Bankroll management only applies to winning players who are playing for a living.So sure, if you want to grind on tournaments only as a way to make a living, yes you need 100 buy-ins to deal with variance.


If, however, you just want to play in a tournament one time, or even like once a week, all you need is 1 buy-in.


I play a live tournament at the local casino once a month. The buy-in is $175, there is no way that I need $17,500 is a seperate account (bankroll) to play this tournament, I just need $175 and I need to understand that in 2 weeks I get another paycheck if I would like to play it again!

I agree m8... BRM is for building a roll over time, trying to beat the game and move up in stakes...if you're just having fun it doesn't really matter..

Originally Posted by tcummo

I agree m8... BRM is for building a roll over time, trying to beat the game and move up in stakes...if you're just having fun it doesn't really matter..

That statement sounds like you are implying that I don't play that tournament to win or I somehow look at it like "just for fun".
No, I'm a serious player who tries to supplement my income with poker. I do follow BRM for cash games, but then again I play a lot of cash games live and online. I do have a bankroll for those games and I do stick to a strict minimum of 20 buy-ins per level.

I guess tournaments are like taking shots to me.....

No you don't need 100 buyin. However if you play one on a regular basis you need about minimum 20 unless if it a one off shot.

I take a shot once in a while at a big tourney only way you gain exp. I also tend to stay around 50 buyins on my regular schedule games.

Originally Posted by joeisi

No you don't need 100 buyin. However if you play one on a regular basis you need about minimum 20 unless if it a one off shot.

I take a shot once in a while at a big tourney only way you gain exp. I also tend to stay around 50 buyins on my regular schedule games.

That realy depends of what are you playing... 40-50 might be enough for bounty tournaments since there you make bigger profit with going in last 3-5% of field, but on regular tourneys where money is practicly only on FT you need more...

You are absolutely right you should not have 100 buy-in to know how to manage your bank and overcome the variance but if you play only tournaments and that's what you do if you should have a good budget to avoid those bad times if you only play a tournament in specific 1 time to the week or the month you simply have to have 1 buy-in to play it

I guess I made this thread because I hear it a lot.. "$175 tournament? You know you need $17,500 in your roll to play that one, right?"Um no, you just need $175

Originally Posted by Smokewood

I guess I made this thread because I hear it a lot.. "$175 tournament? You know you need $17,500 in your roll to play that one, right?"Um no, you just need $175

+1

For some reason you get a lot of "rule of thumb" info floating around.


I actually think it is good to have a larger bank for cash games, but this doesn't really apply to tournaments. Most players don't even come close to 20 buy-ins for tournaments, 100 would be crazy.


I just think it isn't necessary. If this was the case, no one would play tournaments. To play in the WSOP main event you would need to have a bank of 1,000,000.00 (1 million dollars). In smaller tournaments like a 1000.00 tournament you would need 100,000.00. Most poker pros go broke many times, it happens. There are a ton of people in the WSOP that are being staked because they don't have the 10k to buy in. Even well known pros like Durrr play a LOT on staked money.

100 buy in rule applies to online Sngs and MTTs , you don't need that if just playing a live tourney once every 2 weeks

The truth is somewhere in the middle. You may don't need to have 17.000€ to play a 170€ tourney. But, if 170€ is your whole bankroll then playing that in a single tournament is foolish.

In your situation you say, "Hey since I can get a pay check next month if I have 170€ to enter a tournament, that means I have 170€ to enter a tourney! But.. Doing that thing every month for a year, means you have a yearly bankroll of 2.000€ for poker. If 170€ was all you had for that year, playing in a 170€ tournament buyin is not your best decision. That's the reason people talking about minimum buyins.


Now let me tell you an example, you play in that 170€ tourney and you win 1.000€. So now you can enter a 1.000€ tourney? You surely can, but if you do that, it is guaranteed that sooner or later you will end with zero profit or below.


Now, in your defence, Negreanu thought the same thing when started playing poker. He made the calculations and saw that to be able to have the minimum buyins for the games he wanted to play, it would take him decades. So he took the short path. But its Negreanu we are talking about.

