Emrald Onyxx
Rock Star
Silver Level
What does it take to NOT see a showdown and still take the pot.
I went on a search and found a an article that I thought would help with others looking for more information on the "No Showdown Win"
Please include other items that you think a person might need to work on for the orginal goal of winning without a Showdown.
How to Improve Non-Showdown Winnings
By Daniel Skolovy
User rating: 4.96 out of 5 (396 votes)
Yes...... it's another article by Daniel Skolovy, but I think the guy just writes sensably about poker!
Since durrrr's always making his opponents fold before the hand even starts, his redline is upsloping.
online poker players who use stat tracking tools like Hold'em Manager or Poker Tracker know all about the "redline."
For live players, or players just starting out, "redline" winnings are your non-showdown winnings - hands you win without going all the way to a showdown
Non-showdown winnings can be seen in HEM or PT by going to your graph page and hitting "display showdown winnings." A red line will appear on your graph - that's your non-showdown winnings. Hence the name redline.
Why's this relevant? Lately on the online forums, it's become a bit of a pissing contest among players to have an upward-sloping redline - meaning you win more money than you lose in non-showdown pots.
Does it really matter? Yes and no. Of course you can still be a successful poker player with a negative redline. Different playing styles do different things to your graphs.
Where you run into problems is if your redline looks like a sharp downward slope.
Losing more than you win in non-showdown hands is a common leak that many players have - most notably 2+2 "legend" Fgators.
Fgators posted a now-famous thread in the BBV forum claiming he was the most unlucky player in the world and that because of his perpetual run-bad, he couldn't win at poker.
Fgators was a massive multi-tabler and played a ton of hands. And in that ton of hands, he definitely saw his share of bad beats. But that wasn't why he couldn't win.
His redline was the most depressing sight ever; a sharp, downhill line almost the exact opposite of his showdown winnings.
Because he was losing so much money in non-showdown pots, it almost didn't matter how much money he made at showdown. It could never make up for what he was losing.
What causes a downward sloping redline?
A downward sloping redline is caused by one thing: putting money in the pot and then folding.
That's it. If you're regularly putting money in and folding, your redline will suffer. If you do it often enough, your overall win rate is going to suffer.
Some common ways players regularly hurt their redline:
David Sklansky says "Don't be like Fgators."
So how do I avoid the dreaded downward-sloping redline?
Almost everybody that has a sharp, downward-sloping redline plays too many tables.
What too many tables is to one person may be completely different to another person. But if you're basically playing your session on auto-pilot, you're playing too many tables - and your non-showdown winnings will suffer.
The easy solution: play fewer tables. Think about each decision you have and weigh your different choices.
Some examples of how you can improve your redline:
Continuation-bet less and continuation-bet in better spots.
Focus on your opponent and his tendencies. If he's a calling station, you should be c-betting a lot less.
C-bet when the board seems to help your range, or if you plan on firing multiple barrels. If you're going to "one-and-done" the board, don't c-bet at all.
Fire more second barrels. Ditch that horrible one-and-done approach to c-betting. Think about your opponent's flop-calling range. Double barrel cards that strengthen your perceived range and hurt your opponent's range.
Fire more third barrels. Again, think about your opponent's calling range and your perceived range. Think about what type of hand he likely has and think about how much heat that hand can stand.
For example: you raise in the cut-off and a tight opponent calls in the big blind. The flop comes T
5
3
.
If you choose to c-bet this, you should be firing a ton of turns and rivers because your opponent will rarely have a big hand.
He's going to be three-betting most overpairs preflop and he's going to be peeling one or more streets with hands like 88, 99, and AT. Of those hands, few if any are going to want to call three streets.
If you fire one or two barrels then give up when he bets the river, you're losing a bunch of money without showdown.
Play your draws aggressively. Calling on the flop and the turn only to fold the river when your draw misses leaves money on the table.
When you play a draw aggressively, you have the added bonus of fold equity. This can increase your non-showdown winnings - not hurt them.
Play more hands in position. A simple one. When you're in position, you have the control.
Think about it. If you call a raise out of position, then check/call when you flop a gutter, when he fires the turn you have to fold.
Now think about if you have that same gutter in position. You can win by hitting that gutshot, or you can bet that turn when he checks to you and win it that way.
Bluff and semi bluff more. Just like in the last example, don't just play "fit or fold" poker. Look for opponents that have weak redline disease and punish them.
Find the one-and-done players, float their flop c-bets and take the pot away from them on the turn.
Seriously, just think.
Think, think, think
These are just a few examples of how you can improve your non-showdown winnings.
The main thing you have to do is think. Think about why you're doing what you're doing and ask yourself what you're hoping to accomplish.
If you're just betting for the sake of betting, your whole game is going to suffer.
A word to the wise
If you're a winning poker player, it's best not to obsess over having a positive redline.
If your style is working for you, continue with it. Chances are messing with what works is going to make you less money - not more.
If you're a fledgling poker player, though, and your redline looks like the Dave Murray downhill, you'd best make some changes now - or resign yourself to just being another one of the thousands of rakeback grinders out there.
I went on a search and found a an article that I thought would help with others looking for more information on the "No Showdown Win"
Please include other items that you think a person might need to work on for the orginal goal of winning without a Showdown.
