AK Overrated?

Folding AK is no big deal. That is a way overrated hand. Unless you're in a freeroll or up against a short stack, you're almost always flipping. Good players don't call away (or even shove unless on short stack) all there chips with AQ, AJ, or weaker ace, which are the only hands you want to see when holding AK. I don't like to grind out a tournament for hours just to flip a coin with AK against QQ or JJ. If there's 2 or 3 all-ins in front of you, depending on the quality of the players, AK is an easy fold unless you have both players outchipped by more than double. I personally like to avoid big pots preflop unless I have a monster hand like AA or KK. I feel I can outplay most players after the flop. AK is a good hand to disguise also. If there is a raise and a call in front of me, most of the time I will just call with AK. If an ace or king hits the board, people find it hard to believe you have there KQ or AQ beat and you can get there chips after the flop. People are used to seeing every donkey autoshove with AK preflop. If ace or king doesn't hit the board, you could take a shot at stealing (with maybe the best hand anyway) or else it's easy to get away from if you think you're up against a real hand.

Don't get me wrong though, in a freeroll I almost never fold AK.

No, AK is under-rated because there are so many threads like these that say "Oh, its only a drawing hand" blah blah blah. But in fact, AK wins me more money than any hand other than AA & KK.

Wrong. I used to agree with you, but I've grown to understand that AK is a monster hand, usually worth a call or even a re-raise. You dominate any unpaired hand and are in a coinflip to any pair QQ or lower. Compare that to mid to low pair. You're behind to any higher pair and are coinflip to any to overcards.

Aliengenius said it well in his post in this thread: Overplaying A K

I didn't say I never reraise preflop with AK. It all depends on the players. When I do reraise it preflop, I want to take the pot right there though usually. I raise all kinds of hands preflop. When you are the aggressor, as you already know, you have a better chance of taking the pot. But in the right situation, it is smart to just call, or even fold AK.

BTW..Anyone who's won more money holding AK than any other hand except AA or KK is obviously not playing enough suited connectors.

It's all about the players, your table image, and position. There really is no black and white answer I guess. But a donkey will tell you to just instashove no matter what the scenerio.

wellll.. heres the thing.. ak of course is a coin flip when youre up against mid pairs and such...ak is more of a live cash game strong hand.. most online players done have any respect for a strong pre flop hand and just hope to suck out on you...try folding it sometimes and see how much money you save.

I personally hate Ak peroid, I've raised missed, continued just to get repopped, I limped missed, popped it and once again goten repopped, I've seen raised and I reraised, and they call I hit, bet out and then fold, I've seen almost every possible situation with Ak, and I can say i've lost more then my fair-share with it, so that's why I hate it

I don't hate AK, but I also son't think I've found the holy grail when I get them.

While it is true that it is the highest drawing hand, it is still a drawing hand.

I tend to play it aggressively, but I also don't have a problem laying them down, when I suspect I'm behind.

It Seems way overrated to me seems every time I have it I have to really push. or someone is going to bust it or better yet someone with the likes of Ace 5 will bust it cause they will pair with the 5

AK=underrated

Decent players make money with AK cause they play it well.

Bad or beginner players can lose a lot with AK cause it's hard as hell to play. Most of the time you're going to miss the flop and you'll have to rely on reads and good decision making to win with it.

AA is the hand that over rated....AK is a good hand but you have to know when to fold it like all hands it can be beat.

This thread sucks. No proof from any of the "drawing hand" crowd. The facts are these, if you're losing $$ with AK you're doing it wrong. If you think AA sucks more than AK, you're ....well....special. If you think I'm wrong then the numbers don't lie.

My top 10 hands at 50nl (65K hands):
top10.jpg (http://www.cardschat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15474&d=1228455631)

What do you do with your Ak, that i'm not doing with mine? Why is yours better then mine ?

ak is one of the best hands you can get and sometimes you meet with pocket pairs and still you have something like fifty fifty chance. and yeah you must play it agressive but you have to play clever too. there is no guarantee that you will win with ak but in poker you even dont get this guarantee for aa so like that.

