Shove or not hands?

These are hands that frequently come up and I'm unsure of exactly how I should be playing them. The first one, I raise UTG with 10's and get re-raised, first thing that comes to mind is ok I'm most likely re-raised by a decent higher pair or A,K. I elect to -re-shove, I guess at this point my fold equity isn't very high but I'm low on chips and need to double up, is this correct or should I of just folded? I'm guessing flatting here is out of the question?


PokerStars Game #62708152054: Tournament #422010497, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (40/80) - 2011/05/29 19:52:33 WET [2011/05/29 14:52:33 ET]
Table '422010497 193' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: SABBATH_GR (9068 in chips)
Seat 2: armeniaaan (2940 in chips)
Seat 3: ramdeebam (1605 in chips)
Seat 4: erwin8585 (2655 in chips)
Seat 5: pfcpoker_UK (3045 in chips)
Seat 6: Edberg22 (5655 in chips)
Seat 7: bling999888 (3560 in chips)
Seat 8: tjim78 (3355 in chips)
Seat 9: million779 (3730 in chips)
tjim78: posts small blind 40
million779: posts big blind 80
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ramdeebam [Th Tc]
SABBATH_GR: folds
armeniaaan: folds
ramdeebam: raises 160 to 240
erwin8585: raises 320 to 560
pfcpoker_UK: folds
Edberg22: folds
bling999888: folds
tjim78: folds
million779: folds
ramdeebam: raises 1045 to 1605 and is all-in

This hand is actually in the same tournament and 2 or 3 hands proir to this one. I have elected to flat, not sure if this was correct or not at this point??

We all folded and he showed kings but is it still correct just to flat this raise with all this dead money or just shove it?

PokerStars Game #62707992435: Tournament #422010497, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level V (30/60) - 2011/05/29 19:49:20 WET [2011/05/29 14:49:20 ET]
Table '422010497 193' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: SABBATH_GR (10813 in chips)
Seat 2: armeniaaan (3000 in chips)
Seat 3: ramdeebam (1785 in chips)
Seat 4: erwin8585 (2735 in chips)
Seat 5: pfcpoker_UK (3075 in chips)
Seat 6: Edberg22 (5755 in chips)
Seat 7: bling999888 (3270 in chips)
Seat 8: tjim78 (3435 in chips)
Seat 9: million779 (1745 in chips)
pfcpoker_UK: posts small blind 30
Edberg22: posts big blind 60
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ramdeebam [9d 9h]
bling999888: raises 120 to 180
tjim78: folds
million779: folds
SABBATH_GR: folds
armeniaaan: calls 180
ramdeebam: calls 180
erwin8585: folds
pfcpoker_UK: folds
Edberg22: folds
*** FLOP *** [3c 6c Ah]
bling999888: bets 3090 and is all-in
armeniaaan: folds
ramdeebam: folds
Uncalled bet (3090) returned to bling999888
bling999888 collected 630 from pot
bling999888: shows [Ks Kd] (a pair of Kings)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 630 | Rake 0
Board [3c 6c Ah]
Seat 1: SABBATH_GR folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: armeniaaan folded on the Flop
Seat 3: ramdeebam folded on the Flop
Seat 4: erwin8585 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: pfcpoker_UK (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Edberg22 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: bling999888 collected (630)
Seat 8: tjim78 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: million779 folded before Flop (didn't bet)


Another hand, 600 already in the pot and one limper, should i elect to shove this or just raise? I decided to raise 4x BB and everyone folded. I wonder though, if this is a shover or not with all the dead money? I still have 20bigblinds, but I wonder if I raised up and get shoved on do I call or fold? I already would of invested 25% of my stack nearly so what do you think?

