Whats so good about Mtts?

I love having cardschat to vent on its so forfilling!


So heres the thing, you pay a set amount, to potentially win 100 times your buy in or there abouts, sounds like fun.

but how many times have you played your best poker using the greatest strategys ever devised and come up short of the money? or better yet come out with less money than you would have in the same amount of time on a cash table.

Im more of a grinder cash table type, who likes to see results at the end of the hour, session, day kinda thing.

so i dont really play tourneys or sit and goes, for one main reason i dont see enough wins to justify playing them.

I have just been playing for about 40 mins in a $2, 180 player mtt on stars, and i had been playing super tight i got a win early on so i let the blinds go a little, it was getting to 200 blinds and my stack is back where i started 1550, i am 2 away from the bb, and i get dealt KK so i raise 600, it folds all the way to the button who raises me all in, i call. he shows JJ, board comes J 10 10 5 6.

the poker doesnt matter at this point but, recently i cant seem to get stuck into tourneys... because of hands like that, and it seems like if im short stacked at this point the tourney is pretty much over to lady luck.


Plus i prefer the poker in a cash table, i dont understand why im not good at long tournements as cash table games could be seen as the biggest tourney there is!

any advice? encouragement?

thanks

tournys and cash games are not the same. you should be playing tight while playing the cash games. in tournament poker the luck factor goes up because of the increasing blinds. this means playing tight solid poker in the beginning stages than getting more aggressive in the latter stages. its very tough to play tight a whole tourny and win. try to pick your spots against the middle stacks or the players you have a good feel for. hope this helped.

I think it really depends on the player. Some people lend themselves to cash better than tourneys. You really need the right mindset to play MTT. Bad beats are everywhere but with cash you just buy back in and keep rolling. Somehow it hurts worse with tournaments. Thats just my opinion though.

I enjoy playing cash a million times more than MTTs. That said MTTs serve a great purpose to the poker economy. When someone plays a $10 tourney and wins $5k, do you think they're going to cash it out and just keep playing $5 tourneys? Many of them decide to go play high-stakes cash and dump all they won and more back into the poker economy because they think they're great after they won a tourney even though a lot of it was luck.

Also with the way satellites work tourneys like the million/warmup on Sunday on Stars are super-soft for the stakes. Buy into a $200 cash game and most people are competent. Buy into the Sunday million and you get so many super-donks.

To me tourneys are for the big score. I use the sit and gos and cash games to slowly build bankroll. Some great tourney players who can go 2 plus years with never winning.

Yeah, I think it's all about tastes really. It's probably easier to make money playing ring games, but most poker players aren't there for the money. Poker is a hobby. In that case, play the game you most enjoy - for me that's MTTs.

For me, playing MTTs is about the cream rising to the top in the long run. I think that if I play more hands against more players, my skill edge is going to play out in the long run. A mediocre player can play 100 tournaments and never cash. But a good player keeps getting in the money, in the money, in the money - then gets a good run of cards and makes the final table or wins.

I think, the more you are willing to gamble (Brunson), the better you are going to do at ring games. The more you are willing to patiently play your skill edge (Cloutier), the better you are going to do in tournaments.

my advice: read harrington on hold em tournament strategies I found that to be the best tournament poker book around he really helped me alot with the math of determining the best time to start shoving all your chips into the pot his "M" value is exactly the info I needed to start crushing the MTTS now I play MTTS almost exclusively because exactly like you said a win nets you sometimes 100 buyins or more!

IMHO, go out early and go do something else. OR Build a big stack and have a shot at making the final table.

You're never gonna make the final table or rarely will you reach the final table if you're just surviving the bubble, so why not take the gamble and shoot for the FT?

And on days where you seem to hit with any two cards, at least play ATC in late position and stop being nit. Yes, you may showdown very bad looking starting hands. But trust me, when your oppoenent knows you're hitting cards eventhough you're playing like a donk. They'll be wary of you and try not to get in your way unless they really have a hand.

Having said that, do not be over aggressive and turn yourself into a spewtard. Else, you'll be nothing but a donk.

Just my 0.02cts.

something to add to my last post,

if u've been card dead and is just making the bubble, aim to be ITM first. Be realistic.

As already said, the luckfactor in MTT's is (at least in the short run), much higher than in cashgames.

You got the rising blinds and have to make a move here and there, to stay alive.

There was a thread with some MTT-Tips from Annette Obrestad:
http://www.cardschat.com/f11/nice-an...rticle-143048/

Good MTT-players cash in around 15% of their tournaments, but WIN some of them, or get close at least.

The big money in MTT's is in first places, so you have to go for WINNING IT, not to survive and cash (for maybe twice your buy-in...)

Great Cash game players are usually horrible tournament players. Tournament poker is a different monster. I'll open up a cash table or two while I'm playing a tournament. That way I'm still grinding cash and I have a chance to score big in an mtt. Most online tournaments are hard just due to the volume of people playing them. Not to mention you start out short stacked and are usually trying to stay ahead of the increasing blinds. You do have to play tight and get some good hands that actually hit to make it far. Tournaments are like a marathon. Cash is a short sprint. You can think of each hand in cash like a different game. You can also quit cash whenever you want. You can't do that in a tournament. They are two verry different styles of poker.