I don't know. Are you sure you're really losing "all the time" with AK and this isn't just a case of selective memory? Do you have PT3 or HEM so you can tell just how well certain hands actually are performing? Post a few AK hands for analysis and I (as well as many others) will let you know if you're doing anything wrong.

you loose alot more than you win with AA.
If you pick up AA most off the time if you win
its only a small pot but people dont like throwing
them a way so they play them and if the pot is
big you could loose allot.AA is a good hand but
get s beat allot.

AA is still only a pair any 2 pair beats.

Do you have the ability to read? Great. Now use it to read my graph from about 4 posts up. I'll wait.

As you can clearly see, AA wins, over my sample, 1 more BB/100 than KK (another single pair hand I'm sure you think loses a lot more than it wins) which is 2 BB/100 better than QQ. There is no other hand that is even close to AA! Maybe you just need to work on your game?

I love when players debate if the best hand in poker is over rated or not. I think only rolled up trips in stud hi puts you in a more dominating position equity wise. However, aces in NLHE are probably better, since you can get all in preflop, where as with rolled up trips, you have to play all the streets out for the most part since stud is a limit game.

If aces don't earn you the most money out of any hand, then 1 of 2 things is happening:

1) You haven't played enough hands to have a statistically relevent sample.
2) You suck at poker.

I don't think they're overrated as such, I'm aware that a lot of people overplay them though. The things is, you can see a flop with them and if you don't hit something good or has a good chance of developing into something, and you're not an idiot, it's pretty easy to get from the hand without losing too much. For me, not overrated, but sometimes overplayed.... often by me

You're right I feel like an idiot for even having to debate the fact. I don't know why but these thread tilt me. Always have, probably always will.

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Putting the AG in LAG
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I posted these thoughts in another thread, but I think they are worth repeating here:

The advantages of AK are mostly in it's preflop value:

1. Fold equity. This is the biggest advantage of AK. For me it is almost alway a REraising hand preflop. For you to take advantage of this, you MUST play it aggressively (your opponent must fold). Small pairs can't really call you for fear that you have a bigger pair when you play it aggressively. If you do get called, even by something like QQ, you are still only a slight dog.

2. Pre-flop dominating hand. This is mostly applicable against donks who will call you with Ax soooooded. Inversely, you are only really dominated vs AA or KK (and you have about 30% vs KK).

3. Post flop your top pair always has top kicker when you hit.

Obviously when your opponent goes all in he has neutralized AK's biggest advantage as he can no longer fold. Against two random cards that don't include either and ace or a king you are not that big of a favorite with five to come, as other posters pointed out. But you don't ever really want to be calling an all in with very many hands (AA and KK excepted)-- YOU want to be the one doing the raising or pushing.

Just to look at it another way, let's compare AK to a small pair, say 55.

AK is a dominating hand. IF your raise is called you are (most likely) either:

1. way ahead (vs. a weaker ace)
OR
2. in a 50/50ish race.

With 55 you are (most likely) either:

1. way behind (vs. a bigger pair)
OR
2. in a 50/50ish race.

See the difference?
__________________

This is a nonsensical thread in the sense that those who "believe" that AK sucks or AA is over-rated think that just by stating their position vociferously it has as much validity as statistical results.

You will never progress as a player if you stick to your "beliefs." Kill the ego, examine the facts. VWHillbilly does a great service by posting his results. He's a good player and he successfully shows what you might expect from playing these hands well.

Last night I was in a tourney and my opponent called an early all-in holding AK. Was that a good use of the hand? I don't think so. Much of the hand's strength is in its fold equity, and when you are a caller you have none of that. You're simply calling with the best drawing hand and decalring yourself prepared to coinflip for all your chips.

AK is not over-rated. If I could have it every time, I would take it. But yes, you must play it well and be able to fold it. If you are losing money with it, you are not playng it well. Don't blame the hand; examine your play honestly.

And what's this about AA being the worst hand in poker? Get real.

I posted AG's little treatise on AK. I put the link on my first post, but it seems we're too busy defending our beliefs to consider the well-reasoned facts.

