Is poker "gambling"?

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cAPSLOCK

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The distinction between cultural interpretations and scripture is a very arbitrary one. The definition of what is considered scripture and what is not - i.e. the biblical canon - is itself a highly cultural thing and varies widely between christian creeds. And obviously jewish and islamic canons differ even more, even though they do have significant overlap.

OP's question was gambling re: Christianity. Canon doesn't vary all that much, there are few disagreements as to canon among the major Chistrian streams with the apocrypha being the main disagreement between protestants and catholic and orthodox.

That said the point remains valid even considering the apocrypha.

It is modern protestant (mostly evangelical) Christians who look to the bible (sans apocrypha in this case) as a final authority. I am ASSuming OP is of this stream from his questions.

Personally I do not hold the Bible as the final authority, but God himself. But this is another thread.
 
BelgoSuisse

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Personally I do not hold the Bible as the final authority, but God himself.

Same here, assuming that by God himself you're referring to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. May his noodly apendage forever touch you.
 
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chava85

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Websters dictionary describes gamble as

a : to play a game for money or property b : to bet on an uncertain outcome

2
: to stake something on a contingency : take a chance

According to this, if I invest in stocks, thats gambling, if I invest in real estate thats gambling and as a matter of fact, EVERY BUSINESS falls into this definition. What the church refers to as a gambler is someone who is willing to risk money or monetary valuable objects compulsevely where if things dont go the right was can really hurt someone financially and therefore hurting your personal life.

So the real question is, "how are you managing your bankroll, and how do you play poker" if you are overdrawing your bank account to play poker, or if you cash your check and use all the money to play poker before paying your bills, or if you play poker against the odds and try to get lucky all the time but keep losing... then yes ITS A SIN. But if you manage your bankroll well and can make a profit... consistently (key word) then you are running your own legitimate business, but yes it is a gamble and it always will just like any other business is.

In conclusion, its just about how you see poker. Do you see it as a business? or as a means to escape your troubles without reagard of the stakes at risk?
 
BelgoSuisse

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On the other hand, isn't the Christian god supposed to be all knowing and all mighty? That denies the notion of chance entirely, since everything that happens is ultimately god's will. If chance does not exist, then you're never gambling stricto sensu but merely leaving your fate into the hands of god.

Obviously the above is pure nonsense, but if you choose to believe in nonsense in the first place by being Christian, why not go all the way and be happy with it?
 
BelgoSuisse

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No one has ever argued that opening a small business is a gamble because acumen of the proprietor is the key factor and dominates any contribution that chance elements might play.

That's a very naive view of business. Pretty sure chance is actually the key factor in the survival of most small businesses.

For the better part of our history poker had been viewed by the courts as gambling on the grounds that luck was the predominant element.

That's a very naive view of poker. Pretty sure chance is actually the least important factor in the long term success of poker players.
 
iamhukleberry

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yes any time you risk anything on chance it is gambling and almost no matter what you have in your hand when you risk money on 2 cards you are gambling that those 2 cards made the best 5 card hand plain and simple no questions or religins can change that..
 
darkassassin89

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i think that if u know your villain then u will win in the long run. Say ur villian is a calling station and you hit a solid hand. So what do we doooo? Value VAleu VAULE! every street and try to get it all in on the river or thin value to make the donk call :D

IS this gambling? I know ur going to call anything i bet, SOO am i gambling when i bet my Set knowing ur going to call me ?!?! HMMMM?!?!? lol

:p
 
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I can't belive how many people think poker ISNT gambling and say its just skill, you really are a bit daft or completely clueless on how odds/betting works. Every hand in poker is about odds and wagering, anyone in the world with a braincell should understand you're betting on an outcome regardless of how much knowledge you have in a game.

It is a skill game, yes. However as I've said it IS gambling and if you can't understand the basics of what a gamble is then you're probarly doing everything else wrong in poker!

As I've said before. The most skilled player in the world who, lets say won every hand(Indeed not possible but making a point) he played is still gambling on each hand he plays.

Odds/outcome/wager = gamble. Simple as that even if you're phil ivey. So logically and very basic I don't understand how some of you can't seem to let it sink in..
 
evildoesit2003

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Well life is a gamble so why not poker 2.
 
BelgoSuisse

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I can't belive how many people think poker ISNT gambling and say its just skill, you really are a bit daft or completely clueless on how odds/betting works.

Or you are a bit daft yourself? People just take a larger perspective.

