Turbo SNGs vs Regular and general advice wanted

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Rabidus

Enthusiast
Hey guys, I'm looking for a bit of advice..hope you can help me out!

I started playing Sit N Go's online in December after playing nothing but a few games of low limit over the past couple of years.

After some immediate success at the $20 tables, it tailed off and I've since been playing a mix of $10 and $20 tables. (I know..bankroll management alert).

I hadn't really been taking it seriously but am just starting to now. I bought my first book (HoH) and have been reading a lot lately online. Mixing what I've learned in the book and on the forums with what I've learned playing over the past 8 weeks has really helped me better understand the game.

Almost all of the SNGs I've played so far have been speed or turbo games.

I've played 44 $20 games with the following results:

  • First 11.36%
  • Second 11.36%
  • Third 4.55%
A net loss of $88


I've played 60 $10 games with the following results:

  • First 10%
  • Second 11.67%
  • Third 13.33%
A net gain of $10


I've played the vast majority of these games very intoxicated. My job leads to a lot of late night meetings and drinks and I've been playing when I get home and I know it's affected my judgement severely on occasion.

I have no aspirations of being a great player (although that would be nice) but enjoy playing NL and would be happy to be a break even or profitable player. I feel I'm not too far off if I buckle down and start taking the game seriously.

Here is my current plan..please let me know if you have any advice or if I'm doing something wrong. I want to learn!
  • Play only $10 SNGs and the odd low entry MTT. I've tried a few lower level SNGs ($3 and $6) but prefer the play at $10 or higher.
  • Top my current bankroll up to $200 (currently a bit over a hundred. so far, I haven't been managing a bankroll at all but just adding a few bucks here and there).
  • Quit drinking completely. This will be tough with work but it's something I can persevere through.
  • Not play when I'm getting bored or losing. I've been chasing losses.
  • Start playing regular SNGs instead of turbos. I played my first regular last night and came first. (this is a main reason why I'm posting..see below).
  • Continue to read, play and learn as much as possible.
  • Spend more time evaluating my hands and games to try to learn where I errored.
I remember reading on here that turbo SNGs have more variance than regular games as you have to chip up quicker. I believe this is true and found the game I played last night much easier to play a patient game. What are the general thoughts on this?

I was thinking if I can consistently place in a regular $10 game, I might try adding a second. I've tried multi tabling turbo games in the past with mixed results. I believe the slower game will allow me more success than the turbos but I don't plan to multi table at all unless I can consistently win with one table.

So, any advice on my current strategy? Am I missing something or am I mislead? Also, what are your thoughts on the turbo games?

Thanks to anyone that replies and this is a great board/community!

Rab
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
One thing I noticed which I think is the most important thing that you need to change (even moreso than in your plan) is to either put a few more bucks in your bankroll, or play at lower stakes.

If you can afford it, and can play profitable poker at the $10s, then you should have at very minimum a $200 bankroll. Even then, by the way it sounds you're not yet a winning player, and you should pad it a little more. They say never to play with more than %5 of your bankroll, but even that's a little much sometimes. I'd say if you can afford it, have around $300+ if you're going to play the $10s.

Obviously cutting down on the drunk SnGs is a good idea :p so that's good that you've identified that problem.

If you have any problems with specific hands/situations in a SnG then just post them in the hand analysis section and you'll definitely get some helpful responses.
 
R

Rabidus

Enthusiast
One thing I noticed which I think is the most important thing that you need to change (even moreso than in your plan) is to either put a few more bucks in your bankroll, or play at lower stakes.

If you can afford it, and can play profitable poker at the $10s, then you should have at very minimum a $200 bankroll. Even then, by the way it sounds you're not yet a winning player, and you should pad it a little more. They say never to play with more than %5 of your bankroll, but even that's a little much sometimes. I'd say if you can afford it, have around $300+ if you're going to play the $10s.

Obviously cutting down on the drunk SnGs is a good idea :p so that's good that you've identified that problem.

If you have any problems with specific hands/situations in a SnG then just post them in the hand analysis section and you'll definitely get some helpful responses.

Thanks for the advice!

As long as I stay at the $10 level for a while, I think $200 should be okay. I've never had a losing streak more than 6 games on $10 tables which I've done twice and they always been followed by winning streaks. (although history doesn't dictate the future)

Also, if I do go broke with the $200 on $10 tables, it should give me a good break to evaluate what went wrong. I'd rather identify the problems as soon as possible.

I'll definitely post a couple of hands. Most times I can easily see what I did right/wrong but there have been a few that some advice would help with.

Any thoughts on the turbo vs. regular SNGs?
 
Stefanicov

Stefanicov

Legend
Definatly try out the regular games. At the beginning of my poker playing i played exclusivly turbos and that taught me a lot but the variance