NEVER play random Home Games with people you don't know

Tonight, I've ran into this house party poker next to my university where there were mechanics who probably had stack of cooler decks. I was at the library playing on full tilt during this afternoon when I was playing ofc freeroll and cardschat freeroll while this skinny douche approached me and asked me if I can come over to his house since it's Saturday night. He seemed friendly and I decided to join since I didn't mind playing live poker where I don't have to drive 30 minutes. Buy-in was 40-100 dollars cash game. We were playing 1/2. I was playing for about an hour, started with 40 while I was up about 80. But I smelled something fishy when I saw two people having quads(not at same time). One of them rivered quad 7s. 20 hands later or so, other guy made his quads on the turn. Later, the host's friend joins in and during his deal, I was dealt pocket 9s. I called 8 dollar pre-flop and flopped a set since Flop came out K T 9. But when there was a raise and a call in front of me, I folded my set on purpose. I was on cutoff and small blind raised and fat f--k smooth-called in front of him from utg-2 who previously raised. I was assuming one of them has higher set and I'm drawing dead. The vibe was very shady. The second I folded my set, one of the guys who previously had quads looked at me suspiciously as if he's wondering why i folded a set, like he knew what I had when he's not even in the hand. Fat f--k from utg-2 who previously had quads flopped a straight while I don't know what other guy had since he mucked his hand. I walked out with over 60 dollars, so pretty much slightly over 20 dollar profit. But the apartment just looked very shady. One of the guys who previously had quads had about over 400 bucks while person who flopped a straight on me had over 300 in the end.

I'm wondering if anyone stepped into random home game where mechanics were involved or cooler decks were involved. I'm getting a good feeling that they rigged the deck and secretly setted the decks because when the host's friend comes in, why did I flop a set on his deal while his friend makes a straight? I don't know how to explain this situation because it's one of those times where you had to be there to find out. This story doesn't seem to make sense but this happened tonight. On top of that, I was served with wine, beer, food, etc. There's no reason for them to do this for random person they do not know. I can only think of one reason why they're doing this. A plot to take my money.

Advice to everyone. NEVER play random home games with people you do NOT know. I'm just happy I didn't go broke. I've played home games with friends I know but this was my first time playing home game with people I do not know. It was very shady. Maybe Im' just being too sensitive and false accusing them but the feeling was just weird.

I mean, of course, it's a common thing where someone can flop a set while other flops a straight or someone can flop a straight while other person rivers quads but this place just seemed fishy when I saw 2 quads within one hour session and that when I folded a set, someone had a straight while one of the guys who previously had a set kept looking at me. Not only that, why did so many people flop sets. I flopped a set. Two of the guys flopped a set who turned it into quads. I'm guessing that person who mucked his hand probably had strong hand himself but inferior to villain's hand.

If this was casino or full tilt, I would've played aggressively with the set but during this home game, all I was thinking was, too many people flopped set in this home game. Is this a hand that will make me broke? I honeslty do not know how to explain this. I've done something where I would never do in REAL poker game, such as folding a flopped set on semi-coordinated board or barely coordinated board.

And also, if anyone can give advices, Is there a way to detect these cheats or know how to find out if they're cheating? I wasn't able to see any marked cards but of course, even if it was, it would look normal in my naked eyes. I googled some ways to know if they cheat, they say, look at the way they shuffle. Although it looked like they were shuffling, the results of rounds I've been seeing, such as frequency of people having sets within short period of time, were very fishy. My instincts can be very sharp sometimes as I've proven myself on my previous threads of making sick call and laydowns. But for this place, anyone who was in this apartment can sense it. I'm glad they were amateurs at cheating. If I ran into professionals, I would've lost my money without me knowing it. This place just seemed to obvious and fishy, I wasn't even playing my game. I was playing tight-passive, folding lot of times, slowly lost it through folding, losing blinds, etc although I came out of there with a small profit.

You want to make sure the dealers are using a cut card on the bottom of the deck, this makes the most common way to cheat (dealing from the bottom of the deck) almost impossible. Also look out for really complicated shuffling mechanics (ie Stripping the deck way more than the standard 3 times)

Good fold with the set and good job being able to walk out while you still had money and also without getting beat up/robbed.

it sad how people these days will try anything to try and scam people out of money these people need to get a life as with the previous post if it was shady its a good thing u didnt get beat up and its something you learn by and probably wont do in the future

Honestly, this place was too shady that I wasn't even playing my game. Who would fold a flopped set in a semi-coordinated board or barely coordinated board? I just had a bad feeling that someone probably had a higher set or deck's been rigged. As I folded my set, one of the guys who previously had quad was looking at me, staring at me, as if he's curious why I would fold a set like he knew what I had. It's one of those story where it's only believable if you were there. I feel stupid already as I'm still wondering why I was even lured to join their game. I was assuming they were looking for people to play poker with to have fun during Saturday night. But I had no idea that universities have college students who are mechanics or cheats.

