Tournament Late Registration:

[fletchdad]

I would not consider doing that too often, it is a form of cheating called collusion and Full Tilt will kick you off and keep your money.

As far as LR goes, It does not really hurt you, but at the same time it does not help you to register late. Just bc you went through a couple more blinds then them (When the blinds are at 15/30, LR usually closes at the 2nd level). I often register late in the Daily Dollar to cut down on the looong amounts of time.

I understand what you are saying here, but would like to know what others think about this. I done see it as collusion based on OPs choice of wording. It doesent sound like they are chating while playing, tho I would guess there is chat going on after the game, so his coach can go through some hand analysis with him. He said he was nervous playing against his coach, so I suspect softplaying is not going on. OP may take a re raise from his coach as a danger signal, as he respects the coaches play, but since I believe they are playing the same games so his coach can spot some leaks, than I suspect his coach would play rough against him as against any other player. Hes not a good coach if he does not exploit weak play and point it out after the game. Since they obviously are familiar with each others playing style, they will make decisions accordingly, but is this not just poker, keeping tabs on how someone plays and then making your plays based on your knowledge? As long as no comunication or softplaying or any other breach of rules is happening, is this still a form of breach of ettiquet? I dont see it so yet.

Sorry for the hijack, I will get back on to OPs point - or not as I dont play LR games at all, but am now from this thread a bit piqued to see what they are like. I have always avoided them since I didnt know anything about them, but gained a bit of knowledge here. It seems most late comers - from what I have read here, and correct me if this is not true - are better players who dont like stacking of against spewtards, ( I do lol) with the occasional spewtard late as well. I would personally want to start on time to have a stack edge against the better LR players. I have read in other threads that the oppinions on LR games go both ways. I will try to do some and check back here. And I would view a regular starting stack as a disadvantage as the blinds are higher, would that not mean actually starting at a slight to large disadvantage equity wise?

 

[xXSmuggla]

Fletchdad, I agree with you that obviously the OP is not trying to gain bankroll during this session, he is doing it for educational purposes. Personally I think this is morally right....but at the same time it IS collusion. I was just warning the OP so his BR does not get taken by Full Tilt.

From Full Tilt Policy

"We take cheating very seriously and will suspend the accounts of any player who is found to be sharing hole card information during a hand, “chip dumping” during ring games or tournaments, or engaging in any other form of cheating."

 

[zjohnzzz]

not a big fan of late registration, dont play pokerstars much anymore,since they lengthened the time. just because of the sheer numbers of them.

 

[Zorba]

I would not consider doing that too often, it is a form of cheating called collusion and Full Tilt will kick you off and keep your money.

Just because they played in the same game 3 times in the last 5 days does not make it coluding, if that was colluding all regular CCer's that play the CC buy in games would be colluding.
It all depends on how the ppl that know each other play against each other, I.E. Soft playing, Chip Dumping, and other forms of collusion.

 

[xXSmuggla]

Just because they played in the same game 3 times in the last 5 days does not make it coluding, if that was colluding all regular CCer's that play the CC buy in games would be colluding.
It all depends on how the ppl that know each other play against each other, I.E. Soft playing, Chip Dumping, and other forms of collusion.

CC buy-in games are private, so I believe the terms are a little bit different in that situation. I have heard multiple stories in which two players enter the same tourny or SNG for friendly competition (no intention of colluding), only to have an e-mail the next week saying their acct has been frozen and funds withdrawn. Calm down Zorba, as I said before I'm not arguing the definition on colluding or any of that. I'm simply warning a fellow CCer of the danger of having his BR frozen.

 

[Poker Orifice]

heh? Granted it took me a while to come around on this but you want people late regging.

First off, by registering on time for the start you have a shot at the idiots who stack off early. Late reg players miss out on this. If you can catch a great deck early and double or triple you are in great shape obviously, but in ridiculous shape compared to the late registering players who don't geta shot at some of the early spew.

How is it a bad thing if players register 45 minutes in adding equity to the prize pool, but maybe have only 30bb max to play with? They are at a significant disadvantage for not having had the chance to wait for some hands early. This is even better if you have built a stack - you can bust them selectively- while they can't bust you. Essentially, especially with shallower structures, people are not giving themselves much of a chance regging late - and might even be essentially dead money in a turbo bc there stack is so small relative to the blinds.

