A Thread

[duggs]

20bb has fold equity, 13bb doesn't

 

[Matt Vaughan]

20bb has fold equity, 13bb doesn't

Doesn't that kind of depend on the stack sizes of the rest of the table?

 

[ScottishMatt]

We're not getting it in with AJo to fold out better though are we. So should FE really come into the equation?

 

[duggs]

yea and AJ is just a way better hand than QJ

 

[hackmeplz]

In shove/fold spots the equity of every hand is sum of FE+equity when called. When you have AJ and they fold KQ even though you had the best hand you're getting better value than if you were to fold, folding out hands with equity is always a positive even if you're ahead.

 

[ScottishMatt]

In shove/fold spots the equity of every hand is sum of FE+equity when called. When you have AJ and they fold KQ even though you had the best hand you're getting better value than if you were to fold, folding out hands with equity is always a positive even if you're ahead.

Ahh right. Starting to grasp it now.

Here are a few cash spots -

1. Got stumped here. On one hand I fold too much vs 3Bets (80'ish %) and that makes me want to call. On the other I really am not sure whether I profit in this spot. I hate jamming the flop but I can't really fold after calling preflop. I was jamming the turn when checked to. Thoughts?

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (UTG): $10.29
CO: $26.87 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
BTN: $10.42 (VPIP: 60.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
SB: $11.19 (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
BB: $4.00 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has Q:heart: K:diamond:

Hero raises to $0.30, fold, fold, fold, BB raises to $0.70, Hero calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.45, 2 players) J:diamond: 6:spade: T:heart:
BB bets $0.74, Hero calls $0.74

Turn: ($2.93, 2 players) 8:diamond:
BB bets $1.76, fold


2. Ranges are capped at 1 pair and no one hero's with 1 pair at 10NL right?

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: $10.70 (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 15.15, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 34)
MP: $3.19 (VPIP: 7.14, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
CO: $11.85 (VPIP: 21.43, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
BTN: $10.00 (VPIP: 21.43, PFR: 21.43, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
Hero (SB): $10.65
BB: $30.70 (VPIP: 46.15, PFR: 23.08, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)

Hero posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has J:heart: Q:club:

fold, fold, CO raises to $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, Hero calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($1.20, 4 players) 4:heart: 3:club: T:club:
Hero checks, BB checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($1.20, 4 players) K:diamond:
Hero bets $0.72, fold, CO calls $0.72, BTN calls $0.72

River: ($3.36, 3 players) 8:diamond:
Hero bets $4.00

 

[AlfieAA]

Matt what's your preferred game?...just had a look at all the hands you posted and quite a few of them were snap folds pre, what's the script man, is it just abit fun and loosey juicy or do you take them serious?..

 

[ScottishMatt]

Matt what's your preferred game?...just had a look at all the hands you posted and quite a few of them were snap folds pre, what's the script man, is it just abit fun and loosey juicy or do you take them serious?..

Do you mean my opening ranges, or when I call 3Bets too light?

My opening ranges are loose but not excessively so IMO . . .

 

[AlfieAA]

Cash hands..1. Fold to 3bet.....2.donk bet flop

 

[ScottishMatt]

I don't mind making moves. I'm experimenting with certain stuff is all.

"2.donk bet flop" - Are you asking what I did vs his donk? (I assume you are talking about the hand where I have 99)

 

[AlfieAA]

Do you mean my opening ranges, or when I call 3Bets too light?

My opening ranges are loose but not excessively so IMO . . .

Yeah calling/shoving 3bets light...lots of the hands was when you are in ep/mp and its far too light....if you're calling 3bets light then maybe your opening ranges are also abit light.

 

[AlfieAA]

I don't mind making moves. I'm experimenting with certain stuff is all.

"2.donk bet flop" - Are you asking what I did vs his donk? (I assume you are talking about the hand where I have 99)

Made a mistake here...JQ hand, misread it as JT and thought you had tp otf.....obv check is fine with jq.......before duggs comes in and berates me again.

