Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
He seems to do okay on pokerstars (or 'did' okay.. in MTT play).
So in that NBC HU championships, do they show all hands played?
LarkMarlow
Legend
Silver Level
Oh goodness no. They have 4 tables running simultaneously and one feature table. On the feature table they show a few hands, but the focus is more on personality and background. They occasionally zoom over to a side table for all-in action. Lots of charming exit interviews.
I'm taping the series and watch when I can. In all fairness, as the field narrows I expect they will show more hands played. Last year the semis and final were pretty good.
SavagePenguin
Put the win in penguin
Bronze Level
I OPR'd Moneymaker's ID (Money800), to get an idea of his online history:
95.86% 2007
99.94% 2008
47.65% 2009
99.87% 2010
Yeah, he had kind of a sucky year in 2009, but otherwise he's way ahead of the curve.
95.86% 2007
99.94% 2008
47.65% 2009
99.87% 2010
Yeah, he had kind of a sucky year in 2009, but otherwise he's way ahead of the curve.
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RamdeeBen
Legend
Silver Level
I really don't understand why everyone loves to bash Chris.
Sure, he isn't the best out there, but I tell you something he's in the very short list of poker players who are profitable ones. People always say "He luck boxed the wsop Main Event"
Now, first off - EVERYONE has to get lucky in these tournaments to win. End of. No one can win on skill alone. So, now we have that out the way, you still say how much he sucks.
Lets have a look at his live results,
2003 WSOP $10,000 Main Event May 2003 1st $2,500,000
WPT Bay 101 Shooting Stars $5,500 Main Event March 2004 2nd $200,000
2004 WSOP $5,000 Pot Limit Omaha May 2004 10th $21,000
EPT London £5,200 No Limit Hold’em September 2007 17th $24,480
PokerStars WCOOP $10,300 No Limit Hold’em September 2008 6th $139,635
PCA Main Event January 2011 11th $130,000
National Heads-Up Poker Championship March 2011 2nd $300,000
Now, explain to me why these results are so bad? Are you telling me you would classing yourself as a bad player and lucky donk for cashing in these? I don't understand your logic, it seems you are like everyone else who wants to jump on Chris, makes no sense. Everyone always says bad stuff about his play and how lucky he is etc. If these was anyone elses results, no one would say anything, why is it CHRIS everyone says it about?
Now, lets go to his online earnings.
So, UNLIKE many good live players he has a positive ROI% with nearly 100k in prizes. So yeah he must run good and be lucky to turn over a positive ROI with 2500 tournaments played, right?
I have a question for you. Do you even know why you think he sucks or is just a luck box? Are you like a sheep who has to follow what everyone says and actually have no idea what your going on about? Is it because you want people to reply to say "yeaha, I agree" just because it seems normal for everyone to bash Chris.
Lets also not forget one thing, you most like 80% of other players who call chris this and that woulden't even be playing if it wasn't for him.
So please...christ people like you annoy me. What do you want from him? He's a profitable player over a good sample of live/online tournaments what the hell more do you want? Do you want him to be a losing player online like most live "pros" or what?
e's not a great poker player, not even a good one, just a lucky one. JMO < < As for that comment. Yeah I can imagine you could teach him a few things or too eh? Not even a good one, just pure luck. Hell, why not put all your money from savings/house or whatever and play him over a decent sample size and bust him? Or not maybe? I'm guessing you would most likely back out because even if you played 100k games he would still be catching his cards to bust you or something?
How on earth can a part-time player (probs smallish stakes like me) dare have the cheek to even say someone playing the stakes he does he sucks and isn't even "good". Don't even say his play confirmed what I always thought, you maybe saw a few hands of his whole life of playing poker lol.
Sure, he isn't the best out there, but I tell you something he's in the very short list of poker players who are profitable ones. People always say "He luck boxed the wsop Main Event"
Now, first off - EVERYONE has to get lucky in these tournaments to win. End of. No one can win on skill alone. So, now we have that out the way, you still say how much he sucks.
Lets have a look at his live results,
2003 WSOP $10,000 Main Event May 2003 1st $2,500,000
WPT Bay 101 Shooting Stars $5,500 Main Event March 2004 2nd $200,000
2004 WSOP $5,000 Pot Limit Omaha May 2004 10th $21,000
EPT London £5,200 No Limit Hold’em September 2007 17th $24,480
PokerStars WCOOP $10,300 No Limit Hold’em September 2008 6th $139,635
PCA Main Event January 2011 11th $130,000
National Heads-Up Poker Championship March 2011 2nd $300,000
Now, explain to me why these results are so bad? Are you telling me you would classing yourself as a bad player and lucky donk for cashing in these? I don't understand your logic, it seems you are like everyone else who wants to jump on Chris, makes no sense. Everyone always says bad stuff about his play and how lucky he is etc. If these was anyone elses results, no one would say anything, why is it CHRIS everyone says it about?
