Do bots work.

Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

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Obviously bots are something I stumble across from time to time. I was wondering...

Do bots work at any level?

Has anyone ever used them?

How clued up are the rooms?

Does anyone really care if they play against them?

How advanced (in terms of a player) are they, i.e. not that great but they clean up the micro stakes where play is bad.

How do you tell a good bot from a bad one?

Is there anything else you can add?
 
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PDMike425

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don't use bots, you will lose and it isn't worth it
 
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hacklimit

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From all I have read about them, they work best in Limit and Heads Up games. I believe I have played against bots in the past, and really am indifferent to playing against them as long as there is not a conflict of interest. For example, I wouldn't like it if the sites were utilitizing them for their own monetary gain. I doubt this ever goes on, however, they are making oodles of money without them. That would be just bad business. Why screw up a good thing?
 
zachvac

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Stu_Ungar said:
Obviously bots are something I stumble across from time to time.
Click to expand...

How do you know this? I highly doubt you've run across one but I could be wrong. Please enlighten me on how you know you've stumbled across them.
 
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Actually take this anyway you want.

I had a friend that worked for a pretty big site. According to him sites use bots regularly to boost the number of tables being played leading to more rake. Some will even fill guranteed tournaments with them when there is a large discreprency between players needed to make the guranteed payout. I initially blew it off as bs but the more he said the more I believe I could see how it would be to a sites advantage.

He said you can tell if your playing against a bot pretty easily. They will raise very odd numbers but they will be the same portions to their program(certain percentage of the pot) every time they raise. They are not programmed to play a large variety of hands(just 8 or so hands). But this was the interesting part. They can be easily beat if you know your up against one according to him because on any of their programmed hands they mostly are programmed to overplay when hitting anything they play. The examples he gave were:

Bot has AJ and flop comes K J 2 the bot will still bet out and keep betting or call a bet even if it is an overbet against it.

Also bot will overplay AK.

Bascially his point was they are there to fill tables not mix it up against players every other hand so they are tight as a rock.


There were about four other things he mentioned that have slipped my mind at the moment.

Like I said take it anyway you want to I just figured I would throw it out there since someone asked.

As for playing against them. It would not really bother me. I note often so they would just get noted as anyone else would.
 
Stu_Ungar

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Originally Posted by Stu_Ungar
Obviously bots are something I stumble across from time to time.
Click to expand...

How do you know this? I highly doubt you've run across one but I could be wrong. Please enlighten me on how you know you've stumbled across them.
Click to expand...

I meant that I stumble across articals about bots when Im researching poker topics on the net.

The reason I was interested in them was due to something that was said in one of their forums. Someone proposed the idea of a bot only poker site. The idea being you tweaked them to the stratagy you wanted and then left them to play eachother for 8 hours or so. Then you either picked up your winnings or tried to figure out where the flaw in your stratagy and or bot was. Spend some time re-tweaking it and repeat.

This idea intriged me as I wondered if bots, in this way, could be of any use to a real poker player. If you could encapsulate a simplified version of your play into bot form, you could set it against other bots and see how it faired. Over time you could see how well your stratagy worked and what tweakes were needed against certain players (im thinking that a player would be defined by Poker tracker type stats).

This could actually be done on a play money table as the idea is to test stratagies rather than make money.... although if you did come up with a killer bot.. you would probably want to see how it faired against human players, partly for the CHANCE of easy money but mainly for research purposes.
 
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This is really interesting, bots work in a typical muster,
so when you know the muster of a bot, you could beat him with no problems i guess:p
 
One9Design

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The biggest disadvantage a bot has is that they play consistently. They don't mix things up like a human player. Using a bot to test out a playing strategy is an interesting idea. You should be able to test out a strategy with a bot outsides of a poker room, in some sort of simulation.
 
PokerPete

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Stu_Ungar said:
Do bots work at any level?
Click to expand...
They appear to work well at micro NLHE on UB. (I've seen them on AP also but don't play there anymore)
Stu_Ungar said:
Has anyone ever used them?
Click to expand...
No.
Stu_Ungar said:
How clued up are the rooms?
Click to expand...
Clueless or couldn't care less.... unless they've now fixed the problem... I just checked the games on UB and don't see any players acting like I described.

Stu_Ungar said:
Does anyone really care if they play against them?
Click to expand...
They are annoying, often suckout, play very,very predictably, sit down with .10, leave UTG when they exceed .35 at the table, only ever say "gh", allin from the button if no raise in front if they have Ax, only play with 5 or more players, will leave if the live players sit out and allow only the bot vs. bot hands for about an orbit....
I got so P.O.'d by this one 'bot' one night I opened a handful of tables it was at... a number of times it made moves on three different tables at what appeared to be the exact same instant
Stu_Ungar said:
How advanced (in terms of a player) are they, i.e. not that great but they clean up the micro stakes where play is bad.
Click to expand...
they suck and suckout... they CAN be bluffed but will call if top pair


Stu_Ungar said:
How do you tell a good bot from a bad one?
Click to expand...
never met one I'd call "good"

Stu_Ungar said:
Is there anything else you can add?
Click to expand...
yeah, they never tilt but can often tilt you.
 
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Stu_Ungar

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The biggest disadvantage a bot has is that they play consistently
Click to expand...

I was thinking about that.

Harrington reconmends using your watch to randamise your play. Couldnt the same thing be done with a bot?
 
PokerPete

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Stu_Ungar said:
I was thinking about that.