LOL. I'm sure they wouldn't beat me up over taking 20 dollars when they've taken few hundred dollars off several guests or maybe, they were fake guests to lure me. Who knows.

Yeah, I've experienced the same thing. I'm a former magician, and I've read up on a lot of material in regards to being a card sharp. I noticed that one player only seemed to get hands while the deck was in his hands (a very basic form of cheating, you're much better dealing to a partner since this is much less noticeable). Further, he didn't really seem to know what he was doing when not dealing. He wasn't a good player, very passive, kind of loose, but with the deck in his hands, he's firing away like a madman and winning. Does this mean he was cheating? Not necessarily, but my sensors were going off, so I just decided I wasn't playing a pot against this guy when he's dealing.

The best advice I can give you, is if you feel like something's not right, just leave. If it's only one particular guy who's cheating, just don't play during his deal and you'll be okay.

If a mechanic is good, there's not going to be anything for you to see. There are particular shuffles that are better for manipulation and culling, but things such as deck switches are virtually invisible, and you're not going to see it.

The only real way to make cheating much, much harder is dealing multiple decks with a cut card. As the hand concludes, whoever dealt that hand, gathers the cards and shuffles the deck as the next hand is being dealt by the player to his left. After shuffling the deck, he leaves it in between himself and the guy to his left.

When this new hand is finished, the new dealer (guy on the left of our original dealer) put the cut card to his left, then cuts the deck shuffled by the first dealer onto the cut card, which the player to his left (2 to the left of the guy who shuffled the deck) picks up the cards and immediately deals them out.

In this way, one person shuffles, another cuts, and yet a third actually deals each deck. There are still ways to cheat, but it is much more difficult. Also gets the hands per hour up, which is nice.

Thank you for detailed information. Because I just had bad vibe about this apartment and my instincts were spot on. I would never fold a flopped set of 9s on a flop KT9 rainbow. If it was casino or full tilt, I would play it aggressively. But in this apartment, my instincts were just telling me to fold. Even if I were to flop a straight or full house, I would still fold it since I had bad vibe about turn and river helping them out. Like you said, if they were professionals, they would deal cards in a way where it's not noticeable. But the fact that quads have been dealt twice within 20 hands, Seeing over 5 sets or probably more in 1 hour period, table was caused suspicion. They were using Bicycle cards.

Another question. Is it legal or illegal to have home games like that in California/US? Because my roommate advised me to call the cops during the time they're having poker session again.

If they were sharp and smart, they could've con me but since they weren't smart enough, I was able to get away from this hole.

I learned this leason the hard way one time in minnesota years ago.
Our local casinos card room closed at 1 am,and I was offered to play in a home game that night.
It wasn't that the game was cheated,it was more the surrondings that was really bad.
I took a bg pot and was threated by someone that I would not make it out of there without an assbeating.
And just the whole vibe was really messed up.
Lots of gangster type people with guns and such.
Very hard leason learned.
Now I only play home games with people I know,and they are mostly just fun lo buy in games.

So they set this whole thing up to take your $40? Seems totally worth it to me.

I think you were seeing things that weren't there.

Edit to add: I would never play in this game anyway. $40 to $100 buy-ins for a $1/$2 game is only good for gambling not poker.

+1 Here in florida the maximum you can buy in ring games for nlhe is 100.
I always just play limit or tournaments live here because 100.00 is not even enough to play 1/2 on a solid level.

i think a poker players best tool is the abilty to read the situation placed in front of him and if you read that something wasnt right and that you shouldnt play then you made a good read and left. i have never played in a shady game like this thank god. i play in a regular tourny at a local bar every now and then but its not near this shady. the problem i have is that everyone there thinks they are phil ivey or something. everyone is way to aggressive. and if they dont win everyhand then it was my mistake not theirs.

i witnessed a couple weeks ago a hand that had me scratching my head. i dont remember the stacks or position. 1 guy had jack 9 and the other jack 10. they both flopped top pair and the one with j9 acted first. he bet, the other guy raised, then he reraised and the other guy bet enough to put him all in. he got pissed and started calling the other guy a f**king donkey. the other guy simply said he paid the same amount to play so he had the right to play how he wanted to. when it was all said and done the guy with j9 folded and the other with j 10 showed what he had. the other guy shut up and never said a word the rest of the night.