Gary

I agree with these. ^^^^^

I submit my stats over 108,219 hands, just for kicks:

top6hands.JPG (http://www.cardschat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15486&d=1228498820)
(NOTE: I looked at why my JJ's are so high and it's because my JJ sets get paid off quite a bit. A couple quad J's, too. )

A-K is a monster pre-flop, however, many players lose big pots by pushing post-flop without a hit, hoping that the opponent/opponents haven't. This is especially common, obviously, during lower blind levels when people tend to play more hands.

Big Slick

IMO, this is by far the best article we have on big slick submitted by Shermstick, way back when I was a newbie and have never had to ask about AK since.
I can't tell you how many times I have linked this, probabably about as many times as there is an "AK" thread and TBH, I never get tired of linking this article.

YOu can say what you want.AA does loose allot more than it should.AA is stilll just a pair.It is AA and everyone loves getting them but still only a pair.To better your hand you have to hit one off 2 Aces that are left or catch a lucky straight or flush.

Every time I read a thread thread like this I want to play poker real bad.
AK cna be played a lot of ways as everyone here has stated in one way or another. But I still think it's greatest advantage is pre-flop as AG so elequently showed us. It'll win you more money as you play more and understad it's true value as it pertains to YOUR game, not your opponents.

The "problem" with AK is that it's difficult to play. On the other hand, it's a great hand because if you miss it's very easy to let it go, whereas many people will clutch their AA/KK to death, refusing to pay attention to the signs that they're beaten.

The value you get from AK is largely twofold:

1. You dominate Ax and Kx hands that people love to play. Yes, everyone remembers when they raised 6xBB and you flop A 8 3 and someone with A3s stacks you. But it is mathematically irrefutable that AK will absolutely crush any Ax or Kx hand over the long haul. When people play Ax vs. your AK, they are making a profound mistake, and you should be happy that they are putting their money in down 3-1.

2. You must utilize the folding equity of AK. Let's say the blinds are 100/200 and someone raises to 500 UTG with 99. He gets a call from AJ in the MP and you have AK in the BB. Your stack is 3,000 and UTG has $5,000, MP has 3,600. You reraise all-in. Now, maybe UTG puts you on 99 and calls, figuring he's ahead. But you could easily have a higher pocket pair and he's dominated.

What AK is, is a semi-bluffing hand. This is the most powerful weapon AK has -- you represent Aces or Kings and they can't know that you don't have AA or KK. Many times you will pick up this nice pot as UTG is loathe to call off most of his stack with just 99 when he can fold and be healthy. Meanwhile, AJ is getting squeezed and is looking at calling off his stack with a dominated hand. Even if you are called you're not in terrible shape, even with one of your As out vs. TT. Obviously you'd welcome the call from AJ. You don't need to get folds very often for this to become a very profitable play, because you're close to breaking even when you do get called (and yes, you will get calls sometimes from AQ/AJ/AT/KQ).

If you simply call in the BB, you brick, the board comes down T 7 2, UTG bets half the pot and you fold...you curse under your breath "AK is soooo overrated." But it's your fault for simply calling rather than reraising when you're out of position with a hand that needs to see all five cards.

I watch so many players get way to attached to that A K and end up going broke tryin to hit one or the other. Just because you have big slick does'nt mean your a winner. Its all about the way you play them.
Like the song says "You gotta know when to hold em and when to fold em"

As much as people lost with AK they get madder and madder..AK is definitely under rated because you never think about your kicker until you lose..AK and AA are the best just as someone else stated..

I agree with you.ANy hand can be beat.Ak is a good hand but you have to be carefull how you play it.Different ways to play AK depending on the table you are at.

this is an excellent article. i just got finished reading it. i played it about the same and have had good results and dont remember those but i do remember my ak going up against the a7 and them 2 pairing lol. selective memory at its finest

This might be a stupid question, but in your chart is the amount won a total of only the times you won with the hand or a net profit with the hand?

Not a stupid question (hell for this thread it's brilliant), it's the net profit for the hand.

So from my chart I've had AA 282 times and won 89.36% of those times for a total profit of $1219.90. Did you catch that? Of the 282 times I've been dealt AA at nl50, I've won the pot 252 times! Bet I can name almost all of those 30 loses though!