Live Grind: How to Fall Asleep at the Table (Without Getting Caught)

Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Total posts
7,150
Awards
5
Chips
6
***PRO-TIP***
There are cliffs.

So, since all the cool kids are doing it, I figured I'd start a cash thread. But since it seems like there's not a whole ton of live discussion on CC, I figured I'd start detailing some of my exploits to my local casino.

Quick little bit about me. I've been playing poker on and off for a long time, but started taking strategy seriously about 8-9 months ago, and tried to attack my mental game issues about 6 months ago. I turned 21 this past September and every chance I've had since then I've been playing live. I'm a full-time student, so it's sometimes hard to find the time, but hopefully I'll continue to be able to go on a frequent basis.

This is how I opened my old live cash thread, https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/live-grind-how-not-fall-asleep-216948/ , which detailed my new experiences in the world of live, low stakes cash games. My enthusiasm was not met with matching success though, as my bankroll plummeted, and I began to question whether I was ever meant to touch chips.

I'd had marginal success online at the micro stakes, but had never moved up past 25nl. That all changed this past summer when I began playing somewhat more legitimate volume on Bovada. The games were soft, and I ran quite well, catapulting up the limits from 5nl all the way to 200nl - from a starting bankroll of $150 to about $3,000. I had won a tournament for about a $1k score, so I cashed out $1,300 and continued playing. I proceeded to go on a pretty brutal downswing.

Until I binked a live tournament, of course. I'd been playing live tourneys here and there, but nothing resembling "volume," and I'd only cashed in 1 out of 5. Then one Thursday night and sat down to play my casino's weekly $120 tournament, and I didn't get up until I had all the chips. (Well, technically I had to change tables a few times, but you know what I mean.) That was a $2,300 score, though heads up we decided that 1st would pay $200 to 2nd (which paid $800 less). We were about 15-20bb deep at that point, so it seemed prudent.

With that $2k+ boost to my bankroll, I was feeling solid again. That was on January 16th, 2014. Live cash had been going better too, where stringing some wins and minor losses together was boosting my confidence. Online games, on the other hand, were beginning to try my nerves. In the past month or so, I've gone from a $1,000+ bankroll online to an almost empty account. I didn't move down aggressively in stakes since most of my bankroll wasn't online anyway. I ran objectively poorly, though there was certainly some play bad along the way as I got stubborn in some spots - "how can they ALWAYS have it?!" They can. They probably have it.

So here I am. My bankroll is sitting right around 15 BI's for $1-$2, and I'm feeling like my skill set is much better suited to beating the game this time around. I've developed a lot as a player, in a number of ways:

1. Discipline: It's tough to fold. Not only this, but it's tough to sit at a cash game for 4 hours and do almost nothing BUT fold. I've improved so much in this regard that I can actually observe myself saving money in some spots where I knew I was giving it away before.

2. Positional Focus: I've never really struggled with position conceptually. The idea of playing more pots in position just made sense. But implementing it can be pretty different from the concept. From a practical standpoint, being in position more means over-limping less in early and mid position and more in late position. It means folding the blinds in marginal spots. It means isolating wide for value from the button, and playing the cutoff and hijack aggressively so as to "buy" the best position. This is something I would have realized was good if you told me, but didn't start implementing in a systematic way until somewhat recently.

3. Aggression: This one has always been a point of contention among people who discuss live $1-$2 games and how to best go about beating them. Some say you should peddle the nuts, or the rake will eat you alive, even if you can outplay your opponents. Some say these opponents can't even be outplayed. Some say that you should be playing a 62/55 style so as to kick ass and take names. None of these are quite right though. I used to try to nut peddle and play implied odds hands preflop, while playing strong hands and decent draws quite aggressively post. Now I focus on WHO I can make fold, and WHO is going to pay me off when I value bet top pair decent kicker on a scary board. Calculated aggression is key. I've begun to barrel more, which is a lot of fun and adds a new dimension to my game. But more importantly I've really opened up my isolating game from the button to the hijack. It's incredible how much money is to be made in isolating with a hand like JTo and then either taking it down postflop or value betting and hand reading better than your opponents. Which brings me to:

4. Hand Reading: I always struggled with hand reading in a live context. I don't know whether I just got caught up in the action of the hands, or whether there was just so much going on that my brain couldn't keep up, but the embarrassing truth was this: My live game was nowhere NEAR my online A game, nor B game. My B game live was pretty much my C- game online. I especially struggled to think in realistic ranges consistently. I don't know if it's just the brute force experience, or a honing of my mental game, or both, but I find myself thinking with a much higher degree of clarity now, and with much more consistency.


