| This is a discussion on Bluff-raising postflop within the online poker forums, in the Cash Games section; Some very general questions: -What kind of board textures do you bluff raise? -How does that change vs different opponents? ie thinking vs non-thinking? aggro ... |
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#1 | ||||
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| Bluff-raising postflop Some very general questions: -What kind of board textures do you bluff raise? -How does that change vs different opponents? ie thinking vs non-thinking? aggro vs passive? -Are you more likely to do it in position or out of position? Does this change based on flop texture/type of opponent? -What type of flop textures are you more likely to float rather than bluff raise? I find some pretty conflicting opinions on this and would like to hear more. |
| Play Texas Hold'em Online Poker | Bluff-raising postflop | |
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#2 | ||||
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| I'll discuss how I use this tatic, however I don't do this very often. 1. Avoid doing this on Broadway boards unless you have seen the villain play low pocket pairs aggressively. When a ace hits its not really worth ever trying here since many players range of raising hands are with aces. 2. I wouldn't do this to a loose player who just call your raise and you end up having to invest much more on the turn to try to win the pot. Also aggressive players range of hands is so big they could hit almost any flop. This tatic is best used on tight/semi tight players who are known to raising Broadway hands and Cbet lots of flops. 3. Check raising defending your blind where the villain can easily be holding garbage is easy way of doing this. You really can't do this much when you have position because most players wont donk bet into you. Similar to question 2, you try to put people on a range of hands that would likly miss this flop. 4. You could float draw heavy boards and raise when you either make your hand or a draw hits. This often scares people out of pots however you risking a lot of chips again floating with garbage. Note: If people notice you are doing this they will reraise you with much weaker hands, so keep this in mind. Could be helpful for getting action when you do have a hand. |
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#3 | |||||
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- wet flop, I'll be raising 100% of my sets/other big hands so I'll bluff raise hands where I have a marginal draw. Obviously the combo-draws I'm raising pretty much for value and the strongish draws like NFD I'll probably just flat because I don't want to get 3-bet. But say JT7 2-toned flop and I have A9 or Q8 without the flush draw I'd be likely to semi-bluff raise it. - dry flop, since we are very rarely floating extremely light I like bluff-raising these flops a bit along with raising them with hands like sets. If you get a very aggro opponent who tends to call down light I'd also be raising hands like AJ+ for value just because his range should be a lot of Ax and since generally people don't raise Ax on that board he'll put us on a nuts or air and on an Axx dry board that leaves only 2 possible flopped sets basically that we could have since we rarely/never flat AA preflop. But this only works against someone competent and preferably one who thinks you're a bit spewy. Quote:
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edit: Also I was fully expecting this to be a bump and you asking 3 years ago "omg is it ok sometimes postflop to raise when you don't actually have a made hand?" I was pleasantly surprised it was not . Last edited by zachvac : 18th May 2009 at 1:37 AM. |
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#4 | ||||
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| re: Bluff-raising postflop poker Quote:
Also, the all-important disclaimer: I play a 18/15 style 6-max, so simply for that reason I don't get to have "air" anywhere near as often as someone who plays 24/20 or whatever. #1: Texture. I think it's easier to say what kind of texture I'm not raising as a bluff, and that is coordinated boards. The problem with raising coordinated boards is that a lot of people have a hard time folding even medium pairs because they'll so happily assume you have a draw. And that's not even accounting for the fact that they may well have some kind of a draw themselves and will just reraise you. So when I bluffraise, it's probably not going to be on a board like J-T-8 twotone. I like bluffing really dry flops where my opponent can realistically believe that I have a hand like a medium pocket pair trying to protect from overcards, e.g. a flop like J-3-3, where I could conceivably have for instance 66-TT. #2: Different opponents. I basically don't bluffraise non-thinking opponents on the flop, mostly because I don't think they fold often enough. I guess it depends on what you mean by "thinking" but I don't make money by bluffing bad players, I typically make money valuebetting them. If I'm seeing a flop vs a fish I'm hoping to hit. I keep "fold-flop-cbet-to-raise%" up in the HUD, and I go by that more than the kind of player I'm facing. If I'm bent on bluffing very aggressive players, I try my best to do it in a way that sets me up to get the last raise in because what I really don't want to have happen is for them to rebluff me. But even then, it's rare for me to do it without SOME chance of winning; I very rarely go out on an all-in bluff with air. I like at least some kind of backdoor draw or overcard to fall back on the times that I get looked up. But like I said, I'm a nit, so it's hard for me to have absolutely nothing. #3: I'm more likely to do it in position, because I'm much more likely to have air in position than out of position. If we're talking semibluffs (flushdraws, combodraws, etc), then I'm probably more likely to get it in out of position mostly to negate the positional disadvantage while I still have a lot of equity, but it's rare for me to have 87s out of position. #4: Floating instead of raising: When I float, I'm typically representing either a big top pair, a monster or a medium PP taking one off, so it has to be a board that I can play like that. For instance a board like Q-7-3 where I flatcalled an MP raise on the button, he c-bets and I call. I could have 77, 33, KQ, AQ or a hand like TT. If I have a hand like JTs with a backdoor flush, this would be the kind of board I might float to try to take it away on the turn. But I very rarely float any flop without some chance of improving to what could conceivably be the best hand. |
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#5 | ||||
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| Started this when I had a few beers in me, I realize it's extremely general. Quote:
This was one of the bigger scenarios I was a little confused about, and I think the solution is just that it's completely opponent dependent. You have to know what level they're thinking at and play accordingly. For ex someone who's at the stage where they are lag/tag pf, cbet lots, but don't know how to continue past that point. Those are the guys we can bluff-raise dry Kxx/952/A22 flops knowing that even though we aren't repping anything, he's not smart enough to realize it and just calls/repops when he has it and folds when he doesn't. Quote:
And of course another general question gets a fairly general answer. Quote:
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#6 | ||||
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On a drawy board... We can raise because: - We can rep a big draw that intends to get all the money in, potentially scaring him off weak top pairs or worse - There are always more potential monsters on drawy boards vs dry ones combinatorially (lol sp? combinatorically? combinatorally?) Raising is bad because: - We rep draws and can call down lighter - Our opponents will have draws/monsters more often (just as we will) and will jam over our raise On a dry board: Raising is good because: - We can bluff raise repping hands that are protecting (ex med pairs on J33) - We don't rep weak draws - Our opponent can't have much Raising is bad because: - Are we really raising med pairs for value on J33? We have to have a dynamic where that would actually be plausible - Otherwise we're repping monsters which as we all know are so hard to make combinatorially that people often just omit them from our range - Therefore we get repopped as a bluff a TON (and should do this ourselves against aggro opponents) Quote:
The fold flop cbet to raise stat is something I use a great deal too. Again I get a little confused as to which I should be paying more attention to: the flop texture or that stat? Do we bluff raise A22 because he's got a %65 FFCBtR stat or do we give up because we know it hits his range lots? Quote:
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Doesn't flatting sets and top pairs just leave you repping basically nothing when you bluff raise that flop texture? |
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Edit: Some of the quotes didn't get added the first time; I must have cut something out accidently: Quote:
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#10 | ||||
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Or is this one of the "rarely" situations that you mean? |
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#11 | ||||
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But floating 76s on a A-J-2 flop is not something I do often. |
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#12 | ||||
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| re: Bluff-raising postflop poker Quote:
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Number of Posts: 13
Number of Authors: 6