Now, lets go to his online earnings.
So, UNLIKE many good live players he has a positive ROI% with nearly 100k in prizes. So yeah he must run good and be lucky to turn over a positive ROI with 2500 tournaments played, right?
I have a question for you. Do you even know why you think he sucks or is just a luck box? Are you like a sheep who has to follow what everyone says and actually have no idea what your going on about? Is it because you want people to reply to say "yeaha, I agree" just because it seems normal for everyone to bash Chris.
Lets also not forget one thing, you most like 80% of other players who call chris this and that woulden't even be playing if it wasn't for him.
So please...christ people like you annoy me. What do you want from him? He's a profitable player over a good sample of live/online tournaments what the hell more do you want? Do you want him to be a losing player online like most live "pros" or what?
e's not a great poker player, not even a good one, just a lucky one. JMO < < As for that comment. Yeah I can imagine you could teach him a few things or too eh? Not even a good one, just pure luck. Hell, why not put all your money from savings/house or whatever and play him over a decent sample size and bust him? Or not maybe? I'm guessing you would most likely back out because even if you played 100k games he would still be catching his cards to bust you or something?
How on earth can a part-time player (probs smallish stakes like me) dare have the cheek to even say someone playing the stakes he does he sucks and isn't even "good". Don't even say his play confirmed what I always thought, you maybe saw a few hands of his whole life of playing poker lol.
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RamdeeBen
Legend
Silver Level
My comment might of come across a bit abrupt and rude but I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing all this garbage from people about how someone is so bad and lucky and actually have no idea what they are talking about.
It's usually directed at Chris and I have no idea why, everyone slates him all the time for no good reason! Anyone in the world could boost about scores like this, Chris for some reason can't no one likes him, yet the results are very respectable in my opinion.
The only people in the world who can say someone is a bad player or not even good is someone who is actually better than him and can post better results online/live like him. Not very many can, only the Ivey's, Daniels etc and I think you have a cheek to even call him when you most likely haven't even earnt 0.0001% of the money he has. I think you're very disrespectful too.
I'm sorry if I have offended you, but I don't like people who bash other people without good reason.
I think it all boils down to what other people say about people. If a million people are saying someone is bad, then everyone tends to believe them. Try having your own mind and don't become a sheep!
ps: Headsup has the most varience etc. I'm guessing if the hands you watched were the exact same hands as Chris and played exactly the same way you would be saying "how great he played" if that person was Phil Ivey.
Rant over.
It's usually directed at Chris and I have no idea why, everyone slates him all the time for no good reason! Anyone in the world could boost about scores like this, Chris for some reason can't no one likes him, yet the results are very respectable in my opinion.
The only people in the world who can say someone is a bad player or not even good is someone who is actually better than him and can post better results online/live like him. Not very many can, only the Ivey's, Daniels etc and I think you have a cheek to even call him when you most likely haven't even earnt 0.0001% of the money he has. I think you're very disrespectful too.
I'm sorry if I have offended you, but I don't like people who bash other people without good reason.
I think it all boils down to what other people say about people. If a million people are saying someone is bad, then everyone tends to believe them. Try having your own mind and don't become a sheep!
ps: Headsup has the most varience etc. I'm guessing if the hands you watched were the exact same hands as Chris and played exactly the same way you would be saying "how great he played" if that person was Phil Ivey.
Rant over.
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KidVicious
Rising Star
Silver Level
Confirmed total fish
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
Question to OP, so if they only show a few of the hands played, how can we make an accurate assumption of the player's ability? I mean for any decent player they'd understand there are metagame things goin' on.. & without having seen other hands played it's pretty difficult to assess one's skill level (ie. what hands lead up to the hand that was captured for televised viewing audience).
fwiw, I have pokerprolabs 'topshark' (tournamentshark) attached to all tables I'm playing (&/or 'observing)& recall seeing Moneymaker deep in one of the HSMTT on Stars & was actually kinda surprised to see he had decent stats. (many poker site 'pros' don't have the greatest of online MTT stats.,.....I think he had profit of over $150k if I'm not mistakin'.. which is better than a fish obv.) I could check again... if he were playing that is... lol.