I opened my first live cash thread with some numbers, so I guess I'll put some here. Keep in mind that this is not my lifetime numbers. I ended up purging my database at one point because it was absolutely decimating whatever semblance of self confidence I had before. These results represent my cash game results from September 2013 onward, and my lifetime tournament results. Though I wouldn't necessarily expect to see much tournament stuff here - this is primarily a cash thread, and I'm thinking of quitting the live tournament scene for a while since I'm probably way over my true ROI right now, and I can't play anything resembling real volume. But without further ado, the numbers:

Cash Games
Total sessions: 34
Total profit: - $784
Total hours: 182
Hourly profit: - $4.35/hour
Standard deviation: $144.27/hour

Perhaps the most important number here is the standard deviation per hour. This is over 182 hours, represents a fair bit of play bad in the beginning, and a significant amount of run bad in a couple places, but my graph is currently trending upward from a low point of -$1,800ish. It hurts to admit that, but I'm a much stronger player now than even since the start of these sessions.

Tournaments
Total tourney count: 9
Total profit: $1,475.00
Standard deviation: $726.07/tourney
Total cost: $1,190
Total won: $2,665
Average profit/tourney: $163.89
Average tourney cost: $132.22

Obviously, and ROI of greater than 100% is pretty absurd given how much they rake - it's almost certainly not sustainable for someone like me who kind of just screws around in tournaments. So, will probably not continue playing these for the most part. It's a drain on my bankroll, which is already not enormous.

The goals of this thread are:
- Keep me motivated to keep grinding
- Give me a place to post hands
- Give me a place to run out some ideas for strategies/lines
- Make some interesting story posts once in a while, since casinos are... interesting places...


THE ALMIGHTY CLIFFS:
- I've been playing poker a while
- Let's be real, my results sucked online for a while
- Then they didn't suck
- My live results sucked for a while
- Then they sucked a bit less
- I won a couple tournaments
- I kind of have a bankroll
- NEW THREAD = GRIND MODE INITIATED


So, for rungood - and let's be honest, you probably won't stick around unless I do this - here's some fun pictures:
 

Attachments

  • 21453-1920x1080.jpg
    21453-1920x1080.jpg
    411.3 KB · Views: 1,534
  • Girl-Wallpaper-swimsuit-face-chest.jpg
    Girl-Wallpaper-swimsuit-face-chest.jpg
    299.7 KB · Views: 1,545
  • KateUptonBeach.jpg
    KateUptonBeach.jpg
    301.3 KB · Views: 1,539
E

enesem

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Total posts
204
Chips
0
Thanks for posting, this is a good read.

I have 4 days of cash table action coming up on 16th. I have always been OK in live games (so far I suck online), though I am hoping my online experiences are going to make me a better live player. We'll see in a couple of weeks.

I was very interested in your point about hand reading. I am in the middle ground where now I am really trying to read hands, I sometimes get it very wrong , a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I often read sets when the villain has inferior 1 or 2 pair, or I read 1 or 2 pair when he has a set.

What resources are you using to learn to read hands ?

Thanks.
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
im in as always
 
R

redwards92

never going to move up
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Total posts
2,234
Awards
1
Chips
8
i enjoyed the OP man, definitely in and good luck!
 
Cafeman

Cafeman

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Total posts
3,200
Chips
0
IN!

IF by 'IN!' we mean following the thread but not really saying much apart from the odd lol and wise crack.

Meh, what I mean to say is, I'll at the very least read what you write, which is probs way more than most :)

I know... IN(ish)!
 
Mr Sandbag

Mr Sandbag

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Total posts
2,635
Chips
0
In!

I look forward to keeping up, especially since we play at the same place and I'll know some of the regs you will be referring to.

Live poker is such a different beast than online, especially when it comes to the emotional aspect. Get 4-outered online - that SUCKS. Get 4-outered live AND watch the fish stack YOUR chips with a smug look - NAUSEATING.
 
Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Total posts
7,150
Awards
5
Chips
6
Thanks for joining the party, fellas. Here's a hand I played during a recent session that I found at least mildly interesting. Input on how I played it is 100% welcome, though I'm pretty happy with my line.

Full table, it's about 3 o'clock in the morning or so, and a fairly loose passive table. Chips haven't been flying around per se, but the bad, hat-wearing lady-reg two to my right is on tilt after getting it in boat < boat, and the overall atmosphere is fairly "gambly."

Preflop: Decent, older reg with surprisingly long (but not hippy-ish) hair makes it $10 UTG. Bad, hat-wearing lady-reg flats in UTG+1, as does UTG+2, who is a tightish unknown, looking like a semi-reg. Hero looks down at :as4: :ac4: and pops it to $40 (starts the hand $240ish deep). My sizing could go as high $50 here, but my raises had been getting a fair bit of respect. I wanted to leave a lot of room for UTG to re-pop if we were in a cooler situation, but also trying to get HU or 3-way. It folds to UTG, who hesitates, but calls - bringing the other two along with him.

Flop: ($160) :kh4: :kd4: :4d4: (4 players)
UTG doesn't take long before leading out $40. Tilting, bad, hat-wearing lady-reg grumbles but folds, and the tightish player to my immediate right folds. UTG villain is someone who knows enough about the game to understand that he is betting a very small amount relative to the pot, but he probably doesn't give me enough credit for interpreting his bet sizes. We have a little history, but not a ton. Villain thinks highly of his own game, and while he knows I'm a reg, I don't think he views me as a threat at the table. I think his bet narrows his range immensely. Even though he leads small, I still don't think he leads at all with a K in his hand. In the moment I put him almost exclusively on 99-QQ. Probably none of those 4-bet preflop, so I don't discount QQ at all. I flat because I think I fold out that entire range by trying to raise for value.

Turn: ($240) :6h4: (2 players)
Villain asks how much I have behind. I quickly count out my stack, which is $162 (SPR = 2/3), and tell him. He counts out $165 in red and lines it all up in one stack. He grabs it near the bottom as he would to push it in, but then just "adjusts" it. It looks like he was going to shove and then chickened out. He checks while looking at me. After this it's certainly possible that he was just trying to discourage a bet from me. Again, I beat his entire range and don't get any value from betting, so I check behind.

River: ($240) :8c4: (2 players)
Villain thinks for about 20 seconds, then actually puts the rest of his stack on top of the $165 in red (he covers me by about $50), and moves his stack in. I think that villain is pretty likely to take the easy way out here and just assume I'm weak on the turn when I check back. Whether he thinks he's trying to fold me off of JJ or whether he thinks he's getting value with something, I'm not sure. But with the nut two pair hand I think this is a pretty solid call. I think for a few moments, making sure I still like my thought process, and I call.


Like I said, I'm pretty happy with how I played this hand, but I'd be happy to have some input.
 
Mr Sandbag

Mr Sandbag

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Total posts
2,635
Chips
0
I like your line/read. The only hang up I have is the physical read on the turn when villain "prepares to shove" but checks. This is usually a sign of weakness and a way of discouraging a bet. That's what makes the river shove a bit odd. Obviously it's hard to put him on 88, but when a 1/2 player shows weakness on one street and suddenly puts a stack in on the next, he's usually not lying. If the river was a 2, does he shove? I'm not sure he does. He may bet, but I don't believe he's risking everything. These are clearly just assumptions I'm making based on the general 1/2 player pool. You obviously have a better read on what he is capable of, so I can't say for sure. Sick hand, though.
 
xdeucesx

xdeucesx

Bar Master
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Total posts
7,139
Awards
3
Chips
21
IN!

IF by 'IN!' we mean following the thread but not really saying much apart from the odd lol and wise crack.

Meh, what I mean to say is, I'll at the very least read what you write, which is probs way more than most :)

I know... IN(ish)!

in under the same guidelines as cafe
 
xdeucesx

xdeucesx

Bar Master
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Total posts
7,139
Awards
3
Chips
21
also, i'm going to cry if he flips over 88
 
Blobweird123

Blobweird123

CC's very own Dead Head
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Total posts
2,468
Chips
0
In for cliffs and sexy women
 
itsmebobd

itsmebobd

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Total posts
89
Chips
0
***PRO-TIP***
There are cliffs.