I hope I never go thru anything like this, very unfortunate that this happened to you but good thing you got away from there safe. Best of luck to you, TC.

I wanna know if theres a way to actually see the cards being set. I play home games regularly and feel i am one if not the top player there, i find that when certain people deal. big hands come out 80% of the time, i have found myself folding good hands to try and get out of the way of that dealer but always just think its in my head, there has got to be a way to watch or learn there tricks, i am going to ask we use a cut card now too, we never do and i believe they no this, also when someone doesnt take the cut i always ask why??? you should always cut the deck diffrently each time to help fwort cheats... what do you guys think is a good look for to try and help stop a person fromsetting the cards... i like to let them know i see it without busting them out, they tend to stay clear of me on the table that way but still do it, just not to me so much

Uh, I don't think it was only 40. Minimum buy-in was 40-100. They would've thought I would've bought in few times and lose it. but instead, I came out with 20 dollar profit. But I don't care about the money. I was planning to have fun since it was Saturday night but the apartment was just shady. And yes, for those college freshman dipsh1ts, it's probably lot of money to them. When I sat down, I didn't feel like buying in max and losing it, which was a good thing if I think about it now. I bought-in for 40 bucks, won few pots here and there, then slowly lost it through blinds and folds, and walked out while I still had my money. And there were people who bought in for 50 and 100 few times.

It's not far-fetched to think that if they randomly invited PLM, they probaby did the same to other people as well. Like OP said, maybe he's wrong, but he went with his instincts in this case, and that can't be a bad thing.

This story reminds me of this article btw, interesting read: http://www.cardschat.com/cheaters-never-win.php

From the minute I started to read this it sounded to me just like any other paranoid person who says ftp is rigged when their AA is out flopped.

Like these things don't happen, AA never outflopped, sets are never out flopped, quads don't happen..

And all this rigging and setting you up just for 40 bux... wow how desperate might they have been for money..

then I read this

"On top of that, I was served with wine, beer, food, etc. There's no reason for them to do this for random person they do not know. I can only think of one reason why they're doing this."

I started to LMAO ..

They weren't planning to get only 40 bucks. They expected me to re-buy several times, just like few other guests who lost nearly few hundred dollars. Unfortunately, they couldn't get anything from me. They were able to get few hundred dollars from several guests and expected me to do the same. Maybe Im' overanalyzing and seeing things but if you were there, you would feel that environment was shady. As I've said, if it was full tilt or local casino, I would play aggressively with a set and have nothing to say if I lose or get outdrawed since that's poker. But as for this apartment, Things were very shady. So, you tell me. How often would you see quads happening within 20 hands? How often will someone flop a set within 1 hour period in live cash game? Why is it that when I folded my set, someone flopped a straight while one of the guys who previously had quads was looking at me as if he's wondering why I folded a set like he knew what he had? The second I saw second quad within short amount of period, something smelled fishy. Why is it that when I folded my set, fat f--k from utg-2 had a straight? Like I said in previous post, I would never fold a set on the flop. But this was one of the times where suspicion was huge and folding was the right decision.

This reminds me when a friend and I played in a tournament at a casino and were invited to a home game by one of the other players in the tourney. The home game was on another night and my friend really wanted to go but not alone. So I came along. I had a similar experience when I started wondering what was going on because the "house" raked about 1/3 right off the top "for refreshments, etc." We didn't even ask them for refreshments, and there was enough stuff left to last them for several, several nights into the future. If I recall correctly, we bought in for $50 and it was tournament style. As people were eliminated from the tourney then a cash game started up. As we played we learned that at least half the room were dealers at surrounding casinos or had been at some time. Also saw quads and 2 straight flushes within an hour. I was up against a straight flush that hit on the river, after I was all in with the nuts, Ace high flush. I told my friend not to count on me going to their game again, and my friend agreed it felt set up.

You were lucky getting out with your money. I strictly play with people I know who are running the games or at casinos now. There are lots of ways to cheat. I recently bought and read a book on Card Cheats. You can get all kinds of info on the internet as well about how people throughout history have cheated at cards. It's unfortunate and sad that people have to stoop so low.

Who's story is this? Is this your story? Because that was the exact look on that d1psh1t's face when I folded a set. The guy looked very disappointed at me and was staring at me when there was action going on during turn/river. People who aren't in the pot usually focus on how players who are still in action act. But the guy was staring at me as if he's disappointed. When I saw that my set was a losing hand, I quickly realized that this apartment was crooked. After playing few hands and losing few blinds, I decided to leave while I was still up. This was one lesson I learned. I learned not to play home games with people I do not know or trust.

And people here are asking, "they would cheat to take your $40?"
Answer is, they expected me to rebuy and lose few hundred dollars, just like other guests. But unfortunatley, I walked in there as short-stacked playing tight-passive poker and walked out without losing anything.

im just not sure why you would even play poker in this enviorment. you felt funny right off the bat you said, so why stick around? i would rather play in the casino anytime than some random home game where i might get cheated.

yeah that sucks. U had a good read on the guy who was starin u dwn when u had a set. he probs folded a smaller set or Tp or crap to try entise u to play with his mate who had the str8.

Jus dont play in games u don't know the ppl bcos u get sum dirty buggers in this world.

I wuddnt dare do it in America bcos u guys have guns....All it takes is to win a big pot of one guy who was tryin to cheat u or a guy who takes loosin badly, then BAM he pulls out his gun n ur like "oooh sh!t"....

I think you did the right thing, went with your instincts and that's what you are supposed to do.

No, I don't think you are paranoid and yes I do think those who have questioned you on this are being pessimists or closed minded.

It absolutely makes sense that if you and several others are there all buying in for $40 - $100 at a time then the game could have been a set up so these people can make a few hundred off of a few people. If they do this every weekend then they are making a nice profit for themselves.

The food and drink. Most places charge a small fee for this, $5-$10 or ask everyone to bring something. Maybe they were being nice, maybe for a college student that is just the icing on the cake to make people feel comfortable and not suspect what is really going on.

Advice, go with you gut as you did. Don't go back there because whether they were cheating you and others or not you don't feel comfortable and you usually won't play at your best if you are uncomfortable and suspicious.

Nah, it's not my story. That article's been around for a long time. I think I remember who's story it is, but can't remember 100%, so don't want to say the wrong person.

It would probaly take one hellva magician to do what you think the dealer was doing ...that being said you should asked if the deal could move around the table each hand ...not just one dealer... or one deck! You did the right thing though...get up and go!

Do you not have someone cut the deck before every hand? My friends and I do this and I would do it with strangers for sure...

If its cut its pretty hard to rig the deck.

lol what does ppl did at the start of the game was shady as well

I think you did good going with your instincts. You never know what can happen at a shady place when theirs money on the line.

Button always shuffled and dealed while small blind cutted. But even after cutted, I'm pretty sure they have ways around it. I have no legitimate proof that they cheated but the vibe wasn't right and my instincts were telling me that this place was shady. Normally, people would jump up and down in their mind if they flop a set. But when I flopped a set, my instincts were telling me that I'm drawing dead and this hand is going to break me. I folded and were able to get lot of information from this, how one of the guys looked disappointed at me and stared at me while utg-2 flopped a straight. Although my reads weren't exactly accurate because I put them on pocket Kings or 10s where I would be drawing dead, he had straight, which was still good enough to prove that I would've lost that round.

TY for the compliment. Lately, my instincts have been sharp. I don't know if I've been lucky lately, or if I'm only reading dumbasses/donks full of tells or etc, but my instincts have been sharp as I've proven in this thread.

SICK CALL AND SICK LAYDOWN

If the players involved in shuffling and cutting are both in on it, it's very simple to reverse a cut. After setting the deck, the person shuffling will cut the deck himself in such a way that the 2nd cut will put the deck back to its original state.

haha, as kids we used to arrange the deck for royal flushes and 4 of a kinds and act like cowboys...but it was never for money (5 draw). most the fights came about playing football and baseball. sanford and son, the card sharps! if you have 20+ mins to spare, this is one of my favorite episodes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK_sQrnNeSU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPgcIXRaxhc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4NcNzfo3aQ parts 1-3 respectively and of course...for you western folks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwiScdPiRW4 trinity is still my name...yeah i know its a spaghetti western and a comedy one at that, but bud and terrence were always funny together

in response to mase: in one game i somehow i managed to keep dealing myself really good pocket hands and calling several all ins and winning.

after dealing myself my third pocket aces, instead of calling i folded and layed them on there backs to show my opponent.

that was a funny day.

Seams interesting that some people would do that sort of rigging. Either way at least you were able to come out ahead. It has crossed my mind to find some home games online but never have come to that. Don't think i ever will might as well stick to playing with people you know. At least you can feel completely comfortable either way.

Playing 50 BB MAX is not the way to go i think. Makes it more of a crapshoot.