A Christian who truly believes everything is God's plan does not believe there is such a thing as chance or an uncertain outcome since the outcome is always certain in God's mind. And since chance does not exist, poker can't possibly be defined as gambling.

A scientist who understands quantum theory knows that no event can ever be predicted with 100% percent accuracy so everything everywhere is always subject to chance to some extent and therefore there's no reason to single out poker as every single monetary transaction can be defined is gambling.

In between those two extremes, there's a continuum of opinions about how much skill and how much luck affect the games' outcome. The lottery is more gambling than poker. Investing in a US government bond is less gambling than poker (if USD is your currency). The ranking of poker and investing in the stock market on the gambling scale is highly debatable.
 
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tcummo

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Can we leave the bible and other archaic, superstitious, mythical beliefs out of the poker forum please. Educate yourself and get free from that malevolent, cruel,phychopathic,bullying, abrahamic god.
Grow up.
gl at the tables
 
BelgoSuisse

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Can we leave the bible and other archaic, superstitious, mythical beliefs out of the poker forum please.

Meh, you actually want your fishes to have superstitious, mythical beliefs, while you base your play on a proper understanding of reality. That's how you make money from playing them.

Not sure what is best. Should we educate the fishes or profit from them?

BTW, I have enormous respect for the people behind http://eternal-earthbound-pets.com/ . They clearly chose the second option... :D
 
WVHillbilly

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Your church doesn't mind if you gamble, as long as you win and give at least 10% you'll go straight to heaven.

It's losing gamblers that they have a problem with. That cuts into the bottom line.

Or something like that.
 
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RamdeeBen

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Or you are a bit daft yourself? People just take a larger perspective.

A Christian who truly believes everything is God's plan does not believe there is such a thing as chance or an uncertain outcome since the outcome is always certain in God's mind. And since chance does not exist, poker can't possibly be defined as gambling.

A scientist who understands quantum theory knows that no event can ever be predicted with 100% percent accuracy so everything everywhere is always subject to chance to some extent and therefore there's no reason to single out poker as every single monetary transaction can be defined is gambling.

In between those two extremes, there's a continuum of opinions about how much skill and how much luck affect the games' outcome. The lottery is more gambling than poker. Investing in a US government bond is less gambling than poker (if USD is your currency). The ranking of poker and investing in the stock market on the gambling scale is highly debatable.

How am I daft? lol. I mean lets be honest...what is daft about answering a question correctly for someone, sod the larger perspective. It's all just "ifs" "maybes" or lets be honest "nots" but we won't get into peoples delusional beliefs. I'm like the others, are just giving him a straight answer which is a FACT and done with.

I/We're stating facts, what on earth has other peoples beliefs got to do with it?. The OP question was "is poker gambling" The answer is Yes, poker IS gambling. No need for someone to go on about book stating what's right and what is wrong. I could just state my own beliefs on any matter, still no one is interested in all honestly. People want an answer to their question, so people should just answer with a fact and not dribble on about some crap said in a book. No offense intended but if I wanted to read about some fictional character who "created" this world, I would do so and not expect it on a thread about gambling..

Fact is, poker is gambling that is 100% true. How anyone can argue it, I don't know..it's common basic knowledge.
 
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BelgoSuisse

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what on earth has other peoples beliefs got to do with it?. The OP question was "is poker gambling" The answer is Yes, poker IS gambling.

I disagree. OP explicitly states that his question is asked within his belief system, so beliefs do have a lot to do with this thread.

And as I showed earlier, the answer to the "Is poker gambling ?" question can vary widely depending on your belief system: from "No, nothing is gambling, everything is god's will", to "Yes, but everything is gambling in a world of quantum mechanics", to "Sort of, but no more and no less than investing in the stock market".
 
dj11

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It should be pointed out here that most of the folks who are arguing here are not of the mind that poker is NOT gambling. We understand there is gamble in the game.

What we are arguing is that gambling, per se, should not be considered an evil, unless we include all forms of gambling, and that is a conceptual thing.

The original post was put in such a way that it looked as much like someone trolling for ammunition as it did anything else.