PokerStars Game #62708052788: Tournament #389654151, $1.00+$0.10 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2011/05/29 19:50:33 WET [2011/05/29 14:50:33 ET]
Table '389654151 47' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: *Siggie 111* (1215 in chips)
Seat 2: frotaru (3621 in chips)
Seat 3: banjan351 (4138 in chips)
Seat 4: mister_1981 (2355 in chips)
Seat 5: pannonbull74 (3036 in chips)
Seat 6: ramdeebam (4400 in chips)
Seat 7: Giorgio16 (3759 in chips)
Seat 8: tripero25 (6708 in chips)
Seat 9: Marcunio (2955 in chips)
tripero25: posts small blind 100
Marcunio: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ramdeebam [Ah Qh]
*Siggie 111*: folds
frotaru: folds
banjan351: folds
mister_1981: calls 200
pannonbull74: folds
ramdeebam: raises 600 to 800
Giorgio16: folds
tripero25: folds
Marcunio: folds
mister_1981: folds
Uncalled bet (600) returned to ramdeebam
ramdeebam collected 700 from pot
ramdeebam: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 700 | Rake 0
Seat 1: *Siggie 111* folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: frotaru folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: banjan351 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: mister_1981 folded before Flop
Seat 5: pannonbull74 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: ramdeebam collected (700)
Seat 7: Giorgio16 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: tripero25 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: Marcunio (big blind) folded before Flop

Can you outline if any are correct or wrong? Tell me in these spots what I should be shoving with or folding with to pre-flop raises? 10bb's = shove with any pair reasonable mid/high pair or so?

Oh and another hand.


PokerStars Game #62709170551: Tournament #389654151, $1.00+$0.10 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2011/05/29 20:14:50 WET [2011/05/29 15:14:50 ET]
Table '389654151 47' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: citycookie (5168 in chips)
Seat 2: ZERENDA (8498 in chips)
Seat 3: banjan351 (6846 in chips)
Seat 4: mister_1981 (1705 in chips)
Seat 5: pannonbull74 (3686 in chips)
Seat 6: ramdeebam (4050 in chips)
Seat 7: Giorgio16 (4232 in chips)
Seat 8: tripero25 (6863 in chips)
Seat 9: Marcunio (5355 in chips)
citycookie: posts the ante 25
ZERENDA: posts the ante 25
banjan351: posts the ante 25
mister_1981: posts the ante 25
pannonbull74: posts the ante 25
ramdeebam: posts the ante 25
Giorgio16: posts the ante 25
tripero25: posts the ante 25
Marcunio: posts the ante 25
Giorgio16: posts small blind 125
tripero25: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ramdeebam [Td Kd]
Marcunio: folds
citycookie: folds
ZERENDA: folds
banjan351: folds
mister_1981: folds
pannonbull74: folds
ramdeebam: raises 500 to 750
Giorgio16: folds
tripero25: folds
Uncalled bet (500) returned to ramdeebam
ramdeebam collected 850 from pot
ramdeebam: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 850 | Rake 0
Seat 1: citycookie folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: ZERENDA folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: banjan351 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: mister_1981 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: pannonbull74 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: ramdeebam (button) collected (850)
Seat 7: Giorgio16 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: tripero25 (big blind) folded before Fl
Seat 9: Marcunio folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Should I be raising to try steal here? After I did this, I realized that i put in a massive amount of my stack, so if shoved on i'm in a difficult situation but with the dead money and a half decent hand, should I be folding here or open shoving? These spots I think is where I struggle the most and need to fix them. What is the best move here if any? The problem with open shoving is that people will think I'm really weak and can shove quite light but is it worth it at THIS point?

And another hand..be great if I get some replies here.

1000 in dead money here, I have 4000 in chips, I could complete but is a hand that has some showdown value and I have fold equity so is this correct to SHOVE or just complete>?