 

[ScottishMatt]

Yeah I dunno. I'm playing pretty loose but I honestly feel like I have enough edge to warrant it vs the fairly one-dimensional 10NL regs. Even though I've never played much higher myself I definitely outclass them in just about every regard.

3Bet spots is something I'm a bit unsure of. I'm cool with my own 3Betting but what to do vs 3Bets gets me in trouble on occasion.

 

[AlfieAA]

Yeah I dunno. I'm playing pretty loose but I honestly feel like I have enough edge to warrant it vs the fairly one-dimensional 10NL regs. Even though I've never played much higher myself I definitely outclass them in just about every regard.

3Bet spots is something I'm a bit unsure of. I'm cool with my own 3Betting but what to do vs 3Bets gets me in trouble on occasion.

Depends who's 3betting you, usually you'll be OOP when they 3bet you so you need to look at their tendancies along with the strength of your own hand....hard to get any good fold to 4bet stats so if its not there because of not enough hands you would need to decide if what you wanna do based on their 3bet stat....if its higher then you can widen your 3bet calling range and if its low then you'll need to pass it....try and keep it as simple as poss, but there's nothing wrong with trying new things either...whatever works for you.....bb v button 3bets are easier as you can widen your range even more if villian goes for a lot of resteals....I'm 4betting with Ax Kx...hard to flat his 3bet coz then he hits 2 pair otf with his trash and you can't float succesfully.....I could be talking shite matt, just my thoughts....but I know it goes a lot deeper than this obv

 

[duggs]

lol at alfie saying i berate anyone,

 

[AlfieAA]

lol at alfie saying i berate anyone,

never mind that....is my thinking ok in the last post itt or am I way off?.....want to start thinking deeper about poker.

 

[Blobweird123]

lol at alfie saying i berate anyone,

Bro stop berating me!

 

[Matt Vaughan]

J8o I don't HATE, since CO is shaping up to be such a whale, but still seems like a fold.

For tournament hands, I'm no expert, so I'd defer to duggs. I'll give my input without looking at what he's said though. You can decided how much salt to take with it:

QJo I'm definitely just folding here. Not so much I think we never have fold equity, more that I don't think we have fold equity with a 12 bb stack facing a 2bb raise from an unknown UTG and there are antes in the pot.

TT I feel is my standard play though I'm not sure about it. I don't think we're deep enough to really flat and take a flop, though we do fold out a lot of UTG+1's weaker range by doing this. Unsure if he's stacking worse pairs ever here. Don't see a better play than jamming though.

AJo, jamming is okay I think. I'm not jamming if it folds to us. I'm just going to min open. The point I usually consider open-jamming to be better than min opening is about 15 or 16bb. But it's also table dependent, and if I have some idea of how the table will react to a jam vs. a min open it may sway me one way or the other.

66 This used to be a spot where I would snap-gii, but I don't think that's really correct. Villain is basically never jamming anything but things we flip with or we're dominated by. And we don't really need to take that spot, because we still have a decent stack.

A4o I probably would have shoved.

KJo Yes I would shove pre, then as played on the flop I think you took the nut worst line. He's limped in UTG+1. When you jam he's not going to be looking to hero call you with A high. Any king is going to stack off no matter what size you make it on the flop, or if you check, and the board isn't draw heavy, so seems like we just make him fold everything except Kx and an awkward AA that limped in.

QJo min open is fine.

T8s Seems fine with only like a 12 bb stack.

T9o I don't see tons of people limping in strong, so I don't hate a jam, but his stack is so short that I think it's fine to just fold it. If he didn't limp then yes I'm jamming.

KK I call.

A2o call me a pussy but I'm snap folding.

77 kind of the same as 66.

 

[ScottishMatt]

Two hands vs same villain. The first one is pretty standard (for us) but it obviously affects what we do in hand 2.

1.