This is a trend that is only going to expand anyway. Bodog added it not that long ago (which i hated lol) because they were overlaying their guarantees so much. Now the late registrants tend to bring it close to or over the guarantee (sunday 100k excluded). On stars and tilt, late registrations tend to rocket the prize pools way above the guarantee - and a bigger prize pool is never bad.

The only network that I know there is left that doesn't allow any late reg (USA friendly that is) is Merge. I'm happy about it there because they give away so much overlay in everything it's ridiculous! Other then a sweet overlay though...I don't see the problem.

agree with all of this ^ ... 100%
(only other time I don't like to see late reg. (aside from big overlay MTTs.. which incidentally some of FT's $26donkaments have been lately).. is for Satellites).

As far as thinking it can be advantageous to 'late reg'???? This I find amusing/funny, etc.

 

[Zorba]

CC buy-in games are private, so I believe the terms are a little bit different in that situation. I have heard multiple stories in which two players enter the same tourny or SNG for friendly competition (no intention of colluding), only to have an e-mail the next week saying their acct has been frozen and funds withdrawn. Calm down Zorba, as I said before I'm not arguing the definition on colluding or any of that. I'm simply warning a fellow CCer of the danger of having his BR frozen.

lol, I am calm, I never stress, just trying to point out that just because he plays in the same games as his coach that it is not collusion, collusion depends on how you play with the person that you regularly play with.

Also when it comes to collusion it doesn't matter if the games are private or not, I'll give you another example, there is a regular group of us here that do what we call an Invasion (you may have seen a thread or 3) where the regular group all get into the same $2.20 Stars SnG, often we sit at the same table as we dont have any controll of that, if I can knock out one of the others I will, but if I have the chance to knock them out and I don't take it then that is soft playing and against the rules, or if we share info during the game or chip dump or other things so each of us can get deeper into the tourney then that is collusion.

 

[Zorba]

That is impossible, you must have looked at it wrong because for simplicity sake let's say 10 people buy in and have 1000 chips each. If one busts out the average stack is now higher because the same amount of chips are being split amonst more people. The new average would be about 1,133 and you would enter with just 1,000 and the more people that bust out the more the average stack goes up.

OK possible I did see it wrong (personally I don't think I did) it was too long ago to remember clearly, but as for your above example, you haven't taken into account all the other ppl that are registering late.

 

[PlayerPlayerAA]

This is the way I look at it, when I sat down, at the beginning of the tournament, the average stack was $1500. A latecomer steps in like 40 minutes into the tiurnament, he starts with $1500 and the average chip stack is $1850. Thanks for coming in. Every little bit of advantage helps !
I wonder if I ever make any sense.

 

[Slow Roll Poker]

I'm with you Boston. I don't like late registration lots of players just register during late registration. You register before the tournament starts, more than likely looking at the payouts, you think the payouts are good at first, then the tournament starts and the payouts start getting worse than what you wanted. Now you wish you didn't register. But, it's too late because the tournament has already started. This is how I feel every time I'm in a tournament that has late registration, people just register after the tournament has started.

I also think it's a little unfair. You have been playing for 5-8 minutes or so and you have lost chips already and let's say you are down to 1200 chips, now new people just come in and start with 1500 while everyone else at the table has already lost/won chips. That doesn't seem too fair to me. I mean, yes, you start with the same amount of chips, but they still get a better chance than you do because they just got to the table while you have been there for the last 5 minutes or so.

I just wish there was no late registration. Its really no use in my opinion. It ruins the game.

 

[Zorba]

I also think it's a little unfair. You have been playing for 5-8 minutes or so and you have lost chips already and let's say you are down to 1200 chips, now new people just come in and start with 1500 while everyone else at the table has already lost/won chips. That doesn't seem too fair to me. I mean, yes, you start with the same amount of chips, but they still get a better chance than you do because they just got to the table while you have been there for the last 5 minutes or so.

I just wish there was no late registration. Its really no use in my opinion. It ruins the game.

I'm guessing that if you were ahead on chips you would think that it is fair.

How do they get a better chance, when you have seen more hands than they have.

 

[Slow Roll Poker]

I'm guessing that if you were ahead on chips you would think that it is fair.

How do they get a better chance, when you have seen more hands than they have.