PokerStars Game #62709683607: Tournament #389654151, $1.00+$0.10 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (150/300) - 2011/05/29 20:25:02 WET [2011/05/29 15:25:02 ET]
Table '389654151 47' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: citycookie (8718 in chips)
Seat 2: ZERENDA (9123 in chips)
Seat 3: banjan351 (7732 in chips)
Seat 4: mister_1981 (755 in chips)
Seat 5: remy.alex (5825 in chips)
Seat 6: ramdeebam (4150 in chips)
Seat 7: Giorgio16 (3907 in chips)
Seat 8: tripero25 (9413 in chips)
Seat 9: Marcunio (3555 in chips)
citycookie: posts the ante 25
ZERENDA: posts the ante 25
banjan351: posts the ante 25
mister_1981: posts the ante 25
remy.alex: posts the ante 25
ramdeebam: posts the ante 25
Giorgio16: posts the ante 25
tripero25: posts the ante 25
Marcunio: posts the ante 25
ramdeebam: posts small blind 150
Giorgio16: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ramdeebam [Ks Js]
tripero25: folds
Marcunio: folds
citycookie: calls 300
ZERENDA: folds
banjan351: calls 300
mister_1981 has timed out
mister_1981: folds
mister_1981 is sitting out
remy.alex: folds
mister_1981 has returned
ramdeebam: raises 3825 to 4125 and is all-in
Giorgio16: folds
citycookie: folds
banjan351: folds
Uncalled bet (3825) returned to ramdeebam
ramdeebam collected 1425 from pot
ramdeebam: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1425 | Rake 0
Seat 1: citycookie folded before Flop
Seat 2: ZERENDA folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: banjan351 folded before Flop
Seat 4: mister_1981 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: remy.alex (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: ramdeebam (small blind) collected (1425)
Seat 7: Giorgio16 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: tripero25 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Marcunio folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Just posted a long reply and lost it all

You've played these broadly correctly in my view. No harm in simply stealing blinds like you did on the KTs hand although you might want to lower the raise to say 2.25 -2.5 x and often this will have the same effect without committing too much of your stack.
On the last hand at 13-14BB's you're in perfect re-shoving territory and you only need to be right 75% of the time (as you're picking up an additional 25% to your stack) to make this a +EV play. I doubt you're getting looked up here mpore than 1 time in 4 and even then you have reasonable equity in an AI situation.

Try posting 1 hand per thread, and at the very least if you are posting multiple hands convert them, its manners if nothing else.

Why raise all in with K J on that last hand? You had around 14 BB's left I think. Every other hand was about the same play I would have made...but I don't know if thats a good thing

I have stated in the bugs section numerous times that hand convertor doesn't work anymore. I get an error stating "hand history invalid" or something, basically it wont convert.

Thanks for reply, I need to just work on that shoving range more deeper on in tournaments just to take me those steps further, I hope.

So, as long as I'm getting them right, that's all I want/need to know. Sometimes I wonder after I've shoved if I've been to loose or not.

It was because there was already 1000+ in the pot from blinds/antes and limpers, so represented 25% of my stack if I got everyone to fold.

Poker Stars $10+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t40/t80 Blinds - 9 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG: t9068 113.35 BBs
UTG+1: t2940 36.75 BBs
Hero (UTG+2): t1605 20.06 BBs
MP1: t2655 33.19 BBs
MP2: t3045 38.06 BBs
CO: t5655 70.69 BBs
BTN: t3560 44.50 BBs
SB: t3355 41.94 BBs
BB: t3730 46.62 BBs

Pre Flop: (t120) Hero is UTG+2 with T T
2 folds, Hero raises to t240, MP1 raises to t560, 5 folds, Hero raises to t1605 all in



Poker Stars $10+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t30/t60 Blinds - 9 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP1: t10813 180.22 BBs
MP2: t3000 50 BBs
Hero (CO): t1785 29.75 BBs
BTN: t2735 45.58 BBs
SB: t3075 51.25 BBs
BB: t5755 95.92 BBs
UTG: t3270 54.50 BBs
UTG+1: t3435 57.25 BBs
UTG+2: t1745 29.08 BBs

Pre Flop: (t90) Hero is CO with 9 9
UTG raises to t180, 3 folds, MP2 calls t180, Hero calls t180, 3 folds

Flop: (t630) 3 6 A (3 players)
UTG bets t3090 all in, MP2 folds, Hero folds


Poker Stars $1.00+$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds - 9 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG: t1215 6.08 BBs
UTG+1: t3621 18.11 BBs
UTG+2: t4138 20.69 BBs
MP1: t2355 11.78 BBs
MP2: t3036 15.18 BBs
Hero (CO): t4400 22 BBs
BTN: t3759 18.80 BBs
SB: t6708 33.54 BBs
BB: t2955 14.78 BBs

