Does he really have to show you that bluff?

#1 9th January 2012, 6:44 PM

How do you guys handle that player who shows you the stone cold bluff? I not sure the purpose of it but doing that sort of thing is enough to make me mad and sometimes throws me off my steady rock solid game.
I generally dont ever show a bluff, and I tend to make good size overbets whether or not I have a winning hand or air ......and even if some one who folded on me want me to show and I generally would show my hole cards no matter what .....if I have it or not.
I think it you are doing to take a good player off the game then it might work but then you are making the other players at the table aware of your tactics and may backfire.

#2 9th January 2012, 7:28 PM

I don't think it's as much to put you off as it is to give a table image for themselves. Next big hand he actually has it and someone thinks back, whether it was the player who got bluffed at first or not, to his bluff and he may get a call with say 2nd pair. Or if he showed bad cards, it tells the table he'll play bad cards. So 4 5 2 flop he may very well have played 3 6 this time and your ace high is no good. As opposed to that flop with a tight player you can take him off a 3 6 you know.

I don't know how others feel about something like this but it seems like a lot of people say "He was trying to put me on tilt." Ok i see an advantage of getting someone on tilt but I don't think that's always the case and sometimes it's not about them specifically. For example lets say you get crazy and see some pro a the and somehow bluff him off and show him your bluff. other than helmuth or matasow were you trying to put them on tilt?

#3 9th January 2012, 7:31 PM

Maybe I give people too much credit. I know I bluff time to time but rarely my bluffs are intended to tilt someone. I usually play and try to recognize when someone tilts then milk the tilt if i can. I don't usually intentionally spark it.

#4 9th January 2012, 7:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlam

I not sure the purpose of it but doing that sort of thing is enough to make me mad and sometimes throws me off my steady rock solid game.

This is why he does it.

#5 9th January 2012, 7:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baudib1

This is why he does it.

True but sometimes this backfires. I mean does OP really have a rock steady game or is it more of a steady rock game? Sometimes these guys showing some nit who will let you bluff them off a pot time after time actually make the nits adjust correctly and start calling more. Personally I wouldn't show my grandmother in penny ante unless she called but I also don't get upset when someone else shows. Just more information to use later on. I'd say showing is definitely -EV and those that do it generally aren't very good.

#6 9th January 2012, 10:22 PM

When I make quick folds and villian shows me a bluff I don't get upset cause I give him credit for making a good bluff But when I get an villian who's betting pattern doesn't match the story preflop and on all the streets then I tend to take lots of time and sometimes stare the other down. Sometimes this makes them really uncomfortable and makes them show the bluff when I fold. I think this irks me because I like 50:50 on call vs fold and choose fold cause it's a new player to me and give that person benefit of doubt he got the goods Maybe all poker player should be considered bluffers until proven otherwise

#7 9th January 2012, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlam

Maybe all poker player should be considered bluffers until proven otherwise

I take opposite approach. I'd rather see someone else prove this kids a bluffer and lose minimal chips instead of assume he's a bluffer and lost 1/2 my stack after it's proven he's not.

#8 12th January 2012, 3:43 AM

if you rarely bluff, then it might not be a bad idea to show a bluff. later on, people may think youre bluffing when you really arent

#9 18th January 2012, 8:28 PM

Don't let it upset you, just make a note of it for future use. However, be careful. He's trying to show a loose, bluffing image and may switch gears later and bet the same way with a monster hand. Hard to figure it out someties....

#10 20th January 2012, 3:38 PM

If some one wants to show a bluff whatever. Just observer and move on. No one wants to be bluffed but it will happen regardless. The best players in the world through away the winning hand more than you think. If you have a guy that is bluffing a lot and showing it is just a matter of time before he bluffs into a premium hand and you crack him. If he bluffed once and showed he is probably trying to get under your skin knowing you will be more likely to call him with a weaker hand later on when he has a made hand....end note: don't make your priority out playing this one guy that bluffed you, his time will come till then play your game and observe.

good luck

#11 20th January 2012, 6:32 PM

Good answers by everyone. Bluffs can be used to tilt someone, to set up a future bad call, or to get back at someone. Sometimes players show bluffs just because they are a-holes.

#12 20th January 2012, 6:48 PM

I rarely bluff, so when I do I like to flash it to show I got away with it. I see it as funny, not to tick another player off. It is a good way to throw someone game off, but it can give a another player a hint if you constantly bluff.

#13 20th January 2012, 7:05 PM

It might work if the guy doing it changed his play from that moment on but usually players that do that will just keep it up till they are busted. I do not let it bother me. I mean a good percentage of pots in poker are won on a bluff so why even go there unless it's the first time you ever bluffed and are feeling so proud you have to brag about it.

I remember one player that was doing that and he raised my blind. I had 10 9 clubs so I called Flop came 2 ,10, 9 he bet pot I called. Turn came 6 he bet pot I called. River came 8 He shoved All in. I thought long and hard about it and said to myself I lost this hand but I have so much invested I cannot fold now. I said screw it and called he showed KQ. I felted him and he was screaming on the sidelines. I'm sure I will be told I played this wrong and should have raised on the flop but it worked luckily.

#14 23rd January 2012, 4:39 AM

I believe it's a combination of vanity and psychological advantage. Vanity because he wants everyone to think he's a crafty player and psychological advantage of making you go on tilt.

Whenever these things happen to me, I usually have to take a break and go for a walk or I may leave the game a few hands later because it would put me on tilt.