How to Improve Non-Showdown Winnings
By Daniel Skolovy
User rating: 4.96 out of 5 (396 votes)
Yes...... it's another article by Daniel Skolovy, but I think the guy just writes sensably about poker!
Since durrrr's always making his opponents fold before the hand even starts, his redline is upsloping.
online poker players who use stat tracking tools like Hold'em Manager or Poker Tracker know all about the "redline."
For live players, or players just starting out, "redline" winnings are your non-showdown winnings - hands you win without going all the way to a showdown
Non-showdown winnings can be seen in HEM or PT by going to your graph page and hitting "display showdown winnings." A red line will appear on your graph - that's your non-showdown winnings. Hence the name redline.
Why's this relevant? Lately on the online forums, it's become a bit of a pissing contest among players to have an upward-sloping redline - meaning you win more money than you lose in non-showdown pots.
Does it really matter? Yes and no. Of course you can still be a successful poker player with a negative redline. Different playing styles do different things to your graphs.
Where you run into problems is if your redline looks like a sharp downward slope.
Losing more than you win in non-showdown hands is a common leak that many players have - most notably 2+2 "legend" Fgators.
Fgators posted a now-famous thread in the BBV forum claiming he was the most unlucky player in the world and that because of his perpetual run-bad, he couldn't win at poker.
Fgators was a massive multi-tabler and played a ton of hands. And in that ton of hands, he definitely saw his share of bad beats. But that wasn't why he couldn't win.
His redline was the most depressing sight ever; a sharp, downhill line almost the exact opposite of his showdown winnings.
Because he was losing so much money in non-showdown pots, it almost didn't matter how much money he made at showdown. It could never make up for what he was losing.
What causes a downward sloping redline?
A downward sloping redline is caused by one thing: putting money in the pot and then folding.
That's it. If you're regularly putting money in and folding, your redline will suffer. If you do it often enough, your overall win rate is going to suffer.
Some common ways players regularly hurt their redline:
- Continuation betting too often or in bad spots.
- Having a one-and-done approach to c-betting.
- Playing the out-of-position guessing game too often.
- Calling too often with draws and playing them passively (forcing you to fold when you miss).
- Calling raises with weak made hands only to fold to further action.
- Calling too many three-bets and folding too many flops.
- Check-calling weak hands that are essentially two-pair draws.
- Playing passively in three-bet pots as the aggressor.
David Sklansky says "Don't be like Fgators."
So how do I avoid the dreaded downward-sloping redline?
Almost everybody that has a sharp, downward-sloping redline plays too many tables.
What too many tables is to one person may be completely different to another person. But if you're basically playing your session on auto-pilot, you're playing too many tables - and your non-showdown winnings will suffer.
The easy solution: play fewer tables. Think about each decision you have and weigh your different choices.
Some examples of how you can improve your redline:
Continuation-bet less and continuation-bet in better spots.
Focus on your opponent and his tendencies. If he's a calling station, you should be c-betting a lot less.
C-bet when the board seems to help your range, or if you plan on firing multiple barrels. If you're going to "one-and-done" the board, don't c-bet at all.
Fire more second barrels. Ditch that horrible one-and-done approach to c-betting. Think about your opponent's flop-calling range. Double barrel cards that strengthen your perceived range and hurt your opponent's range.
Fire more third barrels. Again, think about your opponent's calling range and your perceived range. Think about what type of hand he likely has and think about how much heat that hand can stand.
For example: you raise in the cut-off and a tight opponent calls in the big blind. The flop comes T
If you choose to c-bet this, you should be firing a ton of turns and rivers because your opponent will rarely have a big hand.
He's going to be three-betting most overpairs preflop and he's going to be peeling one or more streets with hands like 88, 99, and AT. Of those hands, few if any are going to want to call three streets.
If you fire one or two barrels then give up when he bets the river, you're losing a bunch of money without showdown.
Play your draws aggressively. Calling on the flop and the turn only to fold the river when your draw misses leaves money on the table.
When you play a draw aggressively, you have the added bonus of fold equity. This can increase your non-showdown winnings - not hurt them.
Play more hands in position. A simple one. When you're in position, you have the control.
Think about it. If you call a raise out of position, then check/call when you flop a gutter, when he fires the turn you have to fold.
Now think about if you have that same gutter in position. You can win by hitting that gutshot, or you can bet that turn when he checks to you and win it that way.
Bluff and semi bluff more. Just like in the last example, don't just play "fit or fold" poker. Look for opponents that have weak redline disease and punish them.
Find the one-and-done players, float their flop c-bets and take the pot away from them on the turn.
Seriously, just think.
Think, think, think
These are just a few examples of how you can improve your non-showdown winnings.
The main thing you have to do is think. Think about why you're doing what you're doing and ask yourself what you're hoping to accomplish.
If you're just betting for the sake of betting, your whole game is going to suffer.
A word to the wise
If you're a winning poker player, it's best not to obsess over having a positive redline.
If your style is working for you, continue with it. Chances are messing with what works is going to make you less money - not more.
If you're a fledgling poker player, though, and your redline looks like the Dave Murray downhill, you'd best make some changes now - or resign yourself to just being another one of the thousands of rakeback grinders out there.