This is how I opened my old live cash thread, https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/live-grind-how-not-fall-asleep-216948/ , which detailed my new experiences in the world of live, low stakes cash games. My enthusiasm was not met with matching success though, as my bankroll plummeted, and I began to question whether I was ever meant to touch poker chips.

I'd had marginal success online at the micro stakes, but had never moved up past 25nl. That all changed this past summer when I began playing somewhat more legitimate volume on Bovada. The games were soft, and I ran quite well, catapulting up the limits from 5nl all the way to 200nl - from a starting bankroll of $150 to about $3,000. I had won a tournament for about a $1k score, so I cashed out $1,300 and continued playing. I proceeded to go on a pretty brutal downswing.

Until I binked a live tournament, of course. I'd been playing live tourneys here and there, but nothing resembling "volume," and I'd only cashed in 1 out of 5. Then one Thursday night and sat down to play my casino's weekly $120 tournament, and I didn't get up until I had all the chips. (Well, technically I had to change tables a few times, but you know what I mean.) That was a $2,300 score, though heads up we decided that 1st would pay $200 to 2nd (which paid $800 less). We were about 15-20bb deep at that point, so it seemed prudent.

With that $2k+ boost to my bankroll, I was feeling solid again. That was on January 16th, 2014. Live cash had been going better too, where stringing some wins and minor losses together was boosting my confidence. Online games, on the other hand, were beginning to try my nerves. In the past month or so, I've gone from a $1,000+ bankroll online to an almost empty account. I didn't move down aggressively in stakes since most of my bankroll wasn't online anyway. I ran objectively poorly, though there was certainly some play bad along the way as I got stubborn in some spots - "how can they ALWAYS have it?!" They can. They probably have it.

So here I am. My bankroll is sitting right around 15 BI's for $1-$2, and I'm feeling like my skill set is much better suited to beating the game this time around. I've developed a lot as a player, in a number of ways:

1. Discipline: It's tough to fold. Not only this, but it's tough to sit at a cash game for 4 hours and do almost nothing BUT fold. I've improved so much in this regard that I can actually observe myself saving money in some spots where I knew I was giving it away before.

2. Positional Focus: I've never really struggled with position conceptually. The idea of playing more pots in position just made sense. But implementing it can be pretty different from the concept. From a practical standpoint, being in position more means over-limping less in early and mid position and more in late position. It means folding the blinds in marginal spots. It means isolating wide for value from the button, and playing the cutoff and hijack aggressively so as to "buy" the best position. This is something I would have realized was good if you told me, but didn't start implementing in a systematic way until somewhat recently.

3. Aggression: This one has always been a point of contention among people who discuss live $1-$2 games and how to best go about beating them. Some say you should peddle the nuts, or the rake will eat you alive, even if you can outplay your opponents. Some say these opponents can't even be outplayed. Some say that you should be playing a 62/55 style so as to kick ass and take names. None of these are quite right though. I used to try to nut peddle and play implied odds hands preflop, while playing strong hands and decent draws quite aggressively post. Now I focus on WHO I can make fold, and WHO is going to pay me off when I value bet top pair decent kicker on a scary board. Calculated aggression is key. I've begun to barrel more, which is a lot of fun and adds a new dimension to my game. But more importantly I've really opened up my isolating game from the button to the hijack. It's incredible how much money is to be made in isolating with a hand like JTo and then either taking it down postflop or value betting and hand reading better than your opponents. Which brings me to:

4. Hand Reading: I always struggled with hand reading in a live context. I don't know whether I just got caught up in the action of the hands, or whether there was just so much going on that my brain couldn't keep up, but the embarrassing truth was this: My live game was nowhere NEAR my online A game, nor B game. My B game live was pretty much my C- game online. I especially struggled to think in realistic ranges consistently. I don't know if it's just the brute force experience, or a honing of my mental game, or both, but I find myself thinking with a much higher degree of clarity now, and with much more consistency.