This thread made me chuckle. Very true, the Sunday million doesn't ask you to show them your $21,500 bank statement before you register, if you've got the 215 bucks then you're in the tournament. There's a big focus these days on BRM all of which I'm in agreement with because I've seen how violent the swings are in pro careers. But yes if you are just playing once a week for fun and don't care about the outcome then I say go for it. Just remember not to whine when your big pair gets cracked by a set during the first hand of the tournament. It can and will happen.

Who knows players who play for a living? I don't play for a living.I know of many who do (or who have) & scoffing at a 100buyin bankroll for playing online MTT's is laughable. Ask the pros... ask the regs., most will suggest it is actually 200 buyins needed.... so I guess in fact you guys are correct, you do not need 100 buyins.

Originally Posted by karl coakley

+1

Most players don't even come close to 20 buy-ins for tournaments, 100 would be crazy.

Most players online are spending at least 20 buyins a day. 100 would be cutting it close. 200 would be far better.

As I play poker for a hobby, not professionally. This is pretty accurate for my situation. I normally throw 50$ a week in for a juicy tournament on Bovada or ACR. If I win, great. If I lose, no big deal.

Brm is important if u don't want to lose your bankroll. However I use different bankroll rules depending on what site I'm on and what type of game I'm playing. I certainly don't need 100 buy ins to make sure I don't lose my roll though it's important to stick to rules that work for you. If your happy to reload of course it matters less.

BRM is vital if you plan on playing a lot. You are not going to cash every buy in. So if your playing a lot you will deplete your roll quickly if you don’t have much. 100 buy ins is not gonna last long if you go on downswing. Variance is a bitch.

You're right. It's your money and you can spend it wherever you want. 100 buy-ins is not the ultimate truth. The main thing that it was not the last money for life.

Originally Posted by Poker Orifice

Who knows players who play for a living? I don't play for a living.I know of many who do (or who have) & scoffing at a 100buyin bankroll for playing online MTT's is laughable. Ask the pros... ask the regs., most will suggest it is actually 200 buyins needed.... so I guess in fact you guys are correct, you do not need 100 buyins.

+1

My big field tournament is 200/300 BI (I am a bank roll nit )

Small field 100

The recommendations is a guide for players who gamble way too much, I believe having a good BRM is a good thing especially in tournaments as there is a lot more variance in tournaments than in cash, so for that reason alone I am all for having a good BRM.

Pros need a Bankroll, Amateurs need a budget.

Originally Posted by Ragequit

Pros need a Bankroll, Amateurs need a budget.

I agree 100%.
You set aside a portion of your paycheck. If you lose that amount it is just like a stop lose. Your bankroll is actually much bigger than you think because you have a paycheck coming in every 2 weeks (or whatever).

So you take say $200 to the casino of money you would have just put in your savings account and play some $1/$2 at the casino.

I play freeroll and hope, what i win something and next time win in other tournament.

For beginner it's fair, but for who have some notion can be half of it

Originally Posted by Smokewood

Bankroll management only applies to winning players who are playing for a living.So sure, if you want to grind on tournaments only as a way to make a living, yes you need 100 buy-ins to deal with variance.


If, however, you just want to play in a tournament one time, or even like once a week, all you need is 1 buy-in.


I play a live tournament at the local casino once a month. The buy-in is $175, there is no way that I need $17,500 is a seperate account (bankroll) to play this tournament, I just need $175 and I need to understand that in 2 weeks I get another paycheck if I would like to play it again!

I would agree to some extent. I am just starting out and want to get better and I enjoy playing every night. I deposit once a month and try to make it last. It never does. I want to learn about BRM so I can make my money last longer and I can keep playing and improving.

Every Bankroll management advice I've seen says you need the XXX buy in's "unless you are planning to reload" which you and every other recreational player is doing.