fwiw, I have pokerprolabs 'topshark' (tournamentshark) attached to all tables I'm playing (&/or 'observing)& recall seeing Moneymaker deep in one of the HSMTT on Stars & was actually kinda surprised to see he had decent stats. (many poker site 'pros' don't have the greatest of online MTT stats.,.....I think he had profit of over $150k if I'm not mistakin'.. which is better than a fish obv.) I could check again... if he were playing that is... lol.
illphillllllll
Rock Star
Silver Level
i think he is a way below avg. player compared to the pros but am not surprised at all that he has a profitable roi online. i'm sure he capitalizes on the fish who are trying to make moves on him because of his name and also using his "luckbox" reputation against people who don't respect his game. his live earnings are pretty terrible, if you account for the cost of buyins and travel expenses he would have paid if not for his sponsorship he would have been broke a while ago. not a fan or a hater of him but i think showing his live cashes isn't a fair way to gauge his skill level, there are members here that would have put up similar or better numbers if given his sponsorship deal imo. i think he catches a bad rap for someone who has done a great job marketing the game and being a decent payer who holds his own for the most part.
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
Really? Cuz I kinda doubt this. I mean the guy plays regularly in stuff like the $1,000 SuperTuesday so I kinda doubt that there's a bunch of fish tryin' to make moves on him in it.
His avg. buyin in MTT's on Stars is $256.23 (< not really too fishy of games) & he's played 2,584 mtt's, with an ROI +24%, Profit of $162,108 (not 'winnings'.. but 'profit'). That's far from great amongst the online MTT players but it's also far from bad imo.
Some of his bigger cashes are:
6th in $10,000 WCOOP-05 nlhe (Aug.2008) $139,635.00
3rd in $1,000 SCOOP-05-'H' PLO 1R/1A $55,257.00
1st in Wed. QuarterMillion ($300buyin) (Nov.2009) $46,875
5th in WCOOP-16 $215 PLO 1R/1A $28,665
4th in $1,000 SuperTuesday (Dec.2009) $28,462
In $1,500 avg. buyin HU Sng he's got a +ROI% (250'ish games played).
Colbefc
Legend
Silver Level
I an another who cannot understand how people keep on slating
Chris Moneymaker and saying he is a bad player who has just been lucky.
It is impossible to win the WSOP by being a bad player who has a lucky run.
I agree he is not the greatest player who ever lived but give the guy a break, he has won the WSOP and millions of dollars.
On top of that he seems a genuinely nice guy, I would much rather sitting at a poker table with him than Phil Helmuth or Tony G anyday.
Chris Moneymaker and saying he is a bad player who has just been lucky.
It is impossible to win the WSOP by being a bad player who has a lucky run.
I agree he is not the greatest player who ever lived but give the guy a break, he has won the WSOP and millions of dollars.
On top of that he seems a genuinely nice guy, I would much rather sitting at a poker table with him than Phil Helmuth or Tony G anyday.
alaskabill
Legend
Silver Level
I agree with everything except the bolded part. My answer is there. I agree that Chris is very good and a heck of a lot better than 99% of the people that bash him.
essambb
Rock Star
Silver Level
he is good poker player but i dont think he is the best in the field i think that andrew ropel and allan bosquit is the headsup spasailest
there is alot of luck in headsup tournemnet more than cash games that dosent show how good the player is the best poker player is the cash game spacialest
there is alot of luck in headsup tournemnet more than cash games that dosent show how good the player is the best poker player is the cash game spacialest
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pol_92121
Rock Star
Silver Level
i think so me too... and others like gold and danneman are not great poker player but they were lucky....
belerophon
Rock Star
Silver Level
I can't comment on if C.M. is good or not. I have watched him play online and he seems decent enough. What I do know is that he gets heckled by watchers mercilessly and needlessly.
Even if you think he can't play and it's all luck, it's like making fun of someone because they won the lottery. Why do it?
I'm sure when Chris soaks in his jacuzzi, pops open some Cristal to relax, the first thought on his mind is, "How come beantownmaniac doesn't respect my game?"
Even if you think he can't play and it's all luck, it's like making fun of someone because they won the lottery. Why do it?
I'm sure when Chris soaks in his jacuzzi, pops open some Cristal to relax, the first thought on his mind is, "How come beantownmaniac doesn't respect my game?"
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fugitive67
Rock Star
Silver Level
well between Moneymaker and Varkonyi ... this is why most of us got into it ... these guys were not impressive players, but they won and let's face it ... IMO, most any of us on this board could win the big one
let's put it this way ... u got a way better chance of winning the WSOP than winning the lottery ... even if you are only an above average player