Pot size and bluffing?

Hello everyone and thanks in advance
So, I've been studying poker theory for a while now, and here's a topic I've read several things on: when the pot is large, should you be more inclined to bluff or to remain passive and value bet?

I kinda have motives for both answers. You can bluff (assuming opponents aren't bad, so they will fold if they have strong motives to think they are behind) since the pot is big enough for you to make a huge bet; even 1/2 of a big pot may be enough to represent a big hand. On the other hand, because the pot is big, everyone is getting pretty good pot odds to call you, especially if they are short stacked or have a strong draw (implied odds also play a role here, because if you make a big bet into a big pot, then you pretty much commit yourself and they can safely assume a shove-call when they make their hands).

Then again, this is just my newbie thought process, it may very well be wrong.
For the sake of simplicity, let's assume players are capable of folding and we are playing on a +/- dry board, against 3 opponents maximum (non of whom is particularly short-stacked), so there are no other reasons not to bluff besides the pot size.
So, big pot: is it good for (semi)bluffing? Or is it better for value betting only? What if the board allows for a flush draw (2-suited) or a straight draw, but no flushes or straights can have been completed yet?
Thanks

Wow - nice thread. I think bluffing has been discussed before and you will find plenty of threads/ posts about it. Saying all that. My consideration when bluffing is not mainly concerned with the pot size, but more on my reads on how my opponents have played previously and how they percieve my style and how I have played.

In general when bluffing you cannot say "Just bet 1/2 the pot" or "bet pot sized". I have definately bluffed on the river by only betting 1/3 pot which would obviously make my opponent think I was value betting. I have also overbet the pot, towards the end of the tournament, when stacks are low in comparison to the size of the pot and antes.

These 2 examples show how to bet, (or how I have bet), and won the pot. Overall, bluffing/ semi-bluffing and value betting are all correct at different times and different circumstances. We all know that to improve our poker play we need be able to play opponents, adjust to their style. There is no correct way or formula unfortunately to bluffing. Just imagine if there was - everyone with 1/2 a brain would be good at it!!

Gl with your quest and I would lastly say - All the situations you have described are neither right or wrong, just there to be played at the correct time. With experience thats what we learn when to play them. Gl

Marcwantstowin said:

Wow - nice thread. I think bluffing has been discussed before and you will find plenty of threads/ posts about it. Saying all that. My consideration when bluffing is not mainly concerned with the pot size, but more on my reads on how my opponents have played previously and how they percieve my style and how I have played.

In general when bluffing you cannot say "Just bet 1/2 the pot" or "bet pot sized". I have definately bluffed on the river by only betting 1/3 pot which would obviously make my opponent think I was value betting. I have also overbet the pot, towards the end of the tournament, when stacks are low in comparison to the size of the pot and antes.

These 2 examples show how to bet, (or how I have bet), and won the pot. Overall, bluffing/ semi-bluffing and value betting are all correct at different times and different circumstances. We all know that to improve our poker play we need be able to play opponents, adjust to their style. There is no correct way or formula unfortunately to bluffing. Just imagine if there was - everyone with 1/2 a brain would be good at it!!

Gl with your quest and I would lastly say - All the situations you have described are neither right or wrong, just there to be played at the correct time. With experience thats what we learn when to play them. Gl

Click to expand...

Thanks for answering
Yea I did a quick look-around for similar threads but most of them dealt with bluffing in a more general way and I wanted to ask a pretty specific question

Anyways I thought about what you said a bit then went back to read some stuff and turns out you're right reads matter much more than the pot size when regarding bluffs. In fact, despite strategy articles here and there, books themselves don't even mention pot size, only pot odds (say, bluffing $50 into a $100 pot is profitable as long as your opponent folds more than 2/3 of the times).
So yea, turns out this topic is a bit more advanced than I was expecting, and reads and odds play a major role here, much more than the pot size itself

Effectively bluffing is complicated.

Start with determining immediate circumstances. How does your opponent play in general? Stationy, passive, or thinking? What's happened recently at the table? Did your opponent get bet off a pot or a few pots? Lose a big pot? Have they been hitting hands and generally running well? These will effect their decisions.

Then there's your opponents likely range. What are they possibly holding? How much of that range connects with the board.

And this stuff isn't just about bluffing. It's about understanding what your opponent is likely to do.



I fell into a trap a couple days back. I hit trip aces on the flop, but with a poor kicker. After playing through the flop and turn I determined that my opponent HAD to know I had an ace, and on a .5/1 table it would be a huge error to try to bluff someone off trip aces. People don't fold second pair. I put out a blocker bet on the river, a little over half pot and he came over the top pretty perfectly to rep an ace hand, I just wasn't beating any strong aces. SO.. I folded.

And he showed 2 4 offsuit. So I got bluffed pretty badly. And I have to say my villain did it really well. He knew (a) I am capable of laying down a strong hand if the betting dictates, and (b) how to communicate correctly with his bet sizing.

Couple hands later I have J8 suited. I decided I would run a bluff of my own. I raised, the SB raised, I 4-bet, SB folds. The very next hand I get QQ. I figure this is exactly what I wanted. So I raise and this time the guy who bluffed me 3-bets me.

I figure this: he's good at bluffing and can get at it light. He just saw me play really aggressively the hand before. So he might think I'm steamy and going crazy. So I think he's as likely to be holding AK, AQ, JJ, TT, QJs, KQs, anything playable in position really.

The flop is all low cards so I figure my QQ is good. I bet, he calls. I'm not convinced he has a hand though. Turn comes a blank, I bet, he shoves.

And I called. Which in retrospect was really dumb. He knew exactly where I was at. He knew that I would think he would think I'm steaming, but understood that I had more likely had a strong hand exactly like what I was holding. He also knew that I would be suspicious of his play and would be more likely to call light. Guy totally out played me.