Update on how the Poker sites have responded to the Internet Gambling ban

Sounds like some of the sites Are Not giving up, thats good news for us.
buck

Dear fellow poker player, I am a member of the Poker Players Alliance, and I think that you should join as well. The Poker Players Alliance is the one voice for Poker players and the game they love on Capitol Hill. The PPA actively lobbies Members of Congress to ensure that your ability to play internet poker is protected from the Internet Gambling Prohibition that passed in the House of Representatives 317-93. By joining the PPA, your voice is heard on Capitol Hill, along with over 100,000 American members. In addition to the PPA T-shirt, lapel pin, membership card and keychain, you will receive important information on what is happening on Capitol Hill and how it might affect you, and alerts that instruct you on how best defend the game from this threat to Internet Poker. Please go to: http://www.pokerplayersalliance.org, or to join the PPA: https://www.pokerplayersalliance.org/join.phpThank you for learning about this very important organization. "Brief Analysis of Internet Gambling Prohibition Act (Attached to Safe Port Act)First the bill does not make poker playing illegal on the Internet at a Federal Level,although it will make it much more difficult to enjoy “your game” on-line. As we havementioned before we are immediately working on your behalf to obtain an exemption forPoker prior to the financial enforcement provisions are finalized (estimated between 3 to9 months). This is the most important thing that the Poker Players Alliance and itsmembers can do in the short term.This version of the Internet Gambling Prohibition Act that amended the Safe Port Actcontains no amendment to the 1961 Wire Act. However this bill provides additionalenforcement powers to the Wire Act that will presumably be applied to wagering onPoker. Although Poker is a skill game and even the Department of Justice recentlytestified in the April 2006 Judiciary Hearing that “games subject to chance” clause maynot apply to “games such as Poker”, it is likely that they will take a broad brush approachto enforcement and use these tools defined by this prohibition act to restrict your abilityto access poker sites and fund your accounts as you have done in previously.The enforcement mechanisms as it relates to Internet Poker falls into two broadcategories:FinancialThe Internet Gambling Prohibition amendment will require financial institutions tomonitor and block your funding of your poker accounts, whether you use Credit Cards,ACH, Stored Value Cards, electronic checks (debits), electronic funds transfers orphysical checks. Within 270 days the Federal Reserve Board and the Attorney Generalwill proscribe policies and procedures with which banks and other financial institutionswill enforce this act to monitor and block financial transactions. Banks are absolved ofany liabilities by the Federal Government by a “reasonableness test” in complying withthis legislation. We assume this to be applied liberally given the consequences forfinancial institutions who not comply. Although it is unclear how a financial institutioncould block a transfer to a personal account off-shore, but for most players it will bedifficult to enjoy the game they love. Additionally is likely to very costly for financialinstitutions to “play the morality police”, but they are under order of the FederalGovernment to comply.Internet Hyperlink BlockingThe IGP amendment requires that “Interactive Computer Services”, essentially InternetService Providers (ISPs), remove or disable access to internet links and hyperlinks “thatreside” on the ISPs servers to “Internet Gambling” upon written notice from a StateAttorney General, or the Attorney General of the United States. There is no affirmativemonitoring provision for ISPs, but no liability for compliance.The exemptions included in the “Prohibition” are for wagering on Horseracing, IntrastateLotteries, Intrastate Gaming (where legal), Indian Reservations, and playing FantasySports, but nothing yet for Poker. This must change.The Poker Players Alliance will renew its fight to obtain separate treatment for a greatgame of skill, poker, and a community game. In then next several months, this will beour focus, to ensure that Poker is protected from this outrageous intrusion into the lives of70 Million poker players.Long term we seek to have Poker affirmatively legalized, licensed, regulated and taxedon a Federal level. You have our commitment on this."This was writtain by:MichaelBolcerek President Poker Players Alliance

P.S. Nick & Admin's > I hope this webpage is not against the rule's, im just trying to help protect our right's to play.


SHERMSTICK

bush

Question: if there is a time set, when is the president expected or supposed to sign the bill into law?

I'm curious if I should empty my Party account before this happens or if I'll still be able to get my money out after...

