Phil Ivey.

It seems like most people would easily put Phil Ivey as the best poker player there is. Seems like average players admire him the most. I do give a lot of respect to his game and agree that he is arguably the best player but I'm wondering what he does that makes him clearly better than other pros.

My personal fave is negreanu. He obvious having fun, shows the watchers he knows what he's talking about and gets his reads pretty damn close nearly every time (could be editing but whatever). Ivey is quiet and collects info and plays well but he's not doing anything that many of the pros do too. I can understand if you think negreanu, mouth, or helmuth are annoying but they get those same reads/plays. even the quiet ones like jesus or gordon or annie duke do things the same. I just don't get why Ivey seems to be hands down the best player, according to average players. Am I missing something about his game that puts him that much further than anyone?

Aggression

I think part of it is too, that its said he plays every game well. Many top-flight pros are specialists, or at best, only play a few different games. Ivey, from what I've heard is world-class in every game or nearly every game.

This would make sense if it wasn't what a lot of pro's do. I'm trying to understand what sets him apart in the eyes of the public. Since most pro's would probably be considered aggressive, what makes him different than the other pros?

This makes sense if it's true. I could see some of his admiration coming from a full complete poker game.

^ this. He crushes in pretty much every game, cash and tournaments, live and online. That's probably the biggest aspect.

What Oz said.

He's put there because of this and his obv name recognition. It also doesnt hurt that he is great reading. He was also the face of the biggest US market poker company for a while.

I guess a follow on from that too is his apparent willingness to play those games against anyone, anytime, for the highest stakes - it's not like he's crushing by only playing against whales.

First thing you're missing is: 'according to average players' < this comment is simply not true. Ivey is considered the best amongst his peers (the best think he's the best).
What else are you missing.... imo an avg. player won't even be able to see the things they're missing seeing (if you know what I mean).
What else... hmm... maybe his ability to adjust to opponents (but what do I know... I'm a donk)

Ivey is on a level with the best players in the world in every game, which is just remarkable.

No, no. It is true as I didn't say what his peers thought (since I don't know). the average player definitely thinks of Ivey as the best. Go to any micro table and just ask "Who's the best pro" and a majority will say Ivey. So my comment is simply true. If they come to that opinion by just getting a feel for what other pro's think and blindly accept that then fine that's where they get it from. That's completely understandable. The last part about adjusting to his opponents is sort of an answer since you're telling me something he does well, but there are tons of pros who do that and do it well so you obviously didn't understand the question. Thanks for trying.


To everyone saying it's because He plays every game very well and is willing to play anyone in each game seems like the best answer. Thanks guys.

I have read and heard many top players say exactly this.

You liked that better than the fact that his peers consider him to be the best?

lol you sound like a bit of a nob but here's the simple answer. What all the pros do well, he does better. It's not rocket science.

One of the reasons I decided to NOT enter the porn industry.

All that unemployment, and it would be my fault........

Exactly - to compare Ivey's agression to "other pros" - well it would make Hellmuth laugh.
To say the reason I'vey is so good is because he's good at all the games is like saying he's good because he's good.
He's good because he is scary - take the single top attribute of any pro and Ivey possesses it on at least an equal measure.
Chris Ferguson is considered the most impossible to read but I would maintain Ivey is every bit as hard to read - maybe more so when you add trying to put him on a range.
Ivey has all the practical applicable poker math skills of Bill Chen.
Ivey can read an opponent as well or better than Hellmuth or Negreanu.
Nerves of steel - there is no equal.
Get in your head - Tony G has nothing on Ivey.
Add to that the hype of poker commentators continually telling us he's the best in the world.
But having said that - some young guns are catching up. Ivey's rep, like Hellmuth and many others, is based on what poker was. Poker is now Dwan, Mercier, Lamb - there'll be a new sheriff in town in a few shart years and my money is on Mercier.

Yes I do like the answers that answer the question I asked. I asked "What make him better" your smug response is "duh the pro's said it" they didn't say what he does better? or why he does it better? or why you should blindly follow that opinion and not get anything from it. You answer "why is he better" with basically "he just is" So yes thanks to everyone who answered the question by telling me he is universally competitive. Looking through this board 9 times out of 10 your comments have some sort of sarcastic or smug remark that doesn't help anyone and makes you look like a d-bag.

Thank you for anwsering the question and not sounding like a smug jackass while doing it.

And this makes you look like........ what?

You dont have to agree, but you dont have to be a douche bag by calling ppl a douche bag....


Pot, kettle.. and all that......

