Donk bets

[TheBowlBoy]

Could you give me some 3beting/calling/folding ranges from the blinds against an average opponent?

No,don't construct your ranges based on average opponents. They don't exist. There are unknowns and there are knowns.

Construct your range based on each opponent, game flow, table dynamics etc.

Once you can get that, then you'll be able to adjust to the average opponent much easier.

 

[billatx]

No,don't construct your ranges based on average opponents. They don't exist. There are unknowns and there are knowns.

Construct your range based on each opponent, game flow, table dynamics etc.

Once you can get that, then you'll be able to adjust to the average opponent much easier.

Thanks Bowl boy!One last Noob question.

When you are say on a flush draw on flop,would you prefer to donk bet or to check-call?

 

[TheBowlBoy]

Thanks Bowl boy!One last Noob question.

When you are say on a flush draw on flop,would you prefer to donk bet or to check-call?

My default play for any situation is never going to be to donk bet unless I have a big hand on a wet board multiway and I don't expect the preflop raiser to bet that board.

I will sometimes check/call and sometimes check/raise. It depends on the player, the board, and my cards.

Against a stronger range I wouldn't expect a c/r to work so often, plus I don't want to get blown off my draw if they are likely to raise.

Against a weaker range I will semi bluff more since they will fold often while being less likely to pay us off if we call the flop and hit.

 

[Rickman]

Good thread guys.
Question though: If you are OOP and have flopped a big hand (top 2 or trips lets say) and you know you are up against a good, aggressive opponent, wouldn't a weak lead into him/her be a good line? Most will interpret it as weakness and put in a re-raise. Depending on the board texture, etc, we then re-evaluate whether to put in another raise or call for future streets. Creates a much bigger pot on the flop going with that line. (than a simple CR which screams "I have a big hand" in the same situation)

Very opponent dependent of course, but I think the play has a lot of value. Especially after reading a thread of good players who would interpret it as an ill advised, "donk" play.

Against a weak, passive player, sure, let them do the c-bet and then evaluate whethey you think they can stand more pressure.

Thoughts?

 

[TheBowlBoy]

Good thread guys.
Question though: If you are OOP and have flopped a big hand (top 2 or trips lets say) and you know you are up against a good, aggressive opponent, wouldn't a weak lead into him/her be a good line? Most will interpret it as weakness and put in a re-raise. Depending on the board texture, etc, we then re-evaluate whether to put in another raise or call for future streets. Creates a much bigger pot on the flop going with that line. (than a simple CR which screams "I have a big hand" in the same situation)

Very opponent dependent of course, but I think the play has a lot of value. Especially after reading a thread of good players who would interpret it as an ill advised, "donk" play.

Against a weak, passive player, sure, let them do the c-bet and then evaluate whethey you think they can stand more pressure.

Thoughts?

It can be a good play in that spot. If you are in a lot of pots with a good aggressive player, you should already be check raising them as a bluff somewhat liberally. If he folds a lot you print monies. If he doesn't then you start getting paid off on your sets.

Sometimes it can be easier to get more value by calling the flop and then check raising the turn though.

When you donk bet, most good players will raise you with a polarized range and just call you with a medium strength hand. So when we donk into them they call with one pair type hands and raise sets/2pair/good draws and bluffs. A lot of the time that the money goes in it was going in regardless of whether you donked or checked on the flop. If you donk/raise they're going to fold all of their bluffs. If you donk/call they're more likely to assume that you're not going to fold to a turn bet so they'll be unlikely to continue a bluff, whereas if you c/c the flop you'll often get another bet out of them on the turn.

 

[billatx]

I'm having an idea that maybe i should almost never fold flop when i'm on the blinds OOP i call preflop,i check flop and it is bet to me.Since i called preflop,thinking i probably have the best hand the board means little to me,when i give my opponent the opportunity to c bet and he does it.

What do you think?

 

[TheBowlBoy]

I'm having an idea that maybe i should almost never fold flop when i'm on the blinds OOP i call preflop,i check flop and it is bet to me.Since i called preflop,thinking i probably have the best hand the board means little to me,when i give my opponent the opportunity to c bet and he does it.

What do you think?

It sounds like a horrible idea for you.

From what I can tell you are having trouble in this area. I've warned you before about 'recipes'. Maybe your english isn't good enough to understand some terms well but it is a bad idea to have strategies like "I will always call" or "I will always bet" in poker.

Judging from a lot of your posts that I have seen in the last week or so, it would be horrible for you to start calling flop bets oop without a made hand.

You should play pretty tight from the blinds like all the other winning tags at the micros and focus on making money from the CO and BTN.

 

[billatx]

It sounds like a horrible idea for you.

From what I can tell you are having trouble in this area. I've warned you before about 'recipes'. Maybe your english isn't good enough to understand some terms well but it is a bad idea to have strategies like "I will always call" or "I will always bet" in poker.

Judging from a lot of your posts that I have seen in the last week or so, it would be horrible for you to start calling flop bets oop without a made hand.

You should play pretty tight from the blinds like all the other winning tags at the micros and focus on making money from the CO and BTN.

Ok.it's a horrible idea from me.

But what do experienced players most usually do at those situations?

 

[billatx]

I'm asking to find out what the most +EV thought process is.

Sure,it doesn't mean that knowing something means that i can apply it profitably,but learning the philosophy behind something is equaly important.

 

[TheBowlBoy]

I'm asking to find out what the most +EV thought process is.

Sure,it doesn't mean that knowing something means that i can apply it profitably,but learning the philosophy behind something is equaly important.

Range, equity, Maximize.

Assign ranges to your villains. Estimate your equity against that range. Try to maximize your profits against that range.

When you valuebet, think about what hands in villains range will call you. When you bluff, think about what hands in villains range will fold. And what hands will raise.

 

[Rickman]

A concept I had to get beaten out of me was being "priced in" from the blinds.
Especially at the level I play ($1/$2 Live), there is no discount for playing a bad hand out of position. Why make your future decisions difficult?