Pre Flop: (t300) Hero is CO with A Q
3 folds, MP1 calls t200, 1 fold, Hero raises to t800, 4 folds


Poker Stars $1.00+$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t125/t250 Blinds + t25 - 9 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG+1: t5168 M = 8.61
UTG+2: t8498 M = 14.16
MP1: t6846 M = 11.41
MP2: t1705 M = 2.84
CO: t3686 M = 6.14
Hero (BTN): t4050 M = 6.75
SB: t4232 M = 7.05
BB: t6863 M = 11.44
UTG: t5355 M = 8.93

Pre Flop: (t600) Hero is BTN with T K
6 folds, Hero raises to t750, 2 folds


Poker Stars $1.00+$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t150/t300 Blinds + t25 - 9 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG+2: t8718 M = 12.92
MP1: t9123 M = 13.52
MP2: t7732 M = 11.45
CO: t755 M = 1.12
BTN: t5825 M = 8.63
Hero (SB): t4150 M = 6.15
BB: t3907 M = 5.79
UTG: t9413 M = 13.95
UTG+1: t3555 M = 5.27

Pre Flop: (t675) Hero is SB with K J
2 folds, UTG+2 calls t300, 1 fold, MP2 calls t300, 2 folds, Hero raises to t4125 all in, 3 folds

^ converting those took me maybe two minutes total.

Now the hands. I'm not as good with MTTs as I am with STTs but in general I think you can be open raising a little smaller - you'll get just as many hands to fold to a 2.5x open raise as you will to a 3x one, you get to control the size of the pot better when you get called and you lose less when someone shoves and you're forced to fold.

Second, reads are vital. Can you tell us anything about any of the opponents you're facing? Since these are MTTs and we can't tell just from the number of players at the table telling us the stage of the tournament we're at (long way from the money, bubble, ITM, etc) is important too.

The TT hand is an example where reads are important - against a drooler we might be OK to get in here but against an ordinary opponent a raise that small suggests that the villain wants action, meaning we're flipping at best but probably dominated and I think I probably fold. You're right at least about flatting, playing a bloated pot OOP when we hate pretty much all overcards and could even be in bad shape on an undercard flop would suck really hard.

The 99 hand seems OK, effective stacks are probably just deep enough for a set mine and we obv can't call that flop shove. Shoving preflop wouldn't win us that much and if we were called the best we could hope for is a flip.

In the AQs hand we've got a really awkward stack size, honestly don't know what the best thing to do here is. Probably depends how far from the money we are and how badly we need to take a risk in order to make a decent cash, IDK.

KTs again, you can open to about 600 instead of 750, get the same number of folds and save chips the times you're shoved over and have to fold.

KJs again reads would be really helpful - what kind of players are the limpers?

offtopic

Indeed, I format my hands manually.

/offtopic

I did state I have tried but having problems with the cardschat hand converter, any ideas? As for that decues cracked one, I've seen that one being brandished around but I tried to use that prior to posting the hands but it just pasted them as it was once I converted them, which options do you select in the deuces cracked hand converter?

When you say open raising 2.5x as opposed to 3x does this apply only when antes are in play and there is a lot of dead money in the pot? The reason I've asked this is because I've experimenting before with opening 2.5x and seem to get shoved on more because people tend to have this theory I'm raising weakish and then I'm in a spot where I don't know if they are generally thinking this or have me beat. So again I'm in a spot of if I should be calling or not.

The only hand where I thought I was in trouble was the one where I got re-raised when I was holding the T'T. The standard raise as opposed to the shove kind of got me thinking I was up against a bigger pair. I was low on chips at this point and thought "ok coin flip maybe A,k/A,Q etc but possibly a higher over pair" so I decided I needed to take the flip but expected to be behind. I didn't really think I'd get a better spot or better hand with my dwindling stack. He was quite a tight player from what I saw, so I guess the shove was a bit stupid in the end but this tournament was wearing thin on me as I did expect to be behind but thought I might get lucky lol.