#15 23rd January 2012, 6:51 PM

If he wants to give information that he doesnt have to.... Be thankful and move on.

#16 24th January 2012, 10:17 PM

There is a purpose for showing a bluff. My father doesn't bluff often, but will sometimes show a bluff so that players might guess he is bluffing and call/raise when he has a winning hand. Always keep them guessing!

#17 24th January 2012, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

True but sometimes this backfires. I mean does OP really have a rock steady game or is it more of a steady rock game? Sometimes these guys showing some nit who will let you bluff them off a pot time after time actually make the nits adjust correctly and start calling more. Personally I wouldn't show my grandmother in penny ante unless she called but I also don't get upset when someone else shows. Just more information to use later on. I'd say showing is definitely -EV and those that do it generally aren't very good.

I have a theory that showing the occasional river bluff (by river bluff i mean you lead the betting previously with equity only to brick your draw or overcard/four to a straight etc fall) in live 1/2 is ok, especially if you find yourself at a table with people that love to see the flop, and play fit or fold with marginal holdings, as the times you get 3 streets of value with top pair against mid/bottom pair because "they saw you bluff" outweigh the times if any, you get called down when you have air. but that may only be because of the terrible standard of live play. thoughts?

#18 24th January 2012, 10:42 PM

Sitting at a table where you dont no anyone, a bluff that is showed definatly helps create an image imo.

#19 27th January 2012, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duggs

I have a theory that showing the occasional river bluff (by river bluff i mean you lead the betting previously with equity only to brick your draw or overcard/four to a straight etc fall) in live 1/2 is ok, especially if you find yourself at a table with people that love to see the flop, and play fit or fold with marginal holdings, as the times you get 3 streets of value with top pair against mid/bottom pair because "they saw you bluff" outweigh the times if any, you get called down when you have air. but that may only be because of the terrible standard of live play. thoughts?

Yes occ I see people call down with middle pair live but doesn't happen to often but I don't think showing a bluff will make someone call do this more often I think once some one is a calling station they are a calling station
However maybe some might to temp to call with TP and poor kicker. I thinkif you triplebarrel and have air cause you miss the river and won a big pot then don't rub it into someone face by showing the bluff. It's as bad etiquette as calling and asking to turn up the card rather than letting him muck it

#20 27th January 2012, 11:37 PM

I bluff to win the hand, they will see it only if they call, lol....I have morons show bluffs too, after that I assume they are not doing it anymore and am even more wary.

#21 27th January 2012, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlam

Yes occ I see people call down with middle pair live but doesn't happen to often but I don't think showing a bluff will make someone call do this more often I think once some one is a calling station they are a calling station
However maybe some might to temp to call with TP and poor kicker. I thinkif you triplebarrel and have air cause you miss the river and won a big pot then don't rub it into someone face by showing the bluff. It's as bad etiquette as calling and asking to turn up the card rather than letting him muck it

It happens all the time. If anything people overreact to recent events in live poker, as they dont think of ranges or really understand exactly what just happened. Its not rubbing in someones face, its just creating an image that you can exploit. I dont think there is anything rude about it at all, nor does it only change his perception of you but the entire tables. It is not the same as pulling cards out of the muck...

#22 28th January 2012, 12:10 AM

I think of it as free information. File it away and use it later.

#23 28th January 2012, 12:27 AM

It is all in the interpretation by the bluffee. Showing can be an intentional false narrative to induce a slow player to start loosening up. Otherwise, it is useless against a smart player.

#24 28th January 2012, 1:37 AM

Big bluffs are part of NL game but it's really embarrassing to the person who was bluffed to show that hand Conversely if I bluff with air and get caught I put in the muck as fast I can before the dealer can put the cards out.

#25 4th February 2012, 11:32 PM

I admit I didn't read the whole thread but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlam

How do you guys handle that player who shows you the stone cold bluff?

Take a note of how much he bet and keep playing the exact same way. I can't say I don't steam sometimes, I do, but that's besides the point.

#26 7th February 2012, 12:22 AM

There are three main reasons Ive shown big bluffs.

The first is if someone is running over the table and I want to put them back in their place.

The second is if I am being percieved as too tight and not getting any action.

The third is every now and then my ego gets in the way and Im being a dick.

CuttleFish

#27 7th February 2012, 12:48 AM

If someone successfully bluffs you out of the better hand, don't get mad, take solace in knowing that only a good player can be bluffed

#28 10th February 2012, 6:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waychoano

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yes, have to agree...........

#29 11th February 2012, 11:12 PM

I always tell him he was ahead if its remotely belieavable at all that I could have been on some sort of draw. I usually never give them the satisfaction of thinking they beat me. If you sit with me at a table over the course of a year 2-3 days a week its amazing how often I was on a draw after a player shows a hand that did not have me beat.

#30 14th February 2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawtshawt420

I don't think it's as much to put you off as it is to give a table image for themselves. Next big hand he actually has it and someone thinks back, whether it was the player who got bluffed at first or not, to his bluff and he may get a call with say 2nd pair. Or if he showed bad cards, it tells the table he'll play bad cards. So 4 5 2 flop he may very well have played 3 6 this time and your ace high is no good. As opposed to that flop with a tight player you can take him off a 3 6 you know.

I do it for this reason. Live tables are loose as sin so I'm rarely bluffing, when I do I want everyone to see it so everyone acts even more stationy round me.

If the other player tilts that's just a bonus. Tends to make playing with them a bit unpleasant though as I find they can become quite rude or even aggressive (not with their cards lol) once you do this.

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