WCOOP Main Event - AJKHoosier1 is a complete idiot!

Ok, so I have copied the following from the WCOOP Main Event final table. There are 5 people left, and this ass AJKHoosier1 is being just plain childish and greedy! It is kind of long, but interesting to read. This guy thinks he is so good, then why is he the short stack? If I were liberace, I wouldn't have agreed just so this guy get's knocked out and does not make as much as he could have. He says something about his backers are saying NO. They are making more money than they backed him for no matter what...... I don't understand assholes!


StaffBryanS [Host]: As you wish. One moment, please.
ShoesRDurrty: dammit, favre just threw a pick 6
ShoesRDurrty: =instatilt
StaffBryanS [Host]: Okay. Numbers ready. Two important things to remember. (Please no one type anything until all the numbers are published.)
AJKHoosier1: right away gotta say im prob not doing it
AJKHoosier1: but curious
StaffBryanS [Host]: 1. In any arrangement, you must leave $200,000 aside to be awarded to the eventual Champion. This money cannot be chopped. The bracelet will go to the winner as well.
Markush13: ok
StaffBryanS [Host]: 2. This is of course only way to chop the remaining money up, and no one is obligated to accept any deal.
ShoesRDurrty: yea fair enough just wanna check or w/e
StaffBryanS [Host]: Having said that, the numbers by chip count chop is:
StaffBryanS [Host]: [Please do not type anything until all numbers are published.]
StaffBryanS [Host]: ckingusc: $1,065,432
StaffBryanS [Host]: liberace: $1,600,249
StaffBryanS [Host]: AJKHoosier1: $672,542
StaffBryanS [Host]: ShoesRDurrty: $781,153
StaffBryanS [Host]: Markush13: $866,718
AJKHoosier1: ok this isnt happening lol
AJKHoosier1: not even all that close
AJKHoosier1: first off liberace ur giving some up 100%
AJKHoosier1: and i need like 80k
ckingusc: my quote "yeah ajk is never taking that"
AJKHoosier1: so lemme know.
Markush13: lol.. 950k minimum
liberace: i will take 1.3 plus play for the 200000
AJKHoosier1: yeah theres just no way 1.6m and play for 200 so we need to try to make this work
AJKHoosier1: if mark needs 950 and i need 750
Markush13: heh.. AJ 750 too good
ckingusc: if liberace is willing togive up the money it isnt
AJKHoosier1: i am getting absolutely destroyed in those numbers
ckingusc: fwiw im not budging
AJKHoosier1: its not even remotely close
ShoesRDurrty: i was gonna ask for more so im def not budging
ShoesRDurrty: im fine w/ my cut tho
AJKHoosier1: ok then if libe
AJKHoosier1: is giving up 300
AJKHoosier1: i need 80 of it
AJKHoosier1: or no deal
ckingusc: that givesmarkush more then he watned
AJKHoosier1: if other two are fine
ShoesRDurrty: if mark is geting up to 950 i want 800
Markush13: 960k is good
ShoesRDurrty: thats only 19 more
AJKHoosier1: lol no
AJKHoosier1: be fair
Markush13: you will have that
liberace: we still play fro 200000 right?
AJKHoosier1: yes
Markush13: ye
ShoesRDurrty: haha just want a chance at 1mil
ckingusc: lol
ckingusc: think of tax reasons under 1mil is good!
ShoesRDurrty: haha
AJKHoosier1: ok so
AJKHoosier1: i want 80 of that
Markush13: ok.. so me 960k , AJ 750k
AJKHoosier1: mark wants 90
Markush13: shoes 800k
AJKHoosier1: then go 20k to cking and 10k to shoes
AJKHoosier1: or wait
AJKHoosier1: my math is way off
AJKHoosier1: lol
ShoesRDurrty: lol
ckingusc: lol
AJKHoosier1: nvm all of that
ShoesRDurrty: he wont have to give up 300 i dont think
ShoesRDurrty: itll be a bit less
AJKHoosier1: all i know is i need 80K+ my chop
AJKHoosier1: and i will accept
AJKHoosier1: anything less and i wont
AJKHoosier1: u guys can work out the rest
ShoesRDurrty: mark needs 95
ShoesRDurrty: to get to 960
Administrator: 625 FPP Qualifier to the $1 Million Turbo Takedown begins in 5 minutes. Register now at T109676398 under the Tourney/All tab.
ShoesRDurrty: i need 20
ShoesRDurrty: to get to 800
ShoesRDurrty: so thats 20+80+95
ShoesRDurrty: is what he needs to give up
ShoesRDurrty: 195
liberace: done
ShoesRDurrty: host, can you type up the new terms?
Markush13: ye
StaffBryanS [Host]: Certainly. One moment.
AJKHoosier1: hold on guys
AJKHoosier1: need to discuss w/ backers
AJKHoosier1: acutally go ahead
AJKHoosier1: lets see what htis comes out to
Markush13: gogo
Administrator: $5.50 PLO8 tourney w/ $1,000 guaranteed begins in TWO minutes. Register now @ T109499987 under the Tourney/All tab.
StaffBryanS [Host]: ..
StaffBryanS [Host]: Alright, here we go.
StaffBryanS [Host]: Again, please... wait until the numbers are all out before typing anything.
StaffBryanS [Host]: ckingusc: $1,065,432
StaffBryanS [Host]: liberace: $1,405,249
StaffBryanS [Host]: AJKHoosier1: $752,542
StaffBryanS [Host]: ShoesRDurrty: $801,153
StaffBryanS [Host]: Markush13: $961,718
StaffBryanS [Host]: $200,000 and the bracelet to the winner.
AJKHoosier1: not to sound like a total dbag but im #1 in cardplayer opoy and #2 on pocketfives tournament rankings i think that should count for something
Markush13: ok
AJKHoosier1: and now i sound like a total dbag
StaffBryanS [Host]: If you agree to the above numbers, please type 'I accept this deal.'
ShoesRDurrty: u did get 75k more
AJKHoosier1: but oh well
ShoesRDurrty: ill agree to those numbers
AJKHoosier1: 1.4
AJKHoosier1: still seems egregious
liberace: i accept deal
Markush13: I accept this deal
ckingusc: i accept
AJKHoosier1: lib im being told flat out i need a little more
AJKHoosier1: not completely my call
Markush13: dude...
Markush13: a very good deal for you
ckingusc: but ajk u know imgonna suck out on u
ckingusc: u didnt calc that
Markush13: only 524k for 5th
AJKHoosier1: ive played this stack and these kind of situations more than just about anyone im not trying to be an ahole
AJKHoosier1: im not planning on getting 5th mark = (
AJKHoosier1: 30k more from lib
AJKHoosier1: and im good
Markush13: i am sure...
liberace: i would give it up but is it fair to othyers?
ShoesRDurrty: thats fine i guess
ckingusc: as long as mine stays, i dont care
ckingusc: its up to u lib
AJKHoosier1: ok then 30 more from liberace to me
Markush13: as u wish.. i agree
AJKHoosier1: write up the numbers
liberace: ok
StaffBryanS [Host]: One more time with the numbers... standby, please.
StaffBryanS [Host]: ckingusc: $1,065,432
StaffBryanS [Host]: liberace: $1,375,249
StaffBryanS [Host]: AJKHoosier1: $782,542
StaffBryanS [Host]: ShoesRDurrty: $801,153
StaffBryanS [Host]: Markush13: $961,718
AJKHoosier1: ok fine agree
liberace: i agree
StaffBryanS [Host]: In the middle: the bracelet and $200,000
ShoesRDurrty: agree
ckingusc: i agree
Markush13: i agree
StaffBryanS [Host]: We have a deal.
StaffBryanS [Host]: Congratulations to each of you!
Administrator: APPT-Auckland: 800+R FPP turbo to Sep 28th Qualifier starts in 5 minutes. To register see T109456855 under the APPT/FPP Satellites tab.
AJKHoosier1: gla
AJKHoosier1: gg congrats etc
Markush13: gg
StaffBryanS [Host]: We'll re-start the tournament now... best of luck to each of you.
liberace: gg
ShoesRDurrty: gg guys, lol nice deal ajk
StaffBryanS [Host]: Dealer! Cards, please.
ShoesRDurrty: pretty sick for u
Dealer: Game #20619419056: liberace wins pot (480000)