Wasn't talking to you first of all. Paranoid much? Secondly, it wasn't a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. It was a smug response that didn't even attempt to answer the question. It may have inflated his own ego, I don't know. I just can't think of anything else his comment would accomplish. But way to ride on his coat tails like some lackey.


Theres is a definite divide on this forum. One side has most of the new posters and friendly regulars who actually use the forum for what it's intended to be for. The other is a cliquish smug side that doesn't contribute anything than raising their own post number. (Not saying if you have 1000's of posts you are smug and participate in the clique, just that the ones in the clique are pretty smug and think EVERYONE is below them) There's also those that seem like they want so badly to be in that clique but just aren't quite there. commenting with post that say no more than "Yeah! I would never be caught in that situation either" and other useless posts.

He knows what other players at the table think of him, they are scared, and he uses this to his advantage. Lots of famous pros claim that amateurs will go all out against them in tournaments just to have a story to tell in the games back home. This leads to a lot of bad beats and eventual pro knockouts. Ivey seems to be above this due to his intimidating image; I think this sets him apart.

Naw, man, I wasnt takin it personally. What I meant was, yea, its ok to think what you want. But dont toss the d-bag name around. That was pretty much it. You commented on someones tone then used this kinda comment. Your response woulda had a lot more merit had you not stooped to making this kinda name calling. Ya know???

Paranoid?? Me?? lol. no, but they still might be after me, who the fk knows...

Pro's are great at reading their opponents and outplaying them.

He is great at reading how these pro's would like to outplay him and outplays THEM.

On top of that, exactly what others have said above.. He is world class in many different variations of poker, he is considered by his peers to be the best. Also, considering the amount of bracelets and high stakes success at his age, he practically earns this title.

He will play anyone, anywhere, for any amount of money, is rarely outplayed, makes sick reads, and can never go broke no matter what game he chooses to play due to his great success.

I disagree on that first point - the fact that Ivey can beat every game isn't the same as saying he's "good because he's good".

Take the other players you mentioned - Dwan, Mercier and Lamb. They're excellent NLHE and PLO players and they're certainly aggressive (Dwan in particular may be even more so than Ivey in big bet games). But they don't play every game - which is why Ivey was willing to offer Dwan such insane odds on the HORSE cash game challenge last year that got killed by Black Friday (and may not have even happened anyway).

Actually, I think that challenge really sums it up: Ivey was laying Dwan something like 25:1 on a long-term series of HORSE cash games and it wasn't a snapcall for Dwan. He acknowledged that Ivey is a huge favourite in all those games.

The question that was asked at the top of the thread was why so many people consider Phil Ivey to be the best poker player in the world. Poker is more than just NLHE and PLO - if you asked who the best NLHE player is in the world it'd probably be a much closer decision and while Ivey would certainly be near the top, he won't necessarily be number one on everybody's lists. But when you broaden it to poker in general, which encompasses all games and all formats, the list of potential number ones gets a lot smaller until Ivey is about the only one left.

FWIW if I had to pick a runner up it'd be Barry Greenstein.

I agree on negreanu. He's one of my the guys that I study and learn from. Ivey is over rated....

Thanks, Oz, for expanding so well upon the simple point I made earlier in this thread. Ivey is widely recognized as among the top pros in every game. He isn't a specialist as so many of todays top pros are. His challenge to Dwan highlights that point.

I think many players today discount most of the other games and act like no-limit hold'em and (maybe) PLO are all there is to the poker world. In some ways this is understandable, what with TV coverage focusing exclusively on NLHE, but once you get beyond that and start looking into other games as well you'll quickly find that Ivey is at or near the top of the list of best players in any game you care to mention.

I getcha Oz - good point - it's hard to hit all sides of an argument in a post you're trying to do in under 2 minutes. But I still think it's like saying he's "good because he's good".
Like Kurt Warner was good because he excelled in AFL and NFL - two different games with many similiar aspects. It doesn't define what made him good.
I would like to hear from you (not a challenge, just would respect your view) on what aspects of Ivey make him so good? We know he's good, feared, respected in all the games - why is that? And "because he's good at all of them" does not really answer why. MORE BELOW

Actually, this could get pretty interesting. I mean, for example, exactly what skills are most important to make someone world-class in, say, Stud v. Hold'em v. Razz, v...... You get the idea. Or, put another way, what skills does Ivey have that make him a top Razz player? A top Stud player, etc, etc....

I think Ivy is good because of that baby poker face he has......

And the psyco eyes when he's starin' you down...

I have my own opinions/thoughts on why I think Ivey is the best (many have been mentioned above already), but when I hear many of his peers (the top pros) saying that he is the best, this has merit to me as I have a feeling they have more of a clue what they're talking about than I do. (< this is why I stated that... not for this reason > 'duh... the pros say he is').

