Is "I have to call" a call?

Live $1/$2 game... I was talking through a hand at the river after an opponent had taken a strange line. Obv, in hindsight, I shouldn't have done this, but I was muttering to myself, "I know I'm beat, but I have a full house, and it's just $30 into $100... how can I fold here?? I have to call this..."

...and then the other guy, upon hearing me say "I have to call this" flips over his cards, shows me a bigger full house (as expected), and I say, "I fold."

The floor ruled that I had called.

It was just $30, but I want to learn from it: Was my statement a call?

Binding verbal declaration IMO. At the casino in which I play you'd be held to the call as well.

yes, it was a call

Well what if he phrased it a little different. like "How can I not call?" Do they just listen for the word "call" or "fold"? "I can't fold this hand" is that a call too? I usually just play friendly house games where there'd be clarification before any showing and usually it's by onlookers who have folded so there is little cut-throat technicalities. that's what this seems like. technically its a call but kinda dbaggy? and that may lose your invite but obviously casinos cant ban you for hurting the feelings of another player

He was a smart player, he heard you mention the word " call " and showed right away, I would have as well and would have complained a ton if you said other wise :P i have seen such big fights in casino's over this.

Lesson here, let the chips do the talking.

up to the dealer/floor imo

Seems kind of debatable imo, baudib1 response seems most legit.

Saying i have to call this out loud without a but ending that phrase would deem it a verbal binding comminenment.... Lame but True! One time I was kidding with dealer and said IM ALL IN THE MUCK, and he made me push my chips in becuase I said it slowly LOL, I had queen 10 off and noone called thank God, but wow that was close!

I also Said once, LOL, I raise....d puppies from birth, they made me raise despite me actually wanting to fold. Nobody called again LOL... be careful at table man the dealer is really all we have to keep the game fair and professional.

Yea they can be real pricks if you dont tip often

Don't worry OP you weren't folding a boat for a 1/3 pot bet anyway.

I agree with WV

This seems debatable. But, to be honest I really don't think that it should be ruled a call. Totally depends on the casino and the person you're up against, imo. Because I know that im generous, i wouldve let it go ahaha.

Sorry but no - doing this deliberately is stupid because if the floor rules against you you've given away the contents of your hand for no gain. You could even be penalised depending on the house rules for exposing your cards before showdown. Plus nobody likes an angle shooter. So just don't do it, confirm that you've got a legit showdown before you turn your cards over.

Very much up to the floor / dealer as to whether this is ruled a call BTW - I think it's pretty much a "had to be there" decision. If OP is 100% accurate as to what was said I'd probably lean towards it being a call, but it's by no means a slam dunk.

WV has it BTW, there's no way you were folding

Clearly a call, try being less douchey in the future (I guess knowing you shouldn't have done it is a start )

what

Sorry, but that sounds like a call to me! "Friendly" games have varying degrees of rule enforcement, but at worst you spent $30.00 to learn a valuable lesson. Let it go, and be careful of your words in the future.

Thanks for the comments, everyone. Like several of you noted, I don't really think I could've folded a full house for $30 anyway. I was just curious what kinds of verbal declarations would be binding in a situation like this.

You might have folded, if you had looked out the window and saw the pigs flying by. But there are not a lot of window seats anywhere I've been.

I've never seen a dealers decision challenged, but I have seen a dealer call the boss over before making a decision.

"A verbal statement denotes your action and is binding. If in turn you verbally declare a fold, check, bet, call, or raise, you are forced to take that action."
The rule has room for interpretation and as such it is doubtful you would get it overturned by further review. You need to ask the floor managers (plural) at your place how they would interpret it AND whether or not another might interpret it differently. It's all well and great for us to kcik it around here but if you are asking on behalf of your bankroll than ask those who can effect it.
I gotta agree about brilliant move by the other guy flipping over. Angle shoot? yeah, but so terrible I'm going to hold it against him. I would have been pissed at myself for having those words come out of my mouth.

Well, you were going to call anyway, so you didn't actually lost those 30$... now, I believe what you did/say must be considered as calling, otherwise, others would start saying stuff like that in hopes the other guy flips over his cards (tricking him in doing so) and then calling only when holding a better hand, IMO.

mohegan sun and foxwoods would have claimed that a call.

Can you please explain how it was brilliant? Because I can only see downside to it.

OP has already said what he's said. He can't un-say it, and it's what was said that determines whether he's forced to call or not.

Whether the villain has turned his cards up or not has absolutely zero influence on that decision. All flipping his cards up does is allow OP to make a correct decision if the floor rules that he doesn't have to call - if it's ruled that he doesn't have to call, in many cases he probably still will. But if he's already seen he has a losing hand, he's going to fold every time.