Harrington reconmends using your watch to randamise your play. Couldnt the same thing be done with a bot?
Click to expand...
It would be extremely easy to do so... but... (the more experienced players can help out here... ) I change how I play only when it appears I have a player at the table with me that seems to have adapted and is now playing well vs me.... I do represent with "no so good cards" every now and then when I seem to be getting little or no action everytime I have something.

As a software developer I have often threatened to write one just to prove it could be done... but:

[X] I have a moral conflict with doing so
[X] I have a hard enough time trying to win playing live
[X] Time would be spent much more enjoyably playing

... maybe I could write a "real donk-like" one.... calls to the river, plays only schlock hands... folds anything good... play terrible position.... that way I could give it to people to prove to them without worrying about it's use or it "spreading"
 
Stu_Ungar

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infact, heads up you could pipe data straight into pokerstove!!! and then play accordingly (but remember to randamise the actions a bit)
 
zachvac

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Let's put it this way. If you could write a bot to beat the games, you'd be able to simply play it out yourself and win. Do you honestly think you can play using a simple algorithm and beat the game? I'd like to see anyone write what they think would simply be a successful algorithm, don't worry about putting it into code yet. Then follow it yourself. Somehow I doubt it will be a winner at any significant level.
 
PokerPete

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zachvac said:
Let's put it this way. If you could write a bot to beat the games, you'd be able to simply play it out yourself and win.
Click to expand...
My point exactly. I have the programming skills and techno knowhow to do it..... but heck... I'm getting clobbered playing low level DoN(k) SnGs! :eek:

zachvac said:
Do you honestly think you can play using a simple algorithm and beat the game? I'd like to see anyone write what they think would simply be a successful algorithm, don't worry about putting it into code yet.
Click to expand...
I could make the "ZachVac" bot.... if I knew how you do what you do so well (all sucking up intended.... I wish I knew a third about the game that you, tenbob, Chuck, FP and the rest appear to... I am learning but it seems to be taking me much longer than anything else I've tried to master)... I doubt any algorithm would ever be "good"... it could how ever play by the book and "mix it's play"... but a good player should still be able to beat it.... and it would still suffer the same BBB & dj suckouts like the rest of us :D

zachvac said:
Then follow it yourself. Somehow I doubt it will be a winner at any significant level.
Click to expand...
like I said earlier, the bots seem to be missing from UB today... either they caught on and purged em, change their software and have broken them, or they just plain don't make money for the owners... but I have seen them and they have played vs. me.... I've seen them win and I've seen them lose... but I never owned, nor operated, nor tracked them for any significant lenght of time so I have no clue how well they actually do
 
PokerDave

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Kwolff said:
Actually take this anyway you want.

I had a friend that worked for a pretty big site. According to him sites use bots regularly to boost the number of tables being played leading to more rake. Some will even fill guranteed tournaments with them when there is a large discreprency between players needed to make the guranteed payout. I initially blew it off as bs but the more he said the more I believe I could see how it would be to a sites advantage.

He said you can tell if your playing against a bot pretty easily. They will raise very odd numbers but they will be the same portions to their program(certain percentage of the pot) every time they raise. They are not programmed to play a large variety of hands(just 8 or so hands). But this was the interesting part. They can be easily beat if you know your up against one according to him because on any of their programmed hands they mostly are programmed to overplay when hitting anything they play. The examples he gave were:

Bot has AJ and flop comes K J 2 the bot will still bet out and keep betting or call a bet even if it is an overbet against it.

Also bot will overplay AK.

Bascially his point was they are there to fill tables not mix it up against players every other hand so they are tight as a rock.


There were about four other things he mentioned that have slipped my mind at the moment.

Like I said take it anyway you want to I just figured I would throw it out there since someone asked.

As for playing against them. It would not really bother me. I note often so they would just get noted as anyone else would.
Click to expand...

From Michael Craig
A casino running a crooked game would be sure of making money, but would ultimately be found out or at least suspected of cheating, which would chase away gamblers...
Click to expand...

I don't know why any site would take a chance by using bots to fill up tables, or tournaments... with the amount of money they already make. Fiscally, it is not worth it to fill up X amount of tables to get a small rake while risking the entire site/online casinos license or player base.
 
pokertramp

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Kwolff said:
Actually take this anyway you want.

I had a friend that worked for a pretty big site. According to him sites use bots regularly to boost the number of tables being played leading to more rake. Some will even fill guranteed tournaments with them when there is a large discreprency between players needed to make the guranteed payout. I initially blew it off as bs but the more he said the more I believe I could see how it would be to a sites advantage.

He said you can tell if your playing against a bot pretty easily. They will raise very odd numbers but they will be the same portions to their program(certain percentage of the pot) every time they raise. They are not programmed to play a large variety of hands(just 8 or so hands). But this was the interesting part. They can be easily beat if you know your up against one according to him because on any of their programmed hands they mostly are programmed to overplay when hitting anything they play. The examples he gave were:

Bot has AJ and flop comes K J 2 the bot will still bet out and keep betting or call a bet even if it is an overbet against it.

Also bot will overplay AK.

Bascially his point was they are there to fill tables not mix it up against players every other hand so they are tight as a rock.


There were about four other things he mentioned that have slipped my mind at the moment.

Like I said take it anyway you want to I just figured I would throw it out there since someone asked.

As for playing against them. It would not really bother me. I note often so they would just get noted as anyone else would.
Click to expand...


I played against one before in a SNG. It would fold almost every hand and raised the same amount every time. I ended up going all in with KK and it called me with QQ and beat me.
 
Pike60

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They should be banned period. This means that sites can't use them either.When I pay to play I fully expect to be playing against another air breather.Yeah they can be predictable at times but I could care less.

Would you go to a casino and sit down to play a puter or a person?
 
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