The notion of morals, and morality, begs the subtle difference between Ethics and Morals. So similar in so many ways, morals suggests a 'faith based' ethical system. And your faith based morals will be different from his/her faith based morals, sometimes profoundly different. Ethics will deal with the same issues for the most part, but tend to be more rational, practical approaches to those dilemma, often with the same solutions. When talking about the negative aspects of the Morals/Ethics issues, Immorality sounds so much more evil than Unethical. It is that brainwashing that irks many of us. :confused:

So, for example;

The Ultimate/Absolute poker issues a few years ago, where insiders had access to a program that showed them the hole cards of each player in a hand, is no different from a stock scam where a brokerage house conspires to make a stock look good in order to create a buzz and jack the price per share up so then can dump their substantial holdings in a worthless company on an unsuspecting public. Both scams create a lot of money for the perpetrator. Both are unethical, but the OP here would seem to want to consider one, the poker instance, as immoral, while not ascribing the same to the stock swindle. In both cases the insiders were out to con honest folk out of their money.
 
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cAPSLOCK

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Same here, assuming that by God himself you're referring to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. May his noodly apendage forever touch you.

My goodness Belgo. I believe in your own curmudgeonly Scrooge like way you have just blessed me.

And I do love Spaghetti.
 
Rekopro

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poker is gambling until you find out what's going on
 
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el cubico

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If someone asking me,poker should be next olimpic discipline
 
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cAPSLOCK

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Your church doesn't mind if you gamble, as long as you win and give at least 10% you'll go straight to heaven.

It's losing gamblers that they have a problem with. That cuts into the bottom line.

Or something like that.

It is easy and fun to mock the deeply held beliefs of another man if first you reduce them to a cartoon like cliche. But why stop there when you could also call his children ugly and retarded, and his wife fat.

You're missing value!
 
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I disagree. OP explicitly states that his question is asked within his belief system, so beliefs do have a lot to do with this thread.

And as I showed earlier, the answer to the "Is poker gambling ?" question can vary widely depending on your belief system: from "No, nothing is gambling, everything is god's will", to "Yes, but everything is gambling in a world of quantum mechanics", to "Sort of, but no more and no less than investing in the stock market".

Asked within his belief system? The question is, "is poker gambling" regardless of what sense or how or what beliefs you have, the answer is just yes poker IS gambling. It still doesn't change anything in anyway to what the question is.


If it is against his religion then he should stop poker now as no matter whichever way someone looks at it or tries to twist it, the fact still stands. Poker is gambling.

Poker and gambling CANNOT vary because of beliefs. Beliefs are beliefs and nothing is fact based within them where as my answer is FACT BASED. It's like me saying "poker is pure luck as it's my belief" Of course that would be my belief which I would be entitled too, however this is false as we know the fact that it ISN'T luck.

I don't understand why he would even ask the question based on "beliefs" as I have already stated, it doesn't matter what is believed or thought of. You can't get away from facts and the fact is, poker IS gambling.
 
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There was a time where "the earth is flat and rests at the center of the universe" was common basic knowledge. It didn't make it right.

The difference is, this wasn't proven hence the reason Christopher went out of his way to prove it. This was the belief at the time and people just caught on like, for example these bible preachers. Nothing is proven, all just hear say people just like to believe in something outside of this world. No facts. Probably unrealistic to really think it is true anyway.. Same with our "universe" and our lack of knowledge for other living things out there. We "think" it's possible just like the world was thought to be flat but like that, once life out there is proven it will become fact and so on. (If that is ever the case) I believe a hell of a lot more that the is life out there as opposed to some clown sat on a cloud but that's my opinion.

Common basic knowledge like many things in life are facts. If you gamble, if you're playing poker or betting on horses or football etcetc then the being a gambler it is basic knowledge what odds/probs/wagering all equate to one fact: GAMBLING

EDIT: In fact, thinking about it all. If it wasn't gambling, then why do we put money into a pot pre flop then fold post flop if needs be? We are just wasting out money. We gambled putting money in the pot we must sometimes later fold, so why do this? And yes for someone who might say "you can't predict the cards that come out next" This is true, so what the hell do you do? Quit playing? You can't control the cards so you're putting money in on what you think will be the best hand pre flop and while it may be the best hand, post flop it may well change to the worse hand. Thus meaning we gambled and lost our money...next time we might gamble and win money..
 
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Stu_Ungar

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Who cares?

OP says he is a Christian, then he should know the Christian Churches stance on gambling.

If he is unsure then he should consult a priest not an on-line poker forum.
 
BelgoSuisse

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Common basic knowledge like many things in life are facts. If you gamble, if you're playing poker or betting on horses or football etcetc then the being a gambler it is basic knowledge what odds/probs/wagering all equate to one fact: GAMBLING

Only when you define gambling in a way that allows both chance and skill/intent to affect the results. And as soon as you do that any monetary transaction becomes gambling since results are always at some level uncertain. And that voids the word gambling of its meaning.
 
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