In some card rooms it may also open villain up to a penalty for exposing his cards during a hand.

I suspect villain turned his hand up in this case not as some "brilliant" angle shoot, but because he genuinely believed (with good cause, it seems) that OP had called and the hand was over. I can understand that. But suggesting that it should be done deliberately in situations where there might be some ambiguity, on the expectation that it's somehow good for the person exposing their hand I just can't understand...

Yep

I was waiting for you to come along and save this thread Oz.

Our different view on this seems to be totally about our presupposition about how this would be handled by the floor.

I am convinced there was a call and I am convinced that if the floor is called the fact the villain has turned his cards up has 99% influence on that decision.

I base that on seeing over and over in the rules, if you 'blah blah blah' "causing another player to act behind you" then (and the "then" never turns out well for the person who induced the action).

I could be wrong but that's the basis of my opinion.

Totally understand what you're saying and if you're right about zero influence on a ruling then I would agree.

Very interesting set of circumstances. I can see the arguement both ways. I guess it has to come down to the dealer to decide in a situation like this. Lesson I guess is to say as little as possible.

Come on, who are you kidding? If he didnt turn over his cards so quick you would of called anyway and lost regardless, there was no way you were folding.

I don't understand why people are jumping down his throat for this specific hand. We all know he wasn't folding a boat for $30, can we put that aside and look at his question (which has been answered and discussed as well) of "if I say 'I have to call' to myself, is that a call?" Even if we say no he can't travel back in time and save himself the money. He's obviously talking about for a future hand which he may have 2 pair with flushes, straight, etc possible and that's a hand he could actually let go. It's not helping anyone to say "you weren't folding that hand." What does he, or any of the other readers learn from that?
/rant

Normally, if someone says they have to call, he ends up calling. I can see it going either way depending on dealer rulings. Personally if it were me, i'd say you were just thinking your way through. If you said it to me, I'd think to myself "he's calling" but not do anything til you say "Yes I call" or put some chips in.

See, that's the thing Hawt, this could be construed as honest on both party's actions, or it could be considered an angle-shoot by either side. Player A says 'I think I have to call' to induce action without really meaning to call, then says "I fold" once he gets the result he wanted (player B to expose his cards). NOT SAYING THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED HERE.

Or, player B, upon hearing player A debating a call and hearing the word "call" come out of the other player's mouth in any fashion quickly exposes his hand, forcing the action and a response from the dealer/floor.

Interesting situation. I still believe in most casino's you'd be held to the call. As for the honesty/angle-shooting, there's lots of honest players, andd there's lots of angle shooters as well. Pick your poison.

Players acting behind is only mentioned twice in Roberts Rules that I can find - once to say that if you throw your hand away in a forward motion and it causes another player to act behind you then your hand is dead, and in a slightly more confusing rule about when you do or don't retain the right to act when someone else has acted out of turn.

The only rule that really matters is this one (Roberts Rules Section 3 - General Poker Rules, Betting and Raising):

9. A verbal statement in turn denotes your action, is binding, and takes precedence over a differing physical action.

The decision begins and ends with what was said. What other players have done afterwards should have no influence.

Right. It could be honest on both, or they both could have been doing some sort of tactic. Like Oz said, I'm not turning over my cards until a chip is in or dealer tells me to or some obvious and if my opponent says "I have to call" I think to myself "He's going to call" since he probably will, but I don't want to act and the decision be "he didn't officially call, yet" and let him fold (we all know he probably wouldn't be in this specific hand)

Yep you called but the other player was sharp to flip his cards over fast...I think he thought there might have been some debate so he made his move. I can see where this situation might provoke some discussion in a home game but in a casino no way....it was a cheap lesson.

Similar situation here at about the 3:30 minute mark.

And in this case Clonie was not too swift to announce her hand.
How is this different?
She had 2 pair (second) and MSUfan's villian had top boat (which in all likelyhood was the 2nd nuts after quads).
MSU Fan said "I have to call" - Vamessa said "I THINK I have to call"
I wish Clonie would have gotten a ruling though.
I'm not flipping hand over in Clonie's shoes.

Once again, gotta be quiet especially when mumbling. I've seen more that my fair share of 'I'm all in' jokers when the hand is being dealt. Most of time you aren't all in, but sometimes house will call you on it.
Be silent... less mistakes and you give away MUCH less info to thinking players.

Any statement with the word "call" in it can be determined to be a binding call at the floors discretion. Be careful what you say, as you may be forced to make an action you didn't intend on.