When you put it in to that perspective it's an easy fold I guess I just wanted to bust or get lucky and double up as I was quite card dead for the most part. "should" of folded, you're right but my stack was dying rapidly and there was an of chance I could be up against A,K but even then I guess it's not an ideal spot.

Again, this was probably another difficult spot purely because both the raiser and the caller had high VP$IP stats + the initial raiser hadn't ever raised a hand prior to this one. I was tempted to come over the top and shove but I had a feeling, regardless I was being called so didn't feel comfortable so I thought but wasn't sure if the flat was ok here.

[quote=OzExorcist;1748895]In the AQs hand we've got a really awkward stack size, honestly don't know what the best thing to do here is. Probably depends how far from the money we are and how badly we need to take a risk in order to make a decent cash, IDK.[quote]

Yeah, this is one I come up with quite often, never sure of the best thing because of the 4x open raise, I think I'm always committed to call a shove with the money put in the pot along with the dead money so never sure exactly on the best course of action. I think personally I should be just shoving but I elected to just raise in the end, but again like you - not sure..

I had reads that the limpers where quite often trying to limp in pots. The only very reason I elected to limp here was because there was 4 or so in the pot, I knew there was 1k in dead money, which represented 25% of my stack if all fold and "if" I got called, I thought I'd of been a slight favorite because I put the limpers on suited connectors, Q'J.s and maybe small pocket pairs. Again though, I thought IF called, even if I was behind it wouldn't be by much but is this a spot where you might fold then?

Thanks for the reply by the way!

Thanks for converting OZ.

TT being a $10 tourny i'd just fold. Its bottom of your UTG range and OP probably has an understand of opening ranges from positions etc so needs a good hand to 3bet.

99 is fine.. if he doesn't have the ace he most likely has 88-KK.

AQs - Don't like the raise size atall. MP has 2400 and will have 1600 if he calls and the pot will be 1900 so you'd have to jam regardless of the flop (if he donk shoves and you miss it'd be tricky too). I'm not sure we can shove 22BB's as we have 4 people behind us who might wake up with a hand so maybe raise to 430 to try and get the pot HU?

KTs - Raise to 2x - 2.2x OTB with a good hand to make it easier to call, cheaper to c-bet and cheaper to fold if they jam.

KJ s Shoving over high blind limpers is a good play if you've seen them limp-fold before and they have a big VPIP. Look at your HUD as this move is read dependant (eg don't shove over a TAG who's limped for the first time).

99 hand is fine, KJ hand is fine, AQ and KTs raise smaller - AQ to 650 and KT to 600 IMO.

As for the TT hand depends on much he has been 3betting and what he thinks of you

Just use one like Deuces Cracked, the links are above. I'm pretty sure I just left it on the default options but go mess around with it for five minutes, it's really pretty straightforward. You can always press "preview post" before you submit to make sure it's displaying right too.


Like I said the bulk of my experience is in STTs but basically once blinds get past about 25/50 you should be able to start reducing your open raise size, for the reasons I stated above as well as the ones jbbb mentions. If people are really shoving lighter on you I sincerely doubt it's just because you made it 2.5x instead of 3x, there will be a whole heap of other factors to look at.

If you use firefox, here is a plug-in called Handfire for firefox that works good...

Ooops, it is not available for firefox 4.0.1

A basic one, which I'm unsure of the most profitable play here..

If I raise now for example, which I did it leaves me 18 blinds if I'm 3 bet. What play is optimal here? Obviously a fold is out of the question?

Can I call a 3bet shove or can I 4bet shove him? Most likely, depending on what he raises too - he probably won't be folding will he?

Or....is this just open shove in the cut off?

It's these basic situations I tend to not know what to do with..so thoughts would be appreciated.




Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t50/t100 Blinds + t10 - 9 players - View hand 1334960
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: t1940 M = 8.08
SB: t1745 M = 7.27
BB: t1725 M = 7.19
UTG: t3215 M = 13.40
UTG+1: t1340 M = 5.58
UTG+2: t2270 M = 9.46
MP1: t3115 M = 12.98
MP2: t1810 M = 7.54
Hero (CO): t2195 M = 9.15

Pre Flop: (t240) Hero is CO with 6 <font color='black'>♠</font> 6 <font color='red'>♦</font>
5 folds, Hero raises to t300, 3 folds

Is this an ok shove or not spot or terribad?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 2.2 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds 20 Ante (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

UTG (t6402)
UTG+1 (t4775)
MP1 (t1370)
MP2 (t2620)
CO (t2325)
Button (t1960)
SB (t1875)
Hero (BB) (t1338)

Hero's M: 3.48

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6, K
UTG calls t150, 6 folds, Hero bets t1318 (All-In), UTG calls t1168

Flop: (t2871) 9, 5, 10 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t2871) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2871) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: t2871

Results below:
Hero had 6, K (straight, ten high).
UTG had A, 3 (high card, Ace).
Outcome: Hero won t2871





PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 2.2 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds 25 Ante (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

MP1 (t5339)
MP2 (t4105)
MP3 (t1400)
CO (t2150)
Button (t5385)
SB (t2115)
BB (t2155)
UTG (t325)
Hero (UTG+1) (t2621)

Hero's M: 4.99

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 10, 10
UTG bets t300 (All-In), Hero raises to t2596 (All-In), 7 folds

Flop: (t1125) J, J, 7 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (t1125) 2 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t1125) J (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t1125

Results below:
UTG had 3, 8 (three of a kind, Jacks).
Hero had 10, 10 (full house, Jacks over tens).
Outcome: Hero won t1125



What about this iso re-shove? To loose or perfectly fine UTG+1?

Again, sorry..just want to know if this is too risky and loose shoving into the stack on my left or is it profitable?

Quite obviously SS stack range is going to be very wide?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 2.2 Tournament, 150/300 Blinds 40 Ante (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB (t4809)
UTG (t4180)
UTG+1 (t6355)
MP1 (t2820)
MP2 (t955)
MP3 (t7265)
CO (t2700)
Button (t7160)
Hero (SB) (t3941)

Hero's M: 4.87

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9, Q
3 folds, MP2 bets t915 (All-In), 3 folds, Hero raises to t3901 (All-In), 1 fold

Flop: (t2490) 6, 9, Q (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (t2490) 8 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t2490) 6 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t2490

Results below:
Hero had 9, Q (two pair, Queens and nines).
MP2 had 5, A (one pair, sixes).
Outcome: Hero won t2490

Whatever I'm doing with sixes there it isn't 3xing...either 220 and fold or shove, depends

Checking the K6 because the limper is UTG and therefore nearly always strong. TT hand is good. Q9 hand seems good too

really? Hmm, maybe this is a major leak for me then. The problem I find I have here is that, it's nearly min raise...whenever I seem to do that, there are far to many spots I feel I get shoved on here leaving me thinking "Am I beat or is this a perfect chance for him to think I'm really weak and get me to fold"...

Why 220 though pascal? Does this mean you're willing fold or something I dont get how or why I mean with 16blinds?

I don't raise fold below 18bb or so and you've got 20, so I don't hate it. I probably shove I guess, raise calling isn't awful either unless it's a nit who shoves on you. I probably mix them up But if you do raise, raise small.

When you're raising with an 'awkward-sized' stack, you should be looking ahead on the table, checking out other player's stacks sizes & tendancies & 'prior' to your raise you should already "KNOW" whether or not you'll be calling 'so & so' if they reraise allin. Think ahead in the hand always.

Yes, 'but' what if we're up vs. other players who know this... can't we then raise a bit wider (with intentions of stealing) knowing that they're thinking we're never folding, therefore causing them to tighten their range? (I actually listened to a podcast with pokerjamers & a couple others awhile ago, & they were talking about raise/folding on <20bb stacks, something a player would typically never do before but now were doing occasionally. I've seen da_professional doing this a fair bit too. Of course this is referring to 'meta-game' stuff amongst HSMTT regs. so obv. not applicable (in most cases) in lower buyin MTT). just thought I'd add it for 'confusion' purposes

Like I said above there are a load of other factors at play - I almost guarantee you villains aren't making big changes in their play against you just because you've made it 225 or 250 instead of 300 (unless you've got some obvious pattern where you 3x your good hands and 2.5x your bad ones or something).

