Line on the table

Remember someone was discussing the line that you find on the table in some casinos, and whether cards are dead when they cross it.

Was amused to see it came up a few hours ago at the EPT Grand Final. Following is a cut and paste from the PokerNews live reporting:

Stig Bluffs Antonio, But Still Not Happy!

We caught the action with the board showing and Antonio Esfandiari facing a 90,000 bet in a huge pot with the lively Stig Top Rasmussen from Denmark.

Esfandiari deliberated over his decision, cutting out chips while firing questions at his opponent to try and get a read.

"Do you have a set of threes? Or do you have shit? Do you want me to call sir?" probed Esfandiari, all of which was simply ignored by Rasmussen. "Dealer, is he allowed to not answer me like that?"

After much hesitation and some near-calls, Esfandiari finally folded and Rasmussen flipped pocket fours for a successful bluff.

Following the hand, Rasmussen called the floor person over to lodge a protest against Esfandiari's near-calls/folds, which could be described as gamesmanship to try and get a read from his opponent. Rasmussen complained that Esfandiari's cards crossed the black line painted on the table and they should've been scooped into the muck. However the TD informed Rasmussen that the line actually has no enforceable qualities about it and is simply a visual guide for players and dealers.

After some more heated words from both players, everyone settled down and got on with the next hand. It's been a long day for these guys and the cracks are starting to appear!

Live Reporting | 2008 PokerStars.com EPT Grand Final - Monte Carlo | PokerStars.com European Poker Tour Grand Final

Does someone technically have to say fold then? I mean obviously if you throw your cards on the pile it is a muck, but otherwise you are expected to say your action?

Forward motion surrendering of your hand is considered a fold. I am aware that the line on the table isn't "enforceable" but I don't see why it wouldn't be. Why not have a succinct/quantifiable/physical manifestation of what constitutes "forward surrender" ? Really.

Am I the only one that thought this thread was going to be about cocaine?

Edit: Bummer.

LOL I would prefer an opiate if I had to choose.

My guess is that it's because not all casinos have lines on their tables, so it's hard for someone like the TDA to set it in stone. And that, in turn, means individual tournament directors would have to add "...and also if you do X it means Y and Z will happen" to the tournament brochures / structure sheets, rather than just the simple "This tournament will be run under TDA rules" that most of them use now.

Mostly, with this I was just amused that such a major example came up right after we discussed it here.