Well.....now since he talked everybody else into dropping their cash to give him more money he has screwed himself. He could have made more money just saying NO instead of GIVE ME MORE MONEY!

If I am that good to be chip leader in that tourney I would have told him to F-off and play for it.
But of course I am not that good and I would just be crying that I am getting over 1mil I would do anything to get it over with lmao

lol yeah I would be crying right now knowing I had 1.3Mill comming my way!

and LMAO at this I bet his "backers" are mad he didnt just flat out say no heh

yeha AJK got a good deal...btw I opr'd half he FT and many were negprofit before this wowowoowoow

Hey, the guy knows how to negotiate, he talked himself up 110k - which is a lot. 30k is still a lot of money - and liberace was a bad negotiator in that he flat out said he was willing to take 1.3 mill - so why would someone at the table let him get 1.4, when they know he's willing to take 1.3. Knowing liberace wanted the deal to work, AJ took advantage of it to get that last 30k. He should have first found out what everyone needed to get the deal to work and he coulda saved himself that last 30k -but at the end of the day he still won over 1.3 million which is crazy!

I fail to understand how a man who negotiates himself $110k more than he was originally going to get is a "complete idiot."

YEAH THAT MARKMUSH GUY GOT HIS SEAT INTO THE TOURNEY THE DAY OF ( $215 sat) congrats to all and USA USA hehehehehee

^^This, he's actually most of an idiot for taking the deal if he believed he was the best player left imo

Well i think there all idiots for choping but i whould say AJK is the least idiotic of them,HE TALKED HIM SELF INTO $110K!

btw i will never understand why Lib choped,he had almost half the chips in play at that point.

I beleive the winner had a series of major suckouts on the final table against the then chip leader!

AJK is my new hero, brilliant table talk imo.

