Whas this the rite move?

There was 10 left top 9 get paid. Im the small stack at 20,000. 5-9 place all have between 24,000 and 35,000 chips left. small blind has over 100,000 chips and BB has 25,000 chips. Blinds are at 8000/4000. I go all in on the button with KJo. SB goes all in BB calls. SB has A10o, BB has KQo. A on the river eliminates us both and i finished 10th.

In my opinion, your play was not bad. You were on the button and no one raised before. Of course, depends on how the SB player was playing. If he was calling everything, I would think twice before going all in, because it only miss one player to the money.

Doubt you're going to find a better spot w 2.5bb's than this.
Wondering if you could've found a spot where you actually had some fold equity in hands before this one? (ie. I'd be shoving a WIDE range BvB before I get down to 2.5bb's).
Question: why are all the stacks soooo short? (what game was this?). Only games I can think of where situation gets like this is in a Turbo Satellite.

It was the Hero poker US only freeroll top 9 get $11. I was just thinking becuase the blinds were so big and there were 4 other people with 3 1/2-4 1/2 BBS left. Maybe somebody would Bust before the button got back around to me.

I would have folded because of the tourney structure. 9th pays 11 bucks 1st pays 11 bucks. There is no incentive for 1st place. 4 other people are feeling just as desperate as you were feeling.

Top 9 get paid the same? then u should have waited, never go all in when bubble is about to break unless you dont want just to get paid but getting to #1.

Yeah that move could go either way. But 9th place had ONLY 4,000 more chips than you. If your goal was to make the money, then you could have survived another round there. Maybe you could have picked up aces or at least a pair. KJ isnt that strong of an all in hand though, too much beats you.

I should have gave the Paystructure in my OP. The main thing i was worried about is that the big stack in the small blind would call and BB would call also. I was desparate and felt it was a bad move. If there was just an average stack of 5 BB left in the small blind, do you think then it would be the right play to go all in, or would you still rather wait and let it play out? Also whas my original play good or bad given the payout structure?

I would of waited for a least a A's anything

You could have survived another orbit and let someone else risk his stack because if 2 players whould have entered a hand untill you, they would be shorter than you affter that and could not survive another orbit. Simply someone on your left would had to risk so he can survive one more orbit. You can afford this but the players with 23k or 24k on your left do not have this confort. Simply thy are hit by the blinds once and they will be all in next orbit while you will still have 8k if you will not play at all.

Yes and they will be hit by the blinds this orbit and will not survive another one while the OP could have survived one more.

Wrong move ! You have no fold equity there, then you don't shove to try to steal... You can't make the 100K stack fold any hand, so you don't risk and just fold.

I'd fold and let blinds hit me unless I get AT+,99+
66-88 will be very hard to play given the circumstances
Fold anything else and hope someone gets knocked out before me.

With a flat payout structure (all getting paid the same), why do ya figure it's a guar. that SB calls when HERO shoves? (what benefit to him is it to call when he's guar. to cash in this, & gains nothing by winning more chips but does lose something when he calls & loses?)

Really? not me. Personally I'd have likely preferred not waiting quite so long (if poss.) to get it in.
I doubt Ax is any better off than KJ in this spot (imo). With SS's that don't really have any benefit to call (even if priced in... as long as they're not too short & NEED to call), you're much more likely to be getting called by Big Aces & pr's & KJ is in better shape than Ax in most cases. (not dominated as often)

I still think that he was better to let blinds hit the others. Because of the structure of the tournament and stack sizes vs BBs, he was not the one in dager at the moment but the ones with less or equal to 3 BBs from his left. You do not have to flip here because others (more than one) will be forced to risk their stacks before HERO because of lack of chips. And i think he had to keep his chips just for the only reason that others will be busted before him. This kind of play is suited for DONs too. 6ppl , 4 left and all the stacks relatively the same. Sometime is a good thing to let others risk.

It all depends whether you are willing to take a gamble and give yourself a better chance of being higher in the money, or you could just sit back and wait for the blinds to get to you, chances are one of the short stacks would of pushed before it got to you. I will be quite honest and say it was a gutsy move and you were quite unlucky to run into better hands.

Assumption; all where sitting at the same table. If there were still 2 tables running things play different.

What you know at that point is that SB can afford to take a 1/3 stack sized risk and might easily call with almost anything, and while you know that, you should also know that the BB then has odds, and opportunity and desperation to call if only for the glory! Know your villains!

You do have a decent above average hand, but at this critical moment you can wait.

If 2 tables then shoving makes a little more sense since you only get to see 2 more hands before the blinds come, while if a single table, you will get to see 7 hands. <<< Important facts left out of OP....

There is no 'higher in the money', payouts are all the same.
Good point about 'know your villains' though (ie. does villain seem to be 'ICM aware', etc. etc.)

[quote=Poker Orifice;1764718]There is no 'higher in the money', payouts are all the same.

Good point about 'know your villains' though (ie. does villain seem to be 'ICM aware', etc. etc.)[/quote
Yes you are correct, i did not realise top 9 were paid the same

without reading other posts, I think your shove is not only "ok" but is for sure optimal. Could run the stove numbers on it, but it's almost certainly +EV.

EV has nothing whatsoever to do with this hand, in this situation. ICM overrules all other considerations. In fact EV shouldn't really guide your actions from the approach to the bubble (depends on original size of tourney) on.

Looking at the cards as described in OP, it is very likely if hero folds, sb raises, and bb shoves anyway. Sb, as chip leader is happy to kill villains for us, his stack can absorb a beat. He wants this to end ASAP as well as we do, and he has shown himself to be agro enuf to be the sheriff, and in this case we should be happy to let him play sheriff.

sheriff? I call it 'satty bear'. Can't say I enjoy things much more in a satty then watchin' some donk spew off his chips in a few pots, playing hands needlessly & picking bad spots & donking himself out. Can't count how many times I've seen this happen... 'lots'.

Don't ask me why the sb (chip leader) called. We know he can ride it out into the money. LDO. Fact is he did, and probably would have, his only interest at this point should be to do (in our perfect world) what he can to end the thing.

You, and I have been in these where everyone who qualifies gets the same prize (DoN's, satties), and you, and I have seen how some people think differently than our sane way.

Our hero itt is not the chip leader. Our hero, on the BUTTON, asked for our advice. I'm giving it, stop with analyzing a situation that isn't in play. Most of us know what we would do in this situation if we are the chip leader. It's a no brainer, for most of us.

Sheriff/sattie bear...w/e.

What to remember is that the button is a great position post flop. Pre-flop, the BB is a great position to shove in, because you can sometimes get limpers to fold at the bubble stage.
In your situation, you were unlucky because the SB and BB had two fairly decent cards. What you have to remember is that it's a 50-50 chance that they either have good cards or not, if they're both holding nothing, then you would have taken the steal and been in a much better position. Unfortunatly, they had the cards to call and you were outdrawn.
I suppose your decision depends on what your aim is - win or cash?
If you're happy to cash then it may have been best to fold and gamble that in your next nine hands you have something better to shove with.
However, most of us are aiming to win, so your move was good. But unfortunatly the blinds caught something and had to call.
That's poker, baby!

ok baby

I do not think in this situation there is much to play postflop.