darkassassin89
Legend
Silver Level
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/learning-poker-57/i-am-sick-losing-im-starting-187879/
hahaha here it is my rant of pissed off ness
hahaha here it is my rant of pissed off ness
I do understand not wanting to re-deposit.
I doubt you do because...
Here's where I have a question though.... what is it that you're hoping to learn from the play chip games? I mean if you think you can be a winning player in the micros then to me it makes full sense to just deposit a small sum of money & work on the areas you need to focus on (even if that means 'tilt management' &/or BRM).
In a perfect world that's how it should be, but this world is far from perfect and it doesn't work that way because we are people and not robots. Most poker players simply don't have the will power to implement your strategy seeing as there is a negative past associated with depositing such a small amount trying to chase a memory of what once was.
If he were to take your route then once bad variance hit he'd start to glance at his measly bankroll in comparison to the one he once had and all sorts of emotions would set in. Doubt, anger, frustration, self loathing (feeling like a loser for even attempting this) and above all a sense of urgency.
Now, he's making bad decisions as his confidence starts to wither away and his game suffers. Before you know it he's deposited again and the cycle continues. He needs to break the cycle! This is the much more likely outcome resulting from a small redeposit for most people.
What I'm getting at is.... the 'learning process' while playing poker is a never-ending process BUT I think if you were to spend time in the playchip games (&/or reg. freerolls) they'll just stunt your growth as a player (kinda like they'll be a waste of time... because there's nothing we're really learning while playing them... stagnating to a degree). And if anything, one can pick up alot of bad habits from them (even if one is making the effort to re-adjust when making the move back to real money micro tables).
The main priority of any poker player should be to improve their will power. In the end this is what separates the successful players from the degenerates. Come to think of it, Poker After Dark's latest commercial illustrates this pretty damn well.
It takes a tremendous amount of will power to not only accumulate 20 million play money chips, but to do it in a timely fashion and actually stay the course as opposed to calling it quits once you've reached 5-10 million. On the other hand you might hit 20 million, but it'll cost you 2 months because you (to quote you), "develop bad habits" and stop playing poker with the proper fundamentals along the way when the suck outs start to sting. This is contributed to lack of will power.
Most people who play for real money (SNG's, MTT's & Cash Games) say they will wait until they have 'x' buy in's before they move up to 'y' limit, but usually move up to 'y' limit well before they actually have 'x' buy ins because they lack the will power to overcome the sense of urgency.
Ironically enough, the only way to ever earn 20 million play chips in the shortest amount of time is to have the will power to be patient and overcome that sense of urgency. The same applies when playing for real money. People in positions like OP and myself who take the play chips route attach value to our play chips, which is what I think most with your view of play money overlook, and thus further improve the fundamentals of their game (will power) while gaining confidence.
While the game does get tougher, as the limits grow higher, the goal is always the same and that is to beat the game. At 2NL there is very little fold equity, so it's best not to bluff most of the time. Thus, there's really nothing to learn except patience and will power to get to higher limits where you can improve your game. The same applies with play money. In other words, according to you (though unbeknownst to you), you are wasting your time playing at 2NL the same way you would be wasting your time playing with play money.
The difference between 2NL and play money is that it consistently only takes a couple of weeks to make 20 million chips or $80 because the games are so soft while just as much will power is required. Try that at 2NL while playing ABC without having a million tables open.
I find this happening for myself a bit, when I spend time on some sites where I have a small bankroll (I have a few sites that I've ground up from a freeroll cash)... 10-tabling 2nl one day & then attempting to play a $109 freezeout the next (did this last week & went out on the first hand I played in a deepstacked Sun.Tourney, lol).... just kinda screws me up a bit... it takes me out of my groove. (not sure if I'm getting my point across at all???).
Case and point.
Personally I think you'd be far better off to just put down any kind of small deposit (even if it's just $25), & then attempting to grind it up from there. (oh yah... & of course 'go for the final table in the CC Freerolls!!!)
In the end, if you don't have the will power to; reach 20 million chips, not develop bad habits in the process, learn respect for discipline, bankroll management and patience all in a timely fashion (which is inevitable if your will power has improved) then you are shooting yourself in the foot by making a small redeposit considering what once was. The entire point of play money is to practice and the OP along with myself realize we need to practice and develop our will power. Nothing wrong with the CC freerolls though.
GL on the journey!
PattyR- Yes it isn't easy, but it's probably a little bit better than free rolling. Especially these days considering the 7,500 entrants to the 45 person pay out, along with the amount of hours taken to get to that point.
^^ Both of you made good points in your posts. I agree with the fact that bad habits can be developed playing games such as this, but I mentioned in one of my posts that I will do my best to not acquire these habits. I also agree with pretty much everything live one said in the above post. I think you understand well due to being in this spot.