Originally Posted by Smokewood

I guess I made this thread because I hear it a lot.. "$175 tournament? You know you need $17,500 in your roll to play that one, right?"Um no, you just need $175

for recreational players who play once a week or twice a month this is ok. but if someone, playing online, open 3-5 tables and have 175$ limit for a week/month, which bi do you think he choose? thats irrational having 100$ play 100$ tournament, and after badbeat on the 4 - 5 min after mtt starts go sleep with no money for re-buy!

Is this rule not for people who are making a living out of poker? It always depends on the situation you are in playing poker. Some people have bigger swings then others.

Originally Posted by rmcneice

Every Bankroll management advice I've seen says you need the XXX buy in's "unless you are planning to reload" which you and every other recreational player is doing.

Actually there have been MANY members on this site (who are recreational players, often playing micro to low buyin mtt's) who pride themselves on building bankrolls, NEVER having to deposit again (many have done it without ever depositing). I'm not currently one of them but I was at one point. Today I don't play very many MTT's.

awesome topic, I did hear J little stress that, like be prepared to go 100 buy ins without cashing. but seriously, if you had that much sitting around 17k plus, your better off keeping it and do what got you to save it.

As long as my bills and my girl is happy and my boys get what they need then I'm playing!!
True that!!

It’s mainly 100x bi rule online without wanting to bust your account. And even 100x isn’t a huge roll for playing mtts.

Yes if you play 1 live mtt a week/month, your still playing to win but you aren’t dependant on beating these games over time as it’s not your sole income/ not trying to build a roll.
If you loose you loose if you win you have some extra cash on top of your weekly pay cheque.

If you are grinding and wanting to beat the games you play and don’t want to be constantly depositing hen yes 100x should be the minimum that you play at.

BRM is only applicable to folks who need it. I need to keep it in mind at all times. I have a fixed, small income, and will for the rest of my life. It covers the basics, but not much more. I am determined to NOT deposit at any site, ever again. I have to keep BRM in mind. However, 100x is a no go. I understand variance and my ability to deal with it. I won't go to 50% of my br on any single game, but if I felt good I might go play a game with 25%.

That 100x thing is more associated with ring games than tourney's.

However, If something happens, like I win the lotto, you can be sure BRM will not play a big part (if any at all) in my poker decisions.

I say go for it. Most really succesfull people brake the rules to make it.

Hello freind!

You said it yourself : 100 buy ins is for those who want to grind online, and even though, it is just a bankroll management strategy, that is proven to be a safe way to play tourneys.

But whenever you want to play something and you have the buy in for it, you have no reason not to! It is your money and you can come up with a strategy that suits you and that is not that standard

GL

Originally Posted by Smokewood

That statement sounds like you are implying that I don't play that tournament to win or I somehow look at it like "just for fun".
No, I'm a serious player who tries to supplement my income with poker. I do follow BRM for cash games, but then again I play a lot of cash games live and online. I do have a bankroll for those games and I do stick to a strict minimum of 20 buy-ins per level.

I guess tournaments are like taking shots to me.....

So, you are saying when you have time & the discretionary income & the interest in doing so you treat a higher buy in tourney, which you feel you have the skills to cash in, as say, dinner & a movie, or dinner & a night at a club or some such form of entertainment. In other words, you are saying that you practice sensible bankroll management. You sound like an informed, rational adult who uses BRM & common sense to make your decisions. BRM threads are common sense suggestions for clueless or semi-clueless newbies who may wish to adopt poker as an affordable or even profit making pastime as opposed to turning into degenerate, whining gamblers. When you know not what you do, a suggestion to be over cautious is not out of line.

So keeping with BRM and restaurant analogy. If my restaurant BR is ~$1,000 I can afford to go to the Charthouse since I'll probably spend about 1/10 of it. But if I only have a $100 BR I should go to Steak and Shake and not try the Charthouse just to be cautious?

Of course you don't need such a huge bankroll , the main idea behind that 100 buy ins rule is that you mustn't redeposit and be a profitable player in the long term.

You playing once a week this nice live tournament apparently you don't need 17K for bankroll. You have already made your calculations and seems that you can afford it!

If you are a loser or a winning player in the long term seriously who cares? That's your hobby and you having a good time whenever you play!For the vast majority of the CCers Poker is a hobby. If we make some bucks that's more than welcome.