I opened my first live cash thread with some numbers, so I guess I'll put some here. Keep in mind that this is not my lifetime numbers. I ended up purging my database at one point because it was absolutely decimating whatever semblance of self confidence I had before. These results represent my cash game results from September 2013 onward, and my lifetime tournament results. Though I wouldn't necessarily expect to see much tournament stuff here - this is primarily a cash thread, and I'm thinking of quitting the live tournament scene for a while since I'm probably way over my true ROI right now, and I can't play anything resembling real volume. But without further ado, the numbers:

Cash Games
Total sessions: 34
Total profit: - $784
Total hours: 182
Hourly profit: - $4.35/hour
Standard deviation: $144.27/hour

Perhaps the most important number here is the standard deviation per hour. This is over 182 hours, represents a fair bit of play bad in the beginning, and a significant amount of run bad in a couple places, but my graph is currently trending upward from a low point of -$1,800ish. It hurts to admit that, but I'm a much stronger player now than even since the start of these sessions.

Tournaments
Total tourney count: 9
Total profit: $1,475.00
Standard deviation: $726.07/tourney
Total cost: $1,190
Total won: $2,665
Average profit/tourney: $163.89
Average tourney cost: $132.22

Obviously, and ROI of greater than 100% is pretty absurd given how much they rake - it's almost certainly not sustainable for someone like me who kind of just screws around in tournaments. So, will probably not continue playing these for the most part. It's a drain on my bankroll, which is already not enormous.

The goals of this thread are:
- Keep me motivated to keep grinding
- Give me a place to post hands
- Give me a place to run out some ideas for strategies/lines
- Make some interesting story posts once in a while, since casinos are... interesting places...


THE ALMIGHTY CLIFFS:
- I've been playing poker a while
- Let's be real, my results sucked online for a while
- Then they didn't suck
- My live results sucked for a while
- Then they sucked a bit less
- I won a couple tournaments
- I kind of have a bankroll
- NEW THREAD = GRIND MODE INITIATED


So, for rungood - and let's be honest, you probably won't stick around unless I do this - here's some fun pictures:


I loved reading this... Keep on grinding it out bro. I understand the live poker play not being as good as online, live I seem to be worried about my own tells more than their holdings and such. I need to improve in a lot of the same areas
 
Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Total posts
7,150
Awards
5
Chips
6
Thanks for the subs, guys. I'm really looking forward to keeping this thread active and (hopefully) interesting. Any further thoughts on my line? I'm a little surprised there hasn't been more debate yet lol.

I'll hold off on results a bit longer until I see if I can guilt anyone else into subbing. In the meanwhile, here's another hand:


Full table, chips have literally been FLYING around the table. Sand is on my immediate left, and we're both playing tight as balls, but the rest of the table is pretty much going insane. I've stacked off JJ < AK, and AK < QQ to the same guy preflop, so I have a slightly losing image, but my stack is right around $200. Couple particularly big spots at the table, one of which is about $800 deep.

Preflop: Loose bad-aggro raises UTG to $12. I wasn't sure what his range was but I knew he wasn't just raising AA, that's for sure. 3 callers, including big stack donk (who has stacked off pre with A8o for about $120). I'm on the button with :as4: :ks4: and bump it to $50. UTG flats, leaving himself $110ish behind. Everyone else folds.


Flop: ($120) :qh4: :7s4: :6s4: (2 players)
UTG quickly donk shoves. I reluctantly call, getting better than 2:1, and expecting to be ahead of worse flush draws a non-zero % of the time (though I'd feel better about it if the Q was a spade).

Mostly curious on if people like the line and sizing preflop. I think it's a pretty clear call on the flop getting better than 2:1 (no more rake to be taken out). I could see just flatting pre based on the table dynamics and my postflop ability, but I expect to crush people's continuing/stacking off ranges at the table, so it almost seemed a "waste" to flat pre. Any thoughts?
 
xdeucesx

xdeucesx

Bar Master
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Total posts
7,139
Awards
3
Chips
21
Thanks for the subs, guys. I'm really looking forward to keeping this thread active and (hopefully) interesting. Any further thoughts on my line? I'm a little surprised there hasn't been more debate yet lol.

I'll hold off on results a bit longer until I see if I can guilt anyone else into subbing. In the meanwhile, here's another hand:


Full table, chips have literally been FLYING around the table. Sand is on my immediate left, and we're both playing tight as balls, but the rest of the table is pretty much going insane. I've stacked off JJ < AK, and AK < QQ to the same guy preflop, so I have a slightly losing image, but my stack is right around $200. Couple particularly big spots at the table, one of which is about $800 deep.