Now to clear things up I am no longer free rolling/ playing play chips as Jjbish offered to stake me $10 in this post. He is extremely kind for doing so and I thank him again! I am playing .01/.02 NL and will continue to use proper BR management to rebuild. I will update this thread every day to tell everyone how I am doing.
Currently at $16.40
Obviously don't play the public freerolls. Why not play the cardschat ones?
Or just deposit 20 bucks and play daily dollar satellites. And if you can't afford to deposit $20, then quit poker until you're not poor.
Playing with play chips is just ridiculous. Not only is it an insultingly bad waste of time, it will also more than likely have a negative effect on your game because the play is just so dreadful.
*EDIT*
my bad didn't read past the OP and first few responses
Well considering you only have 8 buyins you are already breaking BR management. The only thing you can play is DD sats, if you want to do this properly from the start. Otherwise you're just going to be making another one of these threads in a month...
I used to constantly load on 10/20 dollars to sites when I started out. These aren't proper bankrolls. Any sort of swing can wipe a large majority of it out, and you'll just tilt off the rest again. I don't know if you're a student/working/unemployed, but if you want to take it seriously save at least $60-80 so you have a proper bankroll from the outset, and spend time studying and reading the HA section in the meantime. I don't mean to sound like a pr1ck but speaking from experience and being in your situation many times, depositing a proper bankroll was the best thing I ever did. It meant I wasn't checking my balance every hand because an 80/20 could wipe out 20% of my bankroll.
Good luck if you decide to keep ploughing on, but the time it takes to get up to ~$50/~$100 is not worth it imo.
This is so cool. Awesome thing you're doing, man:congrats:. OP, good luck with the next run, play well and keep us posted.To give you a lil hope maybe?
I started with $0 and gained my initial BR the old fashioned freeroll way back when it wasn't quite as daunting. From there I have had 4 "real" BR's playing over rolled as hi as 2-4 plo. Each time I've had to cash it out due to life happens. But each time I had $5 to $ 25 left and started over. in fact now I'm at the micro's again . But if I want to continue to play I have to grow it myself.
As sickening, and disheartening, as it is. It happens! You are not the first or the last. But have you learned the way so that it is "your" last time?
I will spot you $10 on stars to get you going again if you PM me your stars name and city ( as long as you have a clean history. hate to get my acct closed, just being safe). And you show you will be smart with it.
BUT I expect $10 back in the future after you have rebuilt your roll. Nothing is free
...depositing a proper bankroll was the best thing I ever did. It meant I wasn't checking my balance every hand because an 80/20 could wipe out 20% of my bankroll.
Good luck if you decide to keep ploughing on, but the time it takes to get up to ~$50/~$100 is not worth it imo.
Pull it together. Wipe the blood off your butt, pull your pants up and get back out there.
Its the only solution.
Not tring to say anything out of the way but a few weeks ago you started a thread about taking shots outside(proper bm).I think this is a end result of that type of thinking.Don't get me wrong bm is by FAR FAR my worst part of poker,but i do not think you'll get over this problem.Because i am the same way an i still have not over come this.Much luck to ya though an keep this one updated unlike the other please.^^ Both of you made good points in your posts. I agree with the fact that bad habits can be developed playing games such as this, but I mentioned in one of my posts that I will do my best to not acquire these habits. I also agree with pretty much everything live one said in the above post. I think you understand well due to being in this spot.
Now to clear things up I am no longer free rolling/ playing play chips as Jjbish offered to stake me $10 in this post. He is extremely kind for doing so and I thank him again! I am playing .01/.02 NL and will continue to use proper BR management to rebuild. I will update this thread every day to tell everyone how I am doing.
Currently at $16.40
Not tring to say anything out of the way but a few weeks ago you started a thread about taking shots outside(proper bm).I think this is a end result of that type of thinking.Don't get me wrong bm is by FAR FAR my worst part of poker,but i do not think you'll get over this problem.Because i am the same way an i still have not over come this.Much luck to ya though an keep this one updated unlike the other please.
Patty- thanks alot for the support. BR up to $25.55 after cashing in the ferguson and playing a little more 2NL so things are on the up and up!
twoturntables- thanks alot for the suggestions although I do now have a bankroll.
cashed in the ferguson eh?? thats a tourney i haven played in FORever...and when i did play it i never cashed
Ouch...Atrocious play there. It goes down to the bubble in like 2 1/2 hours and there was over 2.7k entrants or something. I was a big stack and got knocked out by back to back bad beats including a huge pot with my 10 10 against A8 suited all in pre-flop and he ended up with a flush, so sick.
rock n rollin dude haha before u know it youll be rolled for 5NL