands.
BTW if we were talking about a live game I would absolutely post from the CO (BTN if allowed) for a couple of reasons but mainly because of the time it takes to play a round in a casino. Online it's seconds but live it can be 20 minutes.
FWIW-I always enter just after the button has passed...If it has gone more than the cutoff, I wait until the BB. Of course I am talking about FR.
Instead of posting right away or even waiting for the big blind, I sit out until the button passes me and then I enter the game.
FWIW-I always enter just after the button has passed...If it has gone more than the cutoff, I wait until the BB. Of course I am talking about FR.
I have never done any research on it as I didnt consider it a big deal, but I was always taught to enter after the button from whatever players were advising me for this reason I found on the web...
Instead of posting right away or even waiting for the big blind, I sit out until the button passes me and then I enter the game. I am now posting the big blind but I am doing so in late position. The blinds have the advantage of being in late position before the flop but the disadvantage of being in early position after the flop. When I wait until after the button passes I am entering the game in late position with the option to check or raise when it is my turn. After the flop, I am second-to-last to act, putting me in extremely good position. I still have several hands until the blinds get back to me.
Also -from Mod at FTP Forums
FWIW I'm pretty sure posting in the CO is always going to be profitable at a full FR table for a winning player simply based on the $/hand you end up paying for the first orbit. It was a couple of years since I saw the math on it though and I'm too lazy to do it again, but if anyone's curious it's really simple and straightforward.
Note: Here is an old, but on point article on posting from CardPlayer
Should You Wait for the Blinds to Pass?
Howard Lederer: In a ring game, posting the big blind after the button is an advantage. In a $10-$20 game, you have to pay only $10 to see eight hands, a better per-hand deal than $15 for 10 hands. And, you are in a better position when your blind money is in the pot. This is why you are allowed to do it only once as a courtesy when you sit down. If you miss your big blind after having played in the game, you have to post $15 after the button passes, and $5 of the post is dead money.
Many Live Poker Rooms allow you to enter free after the button has passed and there is no posting. Of course, in that case, it is a no-brainer to enter after the button has passed 100%
Online sites never let you post on the BTN, always the CO. Most card rooms don't let you post on the BTN either but some do. If you can post on the BTN that's def. the way to do it.
Posting behind in limit is going to be better than at NL simply because you'll get to see a lot of flops without having to put any more in the pot or for 1 more bet with good odds. Also 10 handed you get to see more hands after the CO than you do in a 9 handed game. So yeah, if you play 10-handed limit holdem, post behind.
That makes posting on the CO exactly the same as posting normal BB/SB. But it really offers the disadvantage of not getting that wiggle room to get comfortable at the table (allowing HUD's to come up, and watching villains demeanor, adjusting my rubber hemroid ring.........)
...and x2486, dude wouldn't that be a pain to leave every 6 hands? seems hardly worth it just from that sense of it
Online sites never let you post on the BTN, always the CO. Most card rooms don't let you post on the BTN either but some do. If you can post on the BTN that's def. the way to do it.
It seems like you're slowly coming around (or would you still say that posting behind in no-limit is "one of the dumbest things you can do"), but I think you've still got this backwards. Would you agree that having position is a more important factor in playing NL than in limit? (If not, then there's probably nothing left to discuss.) Assuming that you agree, then if posting behind in limit is the correct play, then it is an even more correct in NL.
No I still think it's a mistake even at Limit, I just think it's even more of a mistake at NL.
I'll also say this, I don't know of a single winner at the stakes I have played online (25nl - 100nl) who posts behind. So either we're all wrong and you're right or ...
Edit: I can actually only think of 1 reg I have ever played who always posted behind. This guy: http://www.pokertableratings.com/fulltilt-player-search/crossfade37