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): $10.05
BB: $10.00 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
CO: $17.31 (VPIP: 26.32, PFR: 5.26, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)
BTN: $4.96 (VPIP: 29.41, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 18)

Hero posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has Q:club: A:spade:

fold, BTN raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $1.10, fold, BTN calls $0.80

Flop: ($2.30, 2 players) A:heart: 8:spade: 7:spade:
Hero bets $1.00, BTN raises to $3.86 and is all-in, Hero calls $2.86

Turn: ($10.02, 2 players) 5:diamond:

River: ($10.02, 2 players) K:spade:

Hero shows Q:club: A:spade: (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 58%, Flop 29%, Turn 18%)
BTN shows 8:diamond: 7:diamond: (Two Pair, Eights and Sevens) (Pre 42%, Flop 71%, Turn 82%)
BTN wins $9.57


2. Are we happy with how I played this?

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (CO): $10.15
BTN: $10.00 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
SB: $15.90 (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)
BB: $9.72 (VPIP: 30.43, PFR: 21.74, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 25)
UTG: $11.17 (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has 6:diamond: 5:diamond:

fold, Hero raises to $0.30, fold, fold, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65, 2 players) 6:club: 9:spade: 5:heart:
BB checks, Hero bets $0.45, BB raises to $1.10, Hero calls $0.65

Turn: ($2.85, 2 players) 2:club:
BB bets $1.70, Hero calls $1.70

River: ($6.25, 2 players) 4:spade:
BB bets $3.20, Hero calls $3.20

 

[AlfieAA]

2nd hand looks fine to me, not a scary flop so him re raising to protect against draws if he has a set...so I think he's FOS and has a highish pp...77-88...I think he would 3bet tens>....good here I think nh.

 

[redwards92]

rarely adequately discourage their bonuses








___________________
Fifa Coins

+1

 

[rumsey182]

I said I was going to start a thread. So here it is.

I'm not sure where to go with this, the goal is short and simple - get good at poker.

I'll get started by saying where I'm at now. I have a bankroll of about $300 and I'm going to play 10NL using a 30BI rule where I'll drop down in stakes if I fall down to 20BI's. I should probably also come up with a topic to generate some feedback with so here is a hand I played about 15 minutes ago.

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: $10.00 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
MP: $10.00 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
CO: $12.34 (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 100.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
BTN: $12.99 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)
Hero (SB): $10.00
BB: $10.69 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)

Hero posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has A♥ A♠

fold, fold, CO raises to $0.20, BTN calls $0.20, Hero raises to $0.94, fold, CO calls $0.74, fold

Flop: ($2.18, 2 players) Q♥ T♠ Q♣
Hero bets $1.16, CO calls $1.16

Turn: ($4.50, 2 players) K♣
Hero checks, CO bets $1.20, Hero calls $1.20

River: ($6.90, 2 players) 2♦
Hero checks, CO bets $1.30, Hero calls $1.30


So I wasn't exactly sure how to handle this. And how I'm unsure of how to approach any similar situations in the future, I have an overpair and the flop comes out paired on a card that hits villains range pretty well. I suppose if I had any hands on him I could use aggression stats to judge just how likely it is that he is going to try and take it away from me and then using the pot odds I'll try to determine whether it is worth a call.

Any advice on playing 3Bet pots OOP or some useful articles?

I would generally still be barreling here we likely take the pot down a decent bit and still have a draw to a decent st8, can be called by Kx here still, and it is st8 forward when we get raised

once we check, c/c is meh alright here but the problem is we give him the ability to actually range merge here and he can vbet the river and possibly get us to fold the better hand here, as well as we end up calling 2 bets against the Qx and better type hands we would have bet folded too ott

if called ott, just check the river and decide

 

[rumsey182]

Give me some 3Bet material plox!

I'm sure I played this adequately but wondering if I could do anything better, suggestions?

