I can NOT play online

I think I'm a pretty solid poker player. I started playing live NL hold 'em about a year ago and in that time I've more than quadrupled my bankroll. I play in a couple of "just for fun" leagues as well and always do well, making the regionals and even the nationals.

But I SUCK at online poker. Sure, I've won a few sit-n-gos and free rolls. I even finished 9th in my first cardschat free roll on Sunday, but as a general rule - I SUCK out loud. I'm thinking of stopping playing online all together. People have told me to move up a couple of levels to avoid so much donk play, but I figure if I can't win at the lowest levels I'd be a fool to try any higher ones.

I guess I'm more of a "people" player than a "card" player so I guess I should just cut my losses now.

Yeah, I'm whining. I've wastes a whole day playing in tourneys with no wins or even in-the-moneys.

Anyone have any advice on how a player like me, who relies heavily on my ability to read other players can have success online?

yeah..with donkey ass moves like this, i cant stand it...Im gonna have to buy a new monitor again...LOL

AA VS KK (bulldog) and 2s6c calls both allins preflop....

God, when I read the first part of your post I thought you had a screen shot of some donkey move I'd made!

There is no way to "read" opponents online other than try to recognize betting patterns. This is usually hard, because some people use either very sporadic bets, or very similar bets. If you rely on reads for your play, you are better off either not playing online or playing at the lowest stakes, where you can donk just as much as everyone else.

I'm not a complete idoit. I do realize there's no way to read a player online the same way I do in a live game. I also said I rely heavily on my ability to read other players not that I rely totally on it. I have a good understanding of the game, (there's no way I could have had so much live success if my only virtue was being able to sniff out a bluff) but I have trouble "adding up the story" online. I don't know if it's a time issue, a patience issue or what, but I have trouble putting people on a hand online.

In my defense, I truly believe a lot of my trouble stems from the fact I am playing at the absolute lowest limits, and there's a lot of play at that level that makes no sense whatsoever. Not that I'm thinking of moving up, like I said, I believe that would be a mistake, but it is very hard to navigate the mine field that is the 2700 player free roll on full tilt.

Don't know how you like to play live, but I usually employ a pretty loose aggressive strategy live. I play and raise PF with a wide range of hands and try to steal pots when my opponents miss rather than simply when I hit. This gives the added perk of periodically getting paid off by my made hands because people have me on just trying to steal.

To put it simply, this doesn't work at low stakes online. People will call with way too many hands, and it's nearly impossible to push someone off a monster such as an open-ended straight draw, I mean that is the nuts right?

But I've also found that the way low-stakes online players play, you don't need to play loose-aggressive to get paid off when you hit your hands. So I've tightened up my PF hand selection (stealing blinds from good position is still profitable though, regardless of cards) and it's worked really well. I got paid off the other day on a flopped set with AK (no A or K on the board). Not sure how you like to play live, but as I mentioned, the bluff generally doesn't work very well in low-limit online play.

Continue to play your game. Unfortunately, the random generator at the online sites decide to give bad beats at times. Reading opponents really isn't that hard, you just have to catch the players tendencies. Several times, I have caught my opponents bluffing, or just donkeying off there chips to me.

lmao ,I thought the same thing , I thought he was calling you out .

If you already know you can do it , don't worry , bad swings happen , the donk plays win a percentage of the time but thats whats gonna bring you back up later. reevaluate your game ?, sure always . take some time to read more. play when you're fresh and feel good about your game. good luck .

Thank you all, there's some great advice in there. I've played four tourney so far today, busted out early in one, finished 137 in a 2700 player free roll, finished 3rd and in the money once, and am currently 3rd and in the money (in second chip position) in the fourth. I feel a bit better today than I did yesterday, but I know I still have a lot of work to do.

I agree with you that it is hard to read players on-line, but good poker play should beat donkey play in the end, no matter what the stakes be it play or real money. On-line you see alot of bad beats when everyone calls no matter what, but you also see a lot of bad beats, because you play lots of hands. In one night on-line you will play way more hands than you would play at live t ables in a week (it take time to drive to the game, get in the game etc. and it plays slower). On-line you can spend that same amount of time playing, waiting for decent hands, then play the hand not the guy. Thats my theroy and I'm going to try it!!! All- in

For a long long time, I defended the play at the lowest levels, with the caveat that the first several orbits are always treacherous. I still believe the low levels are a place one must feel comfortable at.

However, as I have progressed, and now find myself with an actual bankroll, I will admit the play changes as one moves up the levels. It gets more predictable. I am not sure that is a good thing though.

I am still playing micro limits when I play ring games, and small stakes in sng's. I may reward myself very soon with a try at a bigger stake sng or small MTT, probably favoring the sng.

If you have the br, try a step up, I learned that in many ways real money is easier than play money, or freerolls. Again, it seems more predictable.

At this point, I can equate $5 sng's to 10,000 play money sng's.

I just won my first sit-n-go on Poker Stars! Sure, it was only a $3, 10 handed game sit-n-go, but humor me I'm so happy right now I'm dizzy! I've played in several of these things today and after four 3rds, and a 2nd, this win has got me over the moon!

Yeah, I know, it takes so little to make me happy.

Congratulations on the win. =)

Thanks! I won another one this morning but so far this afternoon back to 2nds and 3rds and a bubble :-(

sit and go's are like cash games for tourney players and lots of people use them to fund the huge tourneys, Just remember to use strick bannkroll management and keep plugging away, you will become accustomed to betting patterns the more you see them.

also, there are still donks at every level. I find there is more donks playing the $20+$2 SnGs than the $2.25's on Full Tilt. Dont move up to avoid the donks because all you will do is jeopardise your bankroll.

No, I have no intention of moving up for a while. I'm doing fairly well at the $3 level but I haven't conquered it yet. I won't move up until I do.

i normally play alot of the five and up tourneys i never seem to play any dollar tourneys except for the furgeson . and thats always around midnight . there are alot of donkeys that tend to play the re-buys . why i do not know .

if you heavily rely on reads during a live game.. if you want to do well without learning ppls betting patterns, I'd recommend poker-edge.com
It compiles stats of players and you can see how they play from the datamined hands they have played in the past. Hands are compiled from all users of poker-edge.com into a central database, so you can see stats of players u have never even sat down with in the past.

Good luck and enjoy

As stated above any tourney or SNG w/ $10 or less buy in is going to have donkey play. Keep playing fairly strict PF hand requirements and you will have success. Then inevitable donkey bad beat is going to happen regardless of what you do. If and when it does happen review how you played it and make sure you feel you made the right play. If you feel you could have played it differently make adjustments to your game and go from there. Good Luck.

U should definatley try to play at an upper level.....Players are spo much beter becasue they are putting actualy money up instead of a freeroll entry.....try some 5 dollar sngs or 10 dolla sngs's....usually very good play in those on pokerstars and tilt

In online to the game there are many advantages! I play more often alive!
The generator works better))))