Does this mean that some of the poker sites will shut down, or does it mean that they will focus more on european players?

Party have said in their statement that they will now focus on Europe and other markets.

Gambling is legal in all the major European countries, so they have a solid business opportunity there. I guess their greatest concern right now must be to be able to point to a stable future market to reassure investors, because their share price has gone into free-fall on the London Stock Exchange.

So..... does this mean they will stop americans from using their site? That would seem VERY stupid for profits..

As long as we can get money into their system it shouldnt be a legality issue?

I am sure ways can be found for Americans to fund Poker accounts. Offshore sites are NOT going to turn down money from the U.S. and will be actively looking for ways to receive it.

What is more of a threat is the possibility that ISP's in the States will be forced to block links to Poker sites from within the U.S.. CNN has been reporting that this is the case.

If true, you will NOT be able to play poker online at all so funding your account will be irrelevent.

The technology exists to do this as it is widely use in countries like China, Korea and Iran. Now it seems the U.S. is joining the list of totalitarian countries with a censored Internet.

Time for you Yanks to get rid of that gang of Fascists that are running your country into the ground! Good luck with your mission!

I've emailed Party Poker twice in the past 2 days asking if they will still allow people to cash out the money in their accounts after the act is signed into law and have gotten no reply. I've always received a reply to any question I asked their support within 3 hours until now...

Unless anyone can get a definitive reply to that question, it might be wise to cash your money out of Party Poker.

Even if a company is pulling out of the US market, then you will still get your money. A company of that size, who's on the stock market, will not and cannot screw (tens of) millions of people.

It might be wiser not to panic, and not to encourage others to panic

Party is worth more money than a lot of third world countries. They don`t need to rob small-scale customers of their ten-dollar bankrolls.

If they haven`t answered you, they`re probably just busy. I should imagine it`s stressful in their offices right now.

Typical foreign ultra liberal trash, 100% braindead. If Bush and friends were the only guys voting to ban internet gambling it would not pass. The bill will become law because it (unfortunately) has widespread support from both major parties.

The US has a lot of problems and a lot of dumb politicians, but it is much of the rest of the world that is being run into the ground, and has been for decades/centuries. And the people running our country can't be fascists, because if they were you would love them. Anti-American left-wing trash all over the world love fascists, commies, and dictator thugs of all forms. Our leaders might be incompetent, but the fact that they are so hated by people all over the world, like you, merely proves that we are still the good guys.

1) Any argument that takes the following form is a non sequitur:

1. If A is true, then B is true.
2. B is stated to be true.
3. Therefore, A must be true.

Even if the premises and conclusion are all true, the conclusion is not a necessary consequence of the premises. This sort of non sequitur is also called affirming the consequent.

From my understanding, it will pass because there is much support from both parties for a Port Security bill, which the online gaming part just happens to be dragging the coattails of...

Well said! (Although I fear your argument will be lost on the intended recipient)

Copy/Paste of email I received from Jungle Poker:

perhaps nothing will really change in the longterm :-

1) they cant stop you using the internet to make payments abroad (eg to a 3rd party poker banking system)
2) they cant legislate to websites in foreign countries preventing them from allowing their software to be downloaded to USA IPs
3) they cant stop you receiving money from a foreign country

So, if the above 3 are true, surely it is just a waste of time even trying.

All they will really do is lose out on corporation tax (or the US equivalent). Which seems a little stupid really.

How is Jungle Poker? I have never heard of them. I will keep this info on file. Thanks JQ.

I do play at Jungle Poker and I like the interface in general. Never had any connection issues either. Only problem is that SNGs and cash games can be limited. Cash games aren't typically available above micro limits. SNGs can take a little too long to fill up unless it is closer to free roll times.

But much of the competion is fairly soft (there are still good players there, though, don't mis-read that) and the free rolls are much more manageable in both size and time (and with qualifying and cashing). I've made a fair bit of cash playing there.

S & G's could well fill up now though what with Jungles latest stance.