I have moved to cash myself, just due to the fact you can make more on a consistant bases. however, I still work some MTT's in there for the chance at that big pay day!!!!

Aww cmon man, dont say it like that I placed 2nd in a 3k rebuy MTT and I have a BR of $400 now. You make me feel like I placed luckily and that all my losses lately are my confidence bringing me to my downfall

Seriously though, I play the 5k daily and I placed like 5 out of 6 or 7 times ive played it. No big wins, just $10 here, $20 there. I figure if I keep trying, im bound to make another deep run again, Ive had chances but I mess up in the later levels sometimes and it throws me off.

lol nothing personal, but normal human nature shows that when people win big they tend to not realize that their winnings are indeed finite. I believe the statistic is like 75% (maybe more?) people who win the big prize in the lottery are in debt (not just broke, they now have negative money) within 5 years after they win. Generally, people just suck at managing money. Good example is also there is a 1/2 reg who pretty much sucks at 1/2 and makes all his money from fpps. He won the Sunday Million one weekend. Recently he was listed as the biggest loser on tableratings because he lost over 50k at high-stakes games. Can't beat 1/2, move up to 25/50 where they respect your raises?

Anyway, I applaud you for sound money management. When (not if ) I win the warmup or million I may take a small shot at higher limits but treat it as a budget that I'm spending, and only a little bit, part would be for a pretty good vacation, part would go into my long-term bankroll, and I'd save the rest. Luckily for us most people when they win big don't have a plan like that, they dump it back into the poker economy .

tournament poker is different than cash games and it takes a different mentality to be good at each. Some players can switch gears and do both well but most people probably can't. I find I'm a much better tournament player than cash player so I stick to tournaments.

It might be psychological but I bet different personality types do better at each.

The thing I don't like about MTT'S is that they take too long. In the freerolls, I like a 7 or 8 minute blind structure, otherwise you play for hours and it is just not worth the time you put in. In the biggies, it is ok to have a longer blind structure, because the payout is high. In the bigger MTT's, say 5k - 25k, I would still prefer to see the blinds increase at 10 minutes. In the huge MTT's, longer is ok, but the darn things just take too long. Cash games are nice because your results are immediate.

well, you never see a freeroll cash game. thats one thing MTTs has going for it.

Theres def. alot of dif approaches to playing MTT's, and you have gotten some great replies,,,
I personnaly do better in tourneys than in ring game, so as far as BR mngt for me, I like the potential payout vs the fixed amount that I will loose if I dont cash in a MTT
I do try to earn buy ins from ring games, but find if I stay to long, I end up giving it back,, lol
guess its just what u like to do and what style fits u personnaly, I luv the challenge of a MTT, it suits my style of play,, so thats what works for me
GL

Well, thats the thing about multis, theyre not so much different as cash games. the thing about multis is like you said you can win so much more with a small buyin. multis you tend to bet more and bluff a little more unlike cash games. i prefer cash games because in the time it takes to pay 2 dollars and win 100 is about 3 to 4 hrs. when you can do that at the cash games in about 20-40 minutes

Advice?... you play what ya like, and you'll usually invest more time into learning what you like.
Personally, mtt's are my favourite (maybe not the $2 180plyr. games.. actually for sure not). If you like grinding away at cash tables.. then why not stick with it? For me, I find it boring.
In an mtt for sure you can even be doing great, playing fantastic & then take a couple of brutal suckouts and POOF, out you go. This might even happen to you ten tourneys in a row.. BUT.. there's nothing quite like the feeling of going deep in an MTT.

i agree, watching people underneath you go out, while you sit there and eye up what prize money you are automatically entitled to if you suck out right? its always a good feeling, i have been there many times, and franky i look back and think i must of been lucky or a better player back then or something,

i havent placed in mtt's in over a year now, through lack of entering them, among suck outs and the like.

BUT.. imo there is nothing quite like the feeling of litrally taking every penny off your opponent, when they are being silly with their money, seriously they hand it over its ridiculous. and being rewarded instantly for that amazing check raise on the river with the nuts

Ya think? Based on what kind of statistics would bring you to the conclusion that 'many of them' decide to do this??
Personally I've ground my way along in cheap sngs ($6 - $11), low buyin cash tables (10 $ 25NL) and mostly cheap mtts (priv. ones and a handful at $26). I've always saved at least half of my winnings with goal being to be rolled to play the $26 - $55's & up on a regular basis. I think this same route is shared among many who play mtts.

I'm far more intrigued to follow the paths of online MTT players, the one's with net profits of 1/4 mill & up (there are ALOT of them). 'Many' of them also seem to be quite good in all aspects of the game but with obvious preference to MTT play.

Like I said previously, I really think it all comes down to what one's preference is in poker. If you like playing the cash tables.. then you're probably invest the time to get good at it (same if you like sngs or MTTs). I think MTTs are the coolest. What a blast when your hands tend to hold up, your stack is building and you're already I.T.M. Woo Hoo!!!! Nothing quite like it in poker for me. Stack a guy off on the cash table... pfff.. big deal (for me that would be what... $20 or $25.... boring imo). Compare that to shooting for 4 digits or maybe even 5... I'd take that anyday!!