So Dwan, Mercier, and Lamb are right behind Ivey because they've had one or two good years? Strong tournament placings? Mind you Ivey had disappeared from the game for awhile due to Black Friday and continued his assassination of the game and it's players when he came back.

The only one who you could put in that class is Tom Dwan if you would really like to make an argument, and even he has to win some bracelets and do this for years before he's considered in the league of Ivey.

If you would like to see what Ivey thinks of Mercier's great skill btw.. Check out High Stakes Poker when Mercier trys to pull a bluff with his respective $200,000 stack, that I respect a lot btw, on Ivey and it takes him no longer than a minute to make the call with a mediocre hand.

P.S. if you really wonder why he is feared and respected, try not fearing or respecting the man and see how your play works out against him. Seriously, I dare you.

Dwan had his own near heart attack confrontation with Ivey when he pulled off one of the biggest bluffs ever on High Stakes Poker, and as he bets near $270,000 on the river of a $350,000 or so pot (making it $620,000 or so) against him Ivey sits there for near 5 minutes contemplating what would be the most brilliant call of all time with a pair of 6's on a board with K J 10 2 6. He ends up mucking, but even the fact he was thinking so hard is brilliant to us all.

If you want to give anyone the title of greatest poker player, or even the greatest NLHE poker player in the world, they'll have to take it from Ivey first. He'll play them anytime and anywhere, his preference at least $50,000/$100,000 blinds, be sure to bring your piggy bank.

Those are some solid results in mixed game tournaments, sure. Don't ignore the fact though that Dwan was entering every tournament in a desperate bid to ship a big prop bet, so it was inevitable he was going to run deep in something. And I'm not saying these guys can't play mixed games - I'm just saying that NLHE and PLO are far and away their best games. They're arguably among the top players in the world in big bet games, but when it comes to all the others they wouldn't even be close. Still good, but nowhere near the best. (You missed a triple-draw final table for Mercier in 2011, BTW - he finished 6th)

Ivey didn't play the WSOP this year, but take his previous two years: two bracelets in 2009 (2-7NL and O8/Stud8) and another one in 2010 (HORSE). Where the guys mentioned above make final tables, Ivey closes and wins them. Put simply, he's still leagues ahead of Lamb, Mercier, Dwan et al when it comes to games outside of NLHE and PLO and they would almost certainly tell you that themselves. Dwan at the very least has said it in relation to the HORSE cash game challenge I mentioned above.

As to what makes Ivey so good at all these games, I don't claim to be smart enough or have anywhere near enough information to give a definitive answer - and the reality is there just isn't a single, neat and tidy answer. It'll be a multitude of factors all coming together.

I've read comments from a lot of top players to the effect that Ivey adjusts to his opponents better than anyone out there, and that would certainly be a big part of it. I know Barry Greenstein has commented before that Ivey spends a lot of time studying his opponents. Those are just two things though, and the reality is that he'll be the player who puts all the required skills together best: reading people, putting them on ranges, bet sizing, controlled aggression, adjusting, learning and developing away from the table, and more besides. The thing that makes him the best of the best is that he does everything well and he doesn't really have any leaks (when it comes to poker, at least - craps may be a different story).

Yea i like that episode when Phil looked like he really was considering calling that overbet by Durrr with a pair of 6 only.....remember him saying that would be a sick call.....incredible instants to smell that someting might be up with Dwan on that hand.
I also like a couple others....that are really impressive some my other favs are
1) Ivey 10,8 s 5bets Dwan off his 87o preflop
2) Ivey (Qh,8h) 5bets Jackson off (6,5o) on the flop with a 7c,Jc,Jh flop.

Thanks for the Mercier add -
I do reiterate - "I do acknowledge that these guys are the up and comers who have yet to arrive near the status of Phil Ivey, but they are coming."
So if anyone is looking for me to argue the point that Ivey is not clearly the best - hold your breath. I'm just saying there are some guys coming up (not next year or the year after or the year after that) who seem to take seriously having a complete game. No doubt Ivey is their inspiration and a demi-god to them.
And you're right - if Ivey plays last years WSOP his stats probably would look like all of theirs combined, or better.
And yeah, Ivey pwns Dwan (and doesn't seem to like him one bit either).
Ivey's challenge is familiar - staying on top when a new hungry breed is prowling their way up the mountain. History tells us records are made to be broken and the best will be supplanted. The hard part is a lot of these new guys run in packs and are helping each other become better. Who is helping Ivey?