Preflop: Loose bad-aggro raises UTG to $12. I wasn't sure what his range was but I knew he wasn't just raising AA, that's for sure. 3 callers, including big stack donk (who has stacked off pre with A8o for about $120). I'm on the button with :as4: :ks4: and bump it to $50. UTG flats, leaving himself $110ish behind. Everyone else folds.


Flop: ($120) :qh4: :7s4: :6s4: (2 players)
UTG quickly donk shoves. I reluctantly call, getting better than 2:1, and expecting to be ahead of worse flush draws a non-zero % of the time (though I'd feel better about it if the Q was a spade).

Mostly curious on if people like the line and sizing preflop. I think it's a pretty clear call on the flop getting better than 2:1 (no more rake to be taken out). I could see just flatting pre based on the table dynamics and my postflop ability, but I expect to crush people's continuing/stacking off ranges at the table, so it almost seemed a "waste" to flat pre. Any thoughts?

Honestly, if the tables as loose as your saying, I might even go bigger. 12+3 callers, so already 48$ in the pot coming up to us?

I might 3bet to like 60 or 65$. I think it's a stretch to think you don't get one caller picked up at that size. Beyond that, well played. Just eyeballing, but I'm going to say Qx and were obv GII.
 
Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Total posts
7,150
Awards
5
Chips
6
Yeah, I did actually look back and think bigger might have been better. Especially for if big-stack decides to get stubborn and we could potentially be getting it all in with top pair pretty easily on two streets or less for a $500+ pot.

Sand took a really sexy line verse him. Sand opened to $15 UTG with AJ, and big stack called, as did I (pocket pair). Flop came J42, Sand bet $30, big stack calls, I fold. Turn 3, Sand bets $50, big stack callls. River 4, Sand checks planning to call any bet from villain. Villain bets $125 and Sand tank-calls (despite his grand plans to snap-call :p ). I was purdy jealous, cause I couldn't get much going in spite of the insanity going on around me
 
JOEBOB69

JOEBOB69

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Total posts
4,681
Chips
0
Thanks for the subs, guys. I'm really looking forward to keeping this thread active and (hopefully) interesting. Any further thoughts on my line? I'm a little surprised there hasn't been more debate yet lol.

I'll hold off on results a bit longer until I see if I can guilt anyone else into subbing. In the meanwhile, here's another hand:


Full table, chips have literally been FLYING around the table. Sand is on my immediate left, and we're both playing tight as balls, but the rest of the table is pretty much going insane. I've stacked off JJ < AK, and AK < QQ to the same guy preflop, so I have a slightly losing image, but my stack is right around $200. Couple particularly big spots at the table, one of which is about $800 deep.

Preflop: Loose bad-aggro raises UTG to $12. I wasn't sure what his range was but I knew he wasn't just raising AA, that's for sure. 3 callers, including big stack donk (who has stacked off pre with A8o for about $120). I'm on the button with :as4: :ks4: and bump it to $50. UTG flats, leaving himself $110ish behind. Everyone else folds.


Flop: ($120) :qh4: :7s4: :6s4: (2 players)
UTG quickly donk shoves. I reluctantly call, getting better than 2:1, and expecting to be ahead of worse flush draws a non-zero % of the time (though I'd feel better about it if the Q was a spade).

Mostly curious on if people like the line and sizing preflop. I think it's a pretty clear call on the flop getting better than 2:1 (no more rake to be taken out). I could see just flatting pre based on the table dynamics and my postflop ability, but I expect to crush people's continuing/stacking off ranges at the table, so it almost seemed a "waste" to flat pre. Any thoughts?
Looks fine maybe even $60 pre flop
Edit: what deuce said
 
Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Total posts
7,150
Awards
5
Chips
6
Heh. Anyway the result on the AKss hand was that villain had 76hh. He fist-pumped when he won the hand too, like he'd just owned me or something. Well okay, he did own me, but he certainly didn't do anything spectacular. Even given 100% implied odds to my whole stack in that spot he's screwing himself hard by calling pre, so I still felt good about it.

