It wasn't even for a significant amount of chips compared to her stack. I wasn't commenting on how lucky she was, I was commenting on how it shows how fundamentally unsound her game is.
edit: I'm not calling her bad, I'm saying she has some leaks and is nowhere near as good as her results are. Also I'd be shocked if she wasn't enough to instantly fill any high-stakes cash game (live or online) and be the fish at the table.
There is no legitimate basis for saying her game is "unsound." So she was a underdog in one hand in an entire poker tournament. Yes, that tends to happen a lot to tournament winners, most winners get lucky and yes, even suck out! So what? It's impossible for a tournament winner to always have the best odds for every hand that they play. And I am sure if I went through the hand histories of every WSOP winner this series I could get a similar hand where they got lucky when they were supposed to lose, but didn't.
Not to say that your wrong, (which I think you are but that's a whole nother post) but if you are going to call a three time bracelet winner an overrated player who has 10.5 MILLION dollars poker winnings, you better make a better argument than showcasing one hand. In one tournament. That she won.
ok I've typed out and deleted a few responses, because I don't really want to get into a big argument here. I can promise you though that hand was bad though. It's not about the hand her opponent had it's just about how it exposes a huge flaw in her thinking during that one hand. She's either making a flaw of 4b shoving way too much in that spot or making a flaw of not picking the best hands to 4b shove with there (most likely she doesn't pick the best hands and instead just does it when she feels like it, and against someone good like her opponent, Ryan Fee, that's going to be a pretty big leak). Now personally I've never played against her so maybe it was something rare but I promise you no one who makes a living from poker will defend that hand being good.
For the sake of learning more about EV calculations, what is the math behind why the play is considered unsound?
ok I've typed out and deleted a few responses, because I don't really want to get into a big argument here. I can promise you though that hand was bad though. It's not about the hand her opponent had it's just about how it exposes a huge flaw in her thinking during that one hand. She's either making a flaw of 4b shoving way too much in that spot or making a flaw of not picking the best hands to 4b shove with there (most likely she doesn't pick the best hands and instead just does it when she feels like it, and against someone good like her opponent, Ryan Fee, that's going to be a pretty big leak). Now personally I've never played against her so maybe it was something rare but I promise you no one who makes a living from poker will defend that hand being good.
My main annoyance with her winning and everyone worshipping her though is that I'm somewhat friends with the guy she beat, and the amount of people talking shit about how good she is and how it was karma he lost (granted he was being a bit of a dick) is just extremely annoying when he was clearly the much better player. On twitter he offered to play her in some 300k sngs (I'm assuming that was the difference between 1st and 2nd so effectively what they were playing in the wsop?). If she's better why would she not agree to play?
Also $10.5 million in winnings is a bit misleading. She plays a ton of high buy-in tournaments including high rollers. How much in buy-ins has she spent? How much of herself did she have in the tournaments where she won the $10.5 million? I would actually be surprised if her overall profits were over $1 million but it's possible.
Also I promise none of this is sexism it's more anti-mttproism I promise I'd be saying the same thing if a guy mtt pro luckbox whose results were better than their skills (basically all of them) beat someone like dmoongirl or that Russian online 5knl reg girl and everyone was proclaiming how awesome they were and how that showed they were better than the person they beat.
I don't see anything wrong with button raising with 89o, and then if you suspect a light 3bet you 4bet bluff them using your chip stack and their tourney life to your advantage. Of course she doesn't put him on a hand as strong as AK, she expects him to fold and she expects to be live when he calls with the top of his range (as she was).
Vanessa has a very aggressive style. When you raise light as often as she does, you have to be prepared to fight back when players 3bet you light. If you always folded when you got 3bet then your aggressive style would be a huge leak. She has to adjust her opponent's 3betting range because they are adjusting to her button raising range.