Nope, I still think that's unfair to them instead of me. Because if I was in their situation, I think it would be a little unfair. I pretend like I'm in their shoes. And I don't think they have a better chance because you've seen more hands, I think they would have a better chance if you have lost some chips before they got to your table. But if you have more than 1500 chips, you have a better chance than them.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Nope, I still think that's unfair to them instead of me. Because if I was in their situation, I think it would be a little unfair. I pretend like I'm in their shoes. And I don't think they have a better chance because you've seen more hands, I think they would have a better chance if you have lost some chips before they got to your table. But if you have more than 1500 chips, you have a better chance than them.

I disagree.
You have a better oppurtunity playing while the blinds are lower & playing against all the overly loose donkeys who seem to want to limp/call anytime they've committed anything to the pot. Being deeperstacked when blinds are smaller, you can play speculative hands in position that can potentially win large pots (ie. set-mining, SC's, etc.).

 

[Poker Orifice]

Um.. no. This would be 'not true'. Why would a better player be stacking off vs a spewtard & getting their chips in bad?
The advantage of playing deeperstacked in early levels vs the over-aggro donks is that 'the better player should have an advantage, as donkeys will often call off a huge chunk of their stack, not being capable of letting go of TPTK & overpr. type hands,.. even TPwK at times).
Here's an example from today's MSOP#3
Villain in eMP limps (A6s), I call w 4-4 (passive table preflop so far, not overly concerned about getting re-raised & if I am, & am able to close out the action with another caller... I will call as well.. AS LONG AS it's not for more than ~1/15th of my stack...as generally I will need odds of 15:1 to mke set-mining profitable). I call.... SB completes & BB checks their option.
Flop is A-6-4... it's checked to villain & they lead out with a min. bet... I'm raising here 100% of the time, there's an Ace on the flop & am sure I will get action from any donkey holding AXs type hands, or Weak Ax hands in general which they seem to often hold, will overvalue & call off a bunch of chips (if there's no Ace.. not likely I will get action anyways).. also.. it's a two-tone flop.. nobody draws for free here. {I raise overpot}
Villain 'MinRe-Raises" me to ~460... I ship 2,500 in.. & they SNAPCALL (dont' even think about what hand I'm on.. OR what hand I'm putting them on).
Villain gets their stack in as ~ 85/15 dog... perfect spot!!
So he hits an Ace on the river & I'm out. Doesn't matter. Just an example of why it's good to get in vs. these donkeys in early levels.
(yah villain was a donk.. although their play wasn't 'terrible'... ROI -87% is pretty terrible though (for MTT).. and ROI-46% for sng.. not so hot either (along with vp$ip ~62%... mind you not many hands).

 

[Zorba]

I disagree.
You have a better oppurtunity playing while the blinds are lower & playing against all the overly loose donkeys who seem to want to limp/call anytime they've committed anything to the pot. Being deeperstacked when blinds are smaller, you can play speculative hands in position that can potentially win large pots (ie. set-mining, SC's, etc.).

Poker Orifice through his exceptional wisdom has replied to this, so the only thing I can say is,
+1

 

[doops]

I'm with you Boston. I don't like late registration lots of players just register during late registration. You register before the tournament starts, more than likely looking at the payouts, you think the payouts are good at first, then the tournament starts and the payouts start getting worse than what you wanted. Now you wish you didn't register. But, it's too late because the tournament has already started. This is how I feel every time I'm in a tournament that has late registration, people just register after the tournament has started.

I also think it's a little unfair. You have been playing for 5-8 minutes or so and you have lost chips already and let's say you are down to 1200 chips, now new people just come in and start with 1500 while everyone else at the table has already lost/won chips. That doesn't seem too fair to me. I mean, yes, you start with the same amount of chips, but they still get a better chance than you do because they just got to the table while you have been there for the last 5 minutes or so.

I just wish there was no late registration. Its really no use in my opinion. It ruins the game.

I do understand your point. I used to join a tournament that looked like it was going to pay out really well (say, a min # of winners in a satellite that was, at the time the tourney started, much better than 10%), but then the late folks showed up and the tourney turned into more of a normal tourney instead of a shoo-in. Sad when that happens, but ... you do get used to it.

Sometimes, the tourney stays pretty easy -- yesterday, one of my fave sats, which has 300 seats guaranteed and, at worst, has about a 20% payout, only had 900 entrants. That never happens -- what a break! (OK, I failed at the main tourney, but that's another story and I try not to whine.)

Anyway, learn to expect the late reggers, and, if you are on time, build that stack while the donks are bleeding off their chips. You only care about the latecomers when you have lost chips -- you don't care if you have already doubled or tripled up.