Ok, let me re-phrase what I said... AJK is an absolute IDIOT!! He made a deal and actually lost money if you look at the origional standings of the prize pool before the deal. He ended up getting third, which is a nice come back from his stack when they were down to 5. But he lost over $600,000. liberace ended up making the best deal with his second place finish and first place money.

What I was meaning about him being an idiot is because he was being an arrogant ASS! I don't give two shits who you are, how good you are, what place you rank, play the game and go with what life gives you.

(a) Stars chip chop deals are skewed slightly against the shorter stacks, especially in 5-way deals.

(b) He is a pretty damn good donkament player

(c)

This is the reson im against chops(then again i never play anything where a chop could actualy be live changing).
This still doesnt change the fact that AJK got him self a great deal,he was shortstacked and things not looking good.
At the time the deal was aggreed it was in his favour securing more money since he looked to be the next out.

remember when they said AJK was getting a deal he said he wasnt planning on getting 5th...so really it seemed weird that he wanted to get more money..but it was just suck out insurance imo

As with most things poker, you can't base decisions retrospectively on results. I've made a few chops (not for anything like this amount) and it's about reducing variance in situations that don't arise too often.

So you make the deal, then play it out, but the shape of deal related to the actual outcome isn't hugely relevant.

Chopping based on chip count favors the big stack, not the short stack-- so you should almost always agree if you are chip leader (if not taking into account skill differences, etc.)

Chopping based on ICM is a more fair way to go, especially if you are not chip leader.

good point. his ranking and experience which he mentioned were not really relevant to discussing the chop. and honestly if he is so good, why does he even need backers? seems he would have plenty of his own money.

These tourney are extremly varience high so having backers is just a way to decrese varience.

i'm not a big fan of final table deals altogether....just play the game out and may the best man win!!

That's exactly it, very often they don't

I understand chops, don't know if I would ever do one, but this one was crazy. I would feel like crap knowing that I came back to take third, but was still stuck with the 5th place money. I would feel good however if I were the first place chop that did recieve second!

I guess I'm not to firm on chops because anything can happen and binding yourself to less or more money has it's pros and cons.

I don't care how good you are, when your 22 years old and ranked #1 on a website, don't boast about it, it can come back to bite you in the ass.

The very act of making the chop is a huge impact on the outcome in itself. People will play very differently, depending on the seed of RNG the cards themselves may well be different. So thinking this way is entirely the wrong way to approach it.

It's like people who point out they folded K3 when the flop comes 333 as if it has any relevance. They still made the right decision.

There is an excellent explanation from a top player with backers on last week's Stars VIP Pokercast, episode 40. It's a segment interview of Paul Smith (scr: uclabruinz). Paul is a practicing attorney who plays with backers. The essence of the subject of backers is that the backers put up the entry and from any profits, they have to absorb the entry fees while the player pockets his profits, entry FREE.

Paul has the money to back himself and they address this in detail. Worth listening to.

As alluded to above, there's a suggestion that the "backers" in the OP were fictitious, and that whole routine was just an angle shoot on AJK's part.

Particularly if that was the case, I doff my cap to the guy. Quality work. Douchey, to be sure, but quality none the less.

Oz >> I agree that the comments were likely an angle shoot. I was commenting on 'face's' post about backers in general and the op using his own funds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irexes The very act of making the chop is a huge impact on the outcome in itself. People will play very differently, depending on the seed of RNG the cards themselves may well be different. So thinking this way is entirely the wrong way to approach it.

On Stars, it would have some relevance. Yes, folding the K3 might have been the right decision, while the 333 still would have been the board cards. Stars presets the entire 52 card deck before the first card to a hand is dealt, delivering the board cards just as a live table would. Minus the burn cards, which are unnecesasary online.

I was watching this final table, and I think AJK was playing on the fact he knew the chip leader was willing to go down to 1.3, meaning he had room to try and squeeze extra money out of him.

I also think this left ShoesRDurrty with a raw deal. If I was ShoesRDurrty I would have asked for more after AJK did the second time.

ShoesRDurrty had over 5 million chips, AJK only had about 3.5 million, yet ShoesRDurrty only got less than 20k more than AJK. I was very suprised when they didn't ask for me after this.

Which doesn't change my point at all in that folding K3 is still the right decision in the long term regardless of the outcome after that decision is made.

Same is true of chops.

I suggest we get a large group of CC'ers into the next humongous game and all get to the final table so we can discuss a chop and then write volumns about the deal making process.

Wow, staking Rex in next years WCOOP, has exciting implications imfo!

This is just silly. He was in position to get 5th, but guaranteed himself $110k more than he would have gotten if he had, indeed, finished 5th. So, he talked himself into $110k, at which point it became winner takes all for $200k more. You are being results oriented. Do not call this man an idiot.

Oh, I'm sorry...........He's an idiot! and an ASS!!

Jeez. I guess the larger amount of money makes people do stranger things. I watched KC's final table where he won $13K and a chop was barely even mentioned. (I think it was mentioned once, but was ignored amongst some trash talking observers.)