| This is a discussion on Question to FP etc. re 'Nits Apology' within the online poker forums, in the General Poker section; Thanks for the great insights FP and all, on the GA thread: http://www.cardschat.com/f49/nits-ap...ml#post1238439 Being and 'uber-nit' myself (mostly, but changing), I agree w some posters ... |
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| Question to FP etc. re 'Nits Apology' Thanks for the great insights FP and all, on the GA thread: A Nit's Apology (why tight is right for me) Being and 'uber-nit' myself (mostly, but changing), I agree w some posters that the style you describe is more TAG, but perhaps we could say nitty- TAG, which is somewhere I would like to be more often. Numwise, I'm interested in percentages I should be aiming at. So FP, with the style you are describing, can you describe optimum range for various positions? So, if VP/PFR are overall 18/6, what numbers might be optimal in various positions in your opinion? UTG Hijack (Angelo) CO Button SB BB ? |
| Play Texas Hold'em Online Poker | Question to FP etc. re 'Nits Apology' | |
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Makwa have you read Fee's 6max guide? Its pretty decent about how to go about changing your ranges based upon others at the table with you. You can find it Here. Just scroll down and fill in your info to get mailed the link. you can find it other ways but this ensures you get the most updated version. |
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| Sorry for Belgo's post Makwa, I assume you were looking to get some actual advice and not a smarmy comment. I've read through FP's post myself and recently changed up my game a bit, specifically adapting it to Full Ring, but the *theory* is what's important. Quote:
The top players at full ring play between a 11/9 and a 14/12 style (typically). As you get farther along in position you theoretically open up more and more and more. Again these numbers are for theory because I know you need some tangible information to make the theory real. "Technically Speaking" an 11% range includes AA-77, AKs-A9s, AKo-ATo, and hands like KQ-KTs, KQo, QJs, QTs. Now, if you play an 11/9 game (super nit) does that mean if you are on UTG+1 you open up with KQo? Probably not, that's a hand you have to play in late position. To reiterate, you really should look at pokerstove if you are interested in what these percentages mean ... because it will REALLY help you gauge what is inside someone's range. Quote:
I wish I could be more specific but I wanted to put something up that would help you that wouldn't take 4.5 days to write. As I think of more or as people chew up my post, I'll post again. |
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| re: Question to FP etc. re 'Nits Apology' poker I think that both are important to consider. Obv Makwa is looking for specific ranges to shoot for, and general things like "limp less raise more" are very helpful if someone has the basic understanding. However, I agree with belgo too. While percentages can be helpful, aiming for certain percentages CAN mess up your game, so be careful |
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| The optimum range for all positions are going to be mostly dependent on the table dynamics. Table conditions can be vastly different, and you need to adjust your range to them in order to exploit the tendancies of the opponents at your table and to increase your expectation. |
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| Well said all, but let me re-ask. I am asking FP, based on numbers posted in the golden thread, what he thinks optimum numbers might be for various positions. We are talking short table, 6 max here. Just some ballpark numbers please sir. |
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| re: Question to FP etc. re 'Nits Apology' poker Quote:
No more generic answers or links pls. No magic, just a simple question to the OP of originating thread. Am asking here because thread has been sent to thread heaven without being teased out enuff and now cannot continue there... Can we get back to my question and can anyone plug in any numbers? FP? BTW **** ryan fee and his silly site . Last edited by Makwa : 23rd July 2009 at 4:29 AM. |
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| Makwa you're really not listening to the people trying to help you here. You should not be aiming for specific numbers; there are no optimal stats. FP will tell you the same. Both a loose and a tight style can yield positive results. FP simply made a case for the tighter side. In general you want to see your opening range widen almost exponentially as you move from EP to LP. Then in the blinds you should tighten up again. As a general example, since you seem to be so set on the numbers, here are the stats of someone I consider to be a decent 'nit', EP to BB: 12/12 15/15 23/21 24/20 17/12 11/5 |
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| As others have pointed out I don't like trying to achieve stats; I think in terms of ranges. And my opening ranges for the different positions were in that original thread. As for which hands I'd flat a raise with preflop, that's obviously dependent on who's doing the raising but in general, I'm tighter than most people there, too. |
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gg sir. way to be a d1ck |
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Soo... we have above some numbers from ChuckT, and yes there are some ranges explained by FP in original thread, if anyone has any favorite numbers/ranges to add please do. Yes we know it gets tighter or looser as we go around the orbit. I am trying to get specific, because if we can say our opening range is 17-19/14-16 overall, we should be able to also produce the numbers for each position. Thats all. |
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| ^^^ There are countless strategy threads here where people show graphs and numbers for examination and comment. And peeps make suggestions based on what they think are leaky ranges (for instance super low PFR percentages), and OPs go "Aha! txs for the insights and suggestions," and correct their games. So I dont see why considering optimal ranges for various styles is such a waste of time... Again, we are not talking range as in openers (cards) and position, we are looking at range of VPIP/PFR from various positions. What is wrong with that? |
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| Well, they're numbers. But I recall Fredrik saying that players overall aggression stats at Party are not the same as at similar levels Chuck was finding at Stars, and they won't be the same at different levels either. So the same stats won't work the same everywhere anyway. But, it's a start, I guess. |
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Yes a very good point Lions, numbers are not universal across rooms or levels. But there ARE commonalities/differences that would be great to discuss. But we need a baseline to work from. This thread was to cover nit-TAG short table. So far we have one from icemonkey (FR) and one from chuck, and some ranges from FPs most excellent originating thread... Nothing wrong with numbers 0100111001 Last edited by Makwa : 23rd July 2009 at 9:34 PM. |
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| Makwa, I see what you're saying and I think I know what the difference is. It's much easier and more productive when people post their stats, because that means they have already figured out a playing style and people are able to help them correct leaks in the game. The reason people are so hesitant to post numbers is because we do NOT know your style. We don't want to put you in the position of playing more hands than you're used to. So overall what I'm saying is that the reason you're not getting satisfactory answers is because we can only help you perfect your style of play, not create one for you that may not be good for you. |
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Here is some stats from someone in my database with ~18/16 style or so (maybe slightly looser than that) sb-21/16 bb-12/9 ep-12/12 mp-14/13.5 co-20/18 Bu-30/28 |
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| re: Question to FP etc. re 'Nits Apology' poker Quote:
BTW James u must read before posting. I am uber-nit as in OP opener100010000001010111 |
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Dang I will have to start a database soon to collate. Txs cat. There are always optimal stats, situations etc. There is a thing called a baseline. Txs for yr Data0200110010010000 How did 2 get in there? o 01001001 BTW buddy is playing fat and also needs to beef the CO a bit... Last edited by Makwa : 24th July 2009 at 6:41 AM. |
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| I did read the OP Makwa, but I'm just trying to explain why others might not want to share their numbers (also they might not want to broadcast how they play to the world). Quote:
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See threads Banned Welcomed Deleted and Looped, and I am BOT. |
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