As for regging late yourself -- 5-10 minutes is not a disaster. Regging after the tournament has been running for 30 minutes+ is dopey. Your starting chip stack is far below average by that point.

 

[villajoseph]

im with slow roll yes he may have built his stack by taking out a couple of players or "donks" and because of in experience the late reg. player will end up with his chips all he did was keep the late reg. player from being sucked out by a bad beat

 

[Grinder101]

To say that later registration is unfair is to say you don't have an edge over the other players at the start of the tourney, which makes you a losing player, which means that you shouldn't be complaining about losing.

 

[Slow Roll Poker]

I do understand your point. I used to join a tournament that looked like it was going to pay out really well (say, a min # of winners in a satellite that was, at the time the tourney started, much better than 10%), but then the late folks showed up and the tourney turned into more of a normal tourney instead of a shoo-in. Sad when that happens, but ... you do get used to it.

Sometimes, the tourney stays pretty easy -- yesterday, one of my fave sats, which has 300 seats guaranteed and, at worst, has about a 20% payout, only had 900 entrants. That never happens -- what a break! (OK, I failed at the main tourney, but that's another story and I try not to whine.)

Anyway, learn to expect the late reggers, and, if you are on time, build that stack while the donks are bleeding off their chips. You only care about the latecomers when you have lost chips -- you don't care if you have already doubled or tripled up.

As for regging late yourself -- 5-10 minutes is not a disaster. Regging after the tournament has been running for 30 minutes+ is dopey. Your starting chip stack is far below average by that point.

Thanks for understanding my point. And yep, you think you got a tourney that looks really nice at first, you think you will make some money in this tourney and there aren't too many entrants so you join the tourney. Next thing you know, after 10 minutes of late registration, the tourney has grown a couple hundred people, now you wish you didn't register. That's why I don't feel comfortable playing tourneys, for that very reason. Every time I've played in a tourney with late registration, the tournament has grown in size and sometimes even doubles during late registration. Its kinda frustrating sometimes when you think you will win some money, when the number of entrants has grown so much you don't think you will make it ITM anymore. Its just useless, I don't see why they even have late registration.

 

[Slow Roll Poker]

im with slow roll yes he may have built his stack by taking out a couple of players or "donks" and because of in experience the late reg. player will end up with his chips all he did was keep the late reg. player from being sucked out by a bad beat

Yep, you got that right villajoseph. I don't think that late registration is the most "fair" thing that the poker sites have allowed. I don't mean to sound like a sore loser or anything, but I think that the late registration thing is useless. I just think that people get in after late registration to wait to see how big the prize pool will get after the tourney has already started, and that's why I think it's cheating. I honestly don't think that people get in the tourney late because they find the tourney late, I think it's because they just want to wait to see how the prize pool ends up. I think that they should just have to register before the tourney starts to make it all fair.

 

[jh1spartanfan]

Late registration is to make sure that the poker sites get as many people as possible into their games. It is fair. It's not like these people are late registering into the money. You have the oppurtunity to see more hands than them and build up a chip stack, while they aren't playing. Even if you lose chips that doesn't make it unfair, they are starting with the same number you did, they can just as easily lose their chips. The one thing that I don't like about late registration is that you look at a tournament and see that their are x number of players in it and you like that number so you register and by the end of late registration there is y number of players which you don't like. This goes away the more you play because you can sort of estimate how many players are going to be in a tournament before you register, i.e. I've played the daily dollar a few times the first time I registered an there was like 5000 people and by the end there was like 8500 people. The next time I played it was the same situation, so now if I play the daily dollar I don't look at as if I' playing a 5000 person tournament I know there will be 8500 people in it, or around there.

 

[Slow Roll Poker]

Late registration is to make sure that the poker sites get as many people as possible into their games. It is fair. It's not like these people are late registering into the money. You have the oppurtunity to see more hands than them and build up a chip stack, while they aren't playing. Even if you lose chips that doesn't make it unfair, they are starting with the same number you did, they can just as easily lose their chips. The one thing that I don't like about late registration is that you look at a tournament and see that their are x number of players in it and you like that number so you register and by the end of late registration there is y number of players which you don't like. This goes away the more you play because you can sort of estimate how many players are going to be in a tournament before you register, i.e. I've played the daily dollar a few times the first time I registered an there was like 5000 people and by the end there was like 8500 people. The next time I played it was the same situation, so now if I play the daily dollar I don't look at as if I' playing a 5000 person tournament I know there will be 8500 people in it, or around there.