You're almost certainly falling afoul of selective recall. Chances are you were getting shoved on whether you made it 2.25, 2.5 or 3x but you're choosing to read more into the times when you open lower and they shove.

Put it this way: it's almost impossible for changing your standard open raise from 3x to 2.5x to be a leak and as Pascal says you can even go a little smaller as blinds go up and effective stacks go down.

It probably makes sense that, I do most likely have selection memory when it comes to min raising and getting 3bet shoved, it just feels like it at times..

Obviously then, whats the best idea UTG with 6'6s for example? 3x or 2.5x or even fold?

18-20 is there really much of a difference at this point with the same hand? So you might fold it with 20blinds left, yet not fold if under 18blinds? Say we fold with the 3bet raise and we fold, this leaves us with 18blinds near enough to then hopefully find another decent hand within the space of a couple of hands or be dwindled down?

Yeah, I do try that, maybe another fault if I'm multi tabling..it's soo so difficult though at times. The problem I have, more than any is if I'm flat called, even in position or out, if checked too me, do we take a stab or check/fold unless we hit a monster flop with a marginal medium pair? I'd much rather raise bigger purely because then it gives people a chance to "think" before they think "oh pot odds, or good drawing hand I call"

I tend to think from personal experience I can take pots down regardless on the flop if I raised bigger to start with, with a min raise/2.5..it seems to get more difficult, again though like Oz said it could well be selective memory for this, going to have to take a look.


Thanks for the replies guys!

So, what are your thoughts here? It was almost instinct at the time, but as soon as I did it I wasnt so sure. I thought maybe it's a bit to loose, and if I was in the CO or BTN then it's ok, but what do you guys think?






Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t150/t300 Blinds + t40 - 9 players - View hand 1335851
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG+2: t7020 M = 8.67
MP1: t778 M = 0.96
Hero (MP2): t3415 M = 4.22
CO: t4010 M = 4.95
BTN: t2440 M = 3.01
SB: t4062 M = 5.01
BB: t3510 M = 4.33
UTG: t2150 M = 2.65
UTG+1: t3290 M = 4.06

Pre Flop: (t810) Hero is MP2 with 8 <font color='black'>♣</font> A <font color='black'>♣</font>
2 folds, UTG+2 calls t300, 1 fold, Hero raises to t3375 all in, CO raises to t3970 all in, 4 folds

Flop: (t7860) K <font color='black'>♣</font> Q <font color='red'>♦</font> Q <font color='black'>♣</font> (2 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: (t7860) 2 <font color='red'>♥</font> (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: (t7860) 8 <font color='black'>♠</font> (2 players - 2 are all in)

It depends - stack sizes, reads, stage of the tournament?

Stack size the same for example,

UTG: 18-20 holding 6'6s. Stack sizes, mmm at this stage usually I'm roughly medium/high range stack in comparison to the rest of the table, so apart from some shorties, the other stacks have some consideration to do.

Stage of tournament, final table just come on, 90player tournament I think, so everyone in the money.

I opt to either shove/fold but leaning more to fold? Is that good/bad and from MP+ shoving or open raising 2.3/2.5x?

Depends on the other players who are on those stacks (reads!!!). Typically from EP I'm folding (but.. I might be raising, lol).

Easy shove there with A8.

And 2bb doesn't make a huge difference but it's the idea that counts - below 15bb I reckon r/f is normally bad, you just want to maximise your fold equity when you shove

I know you say it's about reads and so on, maybe I rely on my HUD to much for that and make wrong calls/folds with regards to that so again if I'm multi tabling I can't really get many reads on people, not true ones anyway.

Another thing is, even the most tight of players, who understand the late stage shove/fold game and are actually "ok" players can call/shove very wide at this point so I'm unsure if reads are always key at these stages in tournaments?

Of course you can single out absolute donks who make the FT and call/shove everything.

Thanks for your insight though from EP "fold, but might be raising" haha

I sometimes regret folding in these spots, because I might not get another good hand or spot and dwindle down to nothing and end up shoving wide with some garbage.