Have Fun

Originally Posted by Poker Orifice

Actually there have been MANY members on this site (who are recreational players, often playing micro to low buyin mtt's) who pride themselves on building bankrolls, NEVER having to deposit again (many have done it without ever depositing). I'm not currently one of them but I was at one point. Today I don't play very many MTT's.

I am a recreational player but I too want to build a bankroll so I don’t have to keep depositing. That is what I’m challenging myself to do. I love playing poker but my money doesn’t last as it should. I’m still trying to cut out all the bad habits and mistakes from my game. Any advice for not loosing it all after building up bankroll?

If you wish to play recreationally, at one time or another within your limit even because you already has another source of income, maybe think about this issue is unnecessary.

who else plays poker only for fun these days? there are less and less people who do that

I play only freerools and MTT's ,I'm poor but love poker so,my options are only this.

Of coarse it is only for players who want to profit from poker . When you are playing for fun or entertainment purposes you play what you can bankroll . But even then you are using BR management you effectively have the buy in required in your future bank as you are pulling it from earnings when your bankroll changes ie your work or paycheque you will most likely change your buy in so it is effective the same

Hello, for me it's like they said. You do not necessarily need that amount of buy ins. It depends a lot on the tournaments you play. If you are not a regular player at least you'd have 20 to 40 buy ins. But if you're a regular player at least 100 buy in. All this to keep your bank roll. As I say it depends on the player. If you have something more specific to help. regards

Of course, you don't need 100 buy-ins for making a shot somewhere in a tourney.
But if you are doing this on a regular basis, then you might be a loosing player.
And then it wouldn't be fun for me. I love to play, but it doesn't mean, that I have less fun with lower buy-ins or freerolls.
It also depends how conservative or aggressive your brm is and what kinde of tourney your are playing.

Once I posted here a table about this and I guess, check this, if you want.
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tour...gement-328651/

Of course BRM guidelines are only a suggestion. But poker can be a very cruel game and variance can really destroy you if you're not careful.

If you're a recreational player it doesn't matter, but an MTT grinder can burn through 30+ buy-ins in a day (with rebuys/addons). If you hit a week-long downswing, your 100 buy-in roll is gone. I've seen MTT grinders on Twitch with 300+ buy-ins, sometimes more. Same for cash players. You go on a downswing, say goodbye to your 30 buy-in roll.

Generally, the more buy-ins you have the better, but its up to the individual player. Your roll should be deep enough so that it allows you always play your A game and not tilt or be anxious about variance and bad beats.

To be fair Bankroll management guidelines were only invented for people who kept going up in stakes until they got unlucky once or twice and lost it all. It never applied to the rec that wants to have fun once in a while

If you have the possibility to generate income, in an environment outside of poker, that is an advantage that can allow you to make a larger purchase for a tournament.
Remember that your bankroll is formed not only by all the net income you have now to play, but also by all the other extra income, which you can apply entirely to poker.
Greetings.

Do most players who make a living off poker focus on Tourneys?

Originally Posted by witfighter

Do most players who make a living off poker focus on Tourneys?

Yes, some only play tournament , some only cash, some mix. Which ever is more fun too them

Yes you only need one buy in, but in tournaments you tends to min cash ,lose, min cash, lose , lose, big win,lose,lose. But if you only play once every two weeks,you might not see what happens when you put in volume

I totally see where you are coming from. I get out to the local casino only a handful of times a year. I play in tournaments with $100 - $500 buy-ins. There's no way I set aside $30,000 (assume an average $300 buy-in) to play. I simply take my buy-ins out of my budget. I can cover a $300 buy-in by simply skipping a few nights at a restaurant with the family or foregoing that new gadget/game/etc I was thinking about buying. Also, some of the tournaments I play have bounties, which help offset the cost of the buy-ins. I've already won 3 bounties in the last 2 tournaments I played.

funny thread. "I don't need x amount of money to play." Then states he has income, i.e. the required X amount to play. OP is just counting his salary as his bankroll