That's one thing that I disagree about. I don't think it's fair at all to wait until the tournament starts and wait to see how big the prize pool gets and how many entrants the tournament will get to see if you should play it or not, I think you should have to play when the tournament starts, or don't play at all. It just seems more fair that way to me. When you find a tournament to play, and you join in, the late registers ruin your game thinking you cannot win it now because the number of entrants has changed so much. That's just one thing I wish wasn't available to players, late registration. It's useless in my opinion.

 

[Misofer]

I think it depends on each situation. For once, there's the guy who didn't have the time to join at the time of the tournament hence the late reg., and the guys who do it on purpose to gain some some sort of "advantage".

People who registered on time for would always have more advantage than the guys who late reg. just because they have seen more hands, sure you can always lose a big stack of chips or even get eliminated, but it all goes down on how you play your HANDS. Late reg. people would almost all the time wait for a premium hand and go all in with the hope to double up.

 

[Poker Orifice]

As for regging late yourself -- 5-10 minutes is not a disaster. Regging after the tournament has been running for 30 minutes+ is dopey. Your starting chip stack is far below average by that point.[/quote]

I agree with what you've said except for this last statement.
I really don't think that regging 30mins. after a tourney starts is dopey at all (unless it's a 1500chip stack turbo obviously.. or probably any 1500chip tourney as I rarely play any of those anyways).
If you're below avg. chipstack I don't think that has any huge relevance. One just needs to alter their play according to the size of their chipstack & the other chipstacks on their table.
I've actually had my best results this month after taking a badbeat in early levels (ie. getting it in as a 9to1 fav. with a set on flop, vs. overpr.), in one I was left with 239chips & came back & took 1st place (sure I was at a disadvantage obviously.. BUT this is an extreme example.. but also an example of how one just needs to alter their play based on chipstacks).

Incidentally, the last CC Fulltilt Freeroll I won, I missed the first hour of play, sat in with 540 chips & ended up taking 1st place.
Carbon CC buyin this past week... same thing.. badbeat in early levels, came back & won it.

In MSOP5 today, I got it in vs. 30bb stack midlevels with TPTK AQs.. got all of donkeys chips in the middle with him on Q9.. he hits a 9 (2outer) on river, leaving me crippled with <10bb's. (1,150chips)... 4hrs. later I had 20,000+chips sitting in good shape (yah yah yah.. I went out on two more hands... but that's besides the point, lol).
MSOP1 was same thing... as was DoubleDeuce (I didn't avoid the donking in early levels.. BUT I did manage to get villain to get all of their chips in as a HUGE DOG...something that is a bit harder to do after 1st break.... although not always.. but for sure not as simple).

For those thinking you're at a disadvantage by Late regg'rs joining the tourney, I'd have to strongly agree with Grinder01.... how could you be at a disadvantage unless you just don't have an edge over the field?

I can relate to seeing the size of playing fields (# of entrants) & hoping/wanting to make it ITM (I used to actually prefer the $28Kguar. on Fulltilt because it was the only $26mtt that paid out top20% instead of top 10-15% like all the rest). Work on your game, or consider playing the 180's (reg. blinds.... 'not' turbos) and you won't have to worry about the huge fields with late reg.

.... bit of a brag hi-jack imo... lol

 

[Slow Roll Poker]

I think it depends on each situation. For once, there's the guy who didn't have the time to join at the time of the tournament hence the late reg., and the guys who do it on purpose to gain some some sort of "advantage".

People who registered on time for would always have more advantage than the guys who late reg. just because they have seen more hands, sure you can always lose a big stack of chips or even get eliminated, but it all goes down on how you play your HANDS. Late reg. people would almost all the time wait for a premium hand and go all in with the hope to double up.

I agree with the "for once" when you said that a person didn't have the time to join in the tournament, because that hardly happens. It happens the most with people wanting to gain an advantage. But, it's not really always an advantage, it could be a disadvantage if the people that registered before the tournament started have a stack of 3k because he/she doubled up. It's still their fault, but they now have a smaller stack than some people.

I'm thinking differently on the second part of your post. The people that register on time don't have the advantage, there are no advantages with the registering on time, the advantages go to the late registered players because they get a fresh new stack while some others have already lost chips. I just think that late registration is useless, and that all players that want to play the tournament register before the tournament starts, and all stacks start at 1500 at the same time and not at different times.