It seems to me from what I've read and from all the sites I've already gotten e-mails from,the sites that have jumped ship in a panic and dumped the US players are all publicly held companies..I've gotten emails from Absolute,Cake and Jungle as well which are all privately held poker sites who plan to continue with business as usual.I would guess this is the course the sites will continue to take..And furthermore,this bill can only try to take aways our means of FUNDING out accounts.It isn't meant to make online poker/gambling illegal,to my understanding of it anyway..Banks didn't let us use our credit cards,checks,debit cards,etc long before now...I think if we continue using Neteller,Firepay or one of the others (Neteller for me) then we should have no problem..As Neteller is a privately held NON American business it is out of the jurisdiction of the United States Congress!!

Actually most of us who reside in the US should email the president and ask him not to sign the bill. You can gently remind him that elections are coming up and you will make it cause to make sure that the Republican candidate for your area doesn't get reelected.

This is a fantastic idea! I think I'll start another thread urging people to do so. Thanks Karen.

Actually, Neteller is a publicly traded company as well (in London), but last I looked their shares had risen. Investors seem to think, reasonably enough, that they will do more business in future if other funding methods become difficult. So, at the moment, they don`t have a problem.

Regardless of public or private, jQ's point is that Neteller is not in the jurisdiction of the US Gov't. What's next? US sanctions against the UK for not stopping Neteller. Nope, that won't happen.

Peter Dicks, the Sportingbet chairman, and David Carruthers, the chief executive of BetOnSports were both arrested when they travelled to the U.S. recently. France is also threatening to arrest online gaming executives. Since most of these companies are above board businesses, they will not want to become outlaws in certain jurisdictions and will comply with the law, even if they need to shut down completely.

On the positive side, it looks like the legal issues are not clear cut. In addition, some online bookies are appealing to the WTO for an unfair trade practices ruling. Antigua and barbados gota favourable ruling in 2004 but then the U.S. appealed and the WTO came back with an ambiguous ruling.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15118962/

Looks like the online gaming companies are fighting back. Unfortunately the current U.S. Administration have a track record of reneging on international treaties and agreements when they don't suit their purposes.

http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1886883,00.html

I doubt this. They will, as they have all along, claim they are following international law and their local laws for doing what they do. They aren't going to shut down their sites because the US 'tards in gov't passed a stupid piece of legislation.

Sorry, guess I wasn't clear. What I mean is, they will shut down business vis a vis American players simply because they want to avoid legal problems in the U.S. . The proof is in the fact that so many of them are already blocking American players even though the law has not even come into effect yet.

If you read their announcements in the press, it seems they are going to pursue this through legal channels like the WTO but I doubt any of the established sites will outright defy the American Government if they lose. None of them want to end up in Gitmo!

They will simply restrict their dealings to residents of those countries that haven't banned online gaming.

I understood that JD, but public companies are much more vulnerable than private ones. Traztom`s made the point already. Public companies can`t look as though they are doing anything that`s questionable or controversial, it brings them under pressure both from the markets and from the regulators.

Is that right ?

I hadn`t heard that. I thought France was pretty liberal about gambling.

I am very confused.... why does everyone think that just because banks/CC's cant deposit to a poker site, that Americans won't be able to play at sites and find work around?

It really makes no sense, especially since so many in polls are against making it illegal.

I just read an interesting article about gambling on this issue. It seems that the stocks of certain rooms have taken a major tumble. What is being touted about is that now is the time to buy these stocks. Certain stock analysts are of the opinion that if you bought certain stocks you would stand to make a killing later. They are of the opinion that the industry is too big to disappear and that ways will be found to do business as usual. As the old saying goes buy low, sell high. They believe these stocks will return to thier pre Frist bill heights in a short time.

And if any of you do buy, I'll take a 5% commission for this tip.

BBB,I think you're onto something there...Get my broker on the line!!
Seriously,I believe that's probably going to turn out to be very correct and some very lucrative stock purchases will be made...As I said in another thread,the sites that are pulling out of the U.S. market are all "publicly" held companies...The privately held ones such as Absolute,Jungle,Cake,etc. have all sent out emails stating it is business as usual for them...Now,get that broker on the line!!