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: $4.02 (VPIP: 41.18, PFR: 11.76, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 17)
MP: $10.68 (VPIP: 13.33, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)
Hero (CO): $11.81
BTN: $9.62 (VPIP: 5.88, PFR: 5.88, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
SB: $10.75 (VPIP: 41.18, PFR: 29.41, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
BB: $10.00 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has A♥ 5♥

UTG calls $0.10, MP raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $0.94, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls $0.84, MP calls $0.64

Flop: ($2.97, 3 players) A♦ 3♠ K♣
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($2.97, 3 players) T♦
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets $1.13, UTG calls $1.13, fold

River: ($5.23, 2 players) 9♣
UTG checks, Hero bets $3.58, UTG calls $1.95 and is all-in

i dont mind this 3 bet, i wouldnt mind flatting with great relative position either

i think how coordinated the board is we need to cbet the flop, but as played it is fine

 

[rumsey182]

So here are the final 3 hands from my sessions where I'd like critique on.

1. PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: $15.33 (VPIP: 24.62, PFR: 23.08, 3Bet Preflop: 16.00, Hands: 66)
MP: $2.75 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
CO: $13.93 (VPIP: 38.89, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 18)
Hero (BTN): $11.48
SB: $21.66 (VPIP: 5.88, PFR: 5.88, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 18)
BB: $10.00 (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has 8♥ 9♥

UTG raises to $0.30, fold, CO raises to $0.60, Hero raises to $1.36, fold, fold, fold, CO calls $0.76

Flop: ($3.17, 2 players) 6♣ 6♥ T♦
CO checks, Hero bets $1.55, CO calls $1.55

Turn: ($6.27, 2 players) 4♦
CO checks, Hero checks

River: ($6.27, 2 players) K♣
CO checks, Hero bets $5.10

Good?

2. What do we do here?

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: $7.79 (VPIP: 21.43, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
Hero (CO): $10.76
BTN: $10.00 (VPIP: 7.69, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
SB: $14.23 (VPIP: 28.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 26)
BB: $36.22 (VPIP: 30.77, PFR: 30.77, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 26)
UTG: $12.13 (VPIP: 24.29, PFR: 22.86, 3Bet Preflop: 14.81, Hands: 71)

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has 9♣ 9♠

fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.31, fold, SB calls $0.26, BB calls $0.21

Flop: ($0.93, 3 players) 2♥ 5♠ 3♥
SB checks, BB bets $0.60


3. I was so tempted to call here as this guy had been very active. Had been 3Betting me a whole ton and we were building up a dynamic. I settled on folding cause I just couldn't bring myself to call down, it is 10NL and every X/R = teh nutz. In hindsight I think this should only be a bet if we are WA/WB and our decision is simple. Probably should have bet smaller anyway. Are we aiming to take SD from now on in a spot like this?

4 betting this first hand pre is so spewy flat or fold both are about the same EV

hand 2 i would generally raise given the texture, calling allows him to see his equity a little cheap assuming the type of hands i would expect to see donk

 

[rumsey182]

Not reg. Nit. FWIW I was mainly going for a bluff vs the nit than for value vs the fish. Anyway, here is another hand. Now he is kind of fishy and all but he's still a 10NL player and the standards are way too tight down here. I had no idea how much to bet so I just thought I'd go for the most likely to make him fold.

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: $10.32 (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
BTN: $10.00 (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 23.08, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
SB: $10.00 (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
BB: $7.22 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
Hero (UTG): $12.25

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has Q♣ J♣

Hero raises to $0.31, fold, fold, SB calls $0.26, fold

Flop: ($0.72, 2 players) 2♦ 7♣ 4♥
SB bets $0.40, Hero calls $0.40

Turn: ($1.52, 2 players) A♣
SB checks, Hero bets $0.90, SB calls $0.90

River: ($3.32, 2 players) 9♦
SB checks, Hero bets $10.64 and is all-in, fold


I fear this may turn into a spewfest thread lol. I'm really starting to pay more attention to my opponents and I know for sure he is just begging for a showdown. This may have been a bit OTT so gimme some advice on how much we should be betting in order to fold out unknowns when we decide to bluff OTR.

fold the flop ainec