What do you guys think of his jam on the flop? I feel like it's pretty bad, because AK is such a big part of my range. I'm obviously never folding QQ+ (lol too bad I didn't have QQ) regardless, and clearly not AQ (if I even have it there) or AKss. But what about the other 15 combos of AK? If he checks I'm jamming the flop. If he donk-shoves I get to shake my head and sigh fold. And who knows, I might fold jacks there where I otherwise would have jammed if he checked.
 
JOEBOB69

JOEBOB69

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Total posts
4,681
Chips
0
So he called off ~30% of his chips pre with 76. Talk friendly and politely to him, and ask when he plans on coming back.
 
Mr Sandbag

Mr Sandbag

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Total posts
2,635
Chips
0
Yeah, I did actually look back and think bigger might have been better. Especially for if big-stack decides to get stubborn and we could potentially be getting it all in with top pair pretty easily on two streets or less for a $500+ pot.

Sand took a really sexy line verse him. Sand opened to $15 UTG with AJ, and big stack called, as did I (pocket pair). Flop came J42, Sand bet $30, big stack calls, I fold. Turn 3, Sand bets $50, big stack callls. River 4, Sand checks planning to call any bet from villain. Villain bets $125 and Sand tank-calls (despite his grand plans to snap-call :p ). I was purdy jealous, cause I couldn't get much going in spite of the insanity going on around me

Hey man, I was snap calling a shove. I really felt like he would with air. I tanked because he bet half-potish, and the last time he bet that size I folded top pair to his set. I probably overthought it.
 
Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Total posts
7,150
Awards
5
Chips
6
Yeah you were overthinking a tad. He was aware of pot size to an extent, but until you seem him bet a really different amount with air I don't think you can conclude much.
 
Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Total posts
7,150
Awards
5
Chips
6
So he called off ~30% of his chips pre with 76. Talk friendly and politely to him, and ask when he plans on coming back.

He's a reg, believe it or not.
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

Stacks & Stacks
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Total posts
8,250
Awards
1
Chips
118
In

AA hand, most times villains with a K there will check to allow you to CB so wp and IMHO correct read on his no-bet on the turn.

AK hand, given table dynamics, most definitely I'd 3-bet larger preflop, like $75. No issues with the flop call as you will also see a lot of TP hands do this donk shove too.
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Total posts
2,593
Chips
0
So he called off ~30% of his chips pre with 76. Talk friendly and politely to him, and ask when he plans on coming back.

This lol

@itsmebobd No need to quote the OP bro, especially an essay like that :p

Good luck with the live grind bro, I want to try it soon myself.
 
stately7

stately7

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Total posts
365
Chips
0
Definitely in! Will read and respond to stuff shortly. And stuff.
 
Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Total posts
7,150
Awards
5
Chips
6
Thanks for input Jilly - glad to have you onboard here!

@IPlay: Thanks for subbing in - I hope you get to try live soon! Let us know here if you do :)

@stately7: Thanks - I know the OP is a bit of a novel, but I think it is a necessary background :D


In the AA hand, I called and villain did have 88. I puked a little bit in my mouth, and some fell on the table. I was pretty sick to my stomach in the moment, partially because I'd played extremely solid for a good number of hours only to end the session a $200 loser (instead of a $400 or so winner).

But the more I thought about it, the better I felt. It was a surprising feeling - it wasn't like I took deep breaths and calmed myself down. It was a little voice in the back of my head:

"It's not like that's the only 2-outer you're ever going to face."

A simple statement, but the implications are large. Probably the biggest implication is that I plan to be in this game a while. The next biggest is that because I'll be in the game a while, I'm going to be facing more 2-outers in the future (5-10% comes around more often than you think). So, the important thing is to get comfortable with it. Not having to rage-quit when I get 2-outered in a 3-BI pot is going to be an enormous edge I will have over my opponents.

Being happy with my line helped a lot though. As I thought about it more I liked my line more and more, which is nice because as I'll undoubtedly talk about in future hands, my brain can get fuzzy in the midst of a large pot. I felt that my clarity of thought and particularly my turn check back were fairly spot on.

More spots incoming soon, but now I need to sleep. I'm just coming back from an 8-hour session, and I want to post the hands when I'm a little fresher mentally. It's been a great weekend grind, with about 20 hours in the books.

But for now, good night CC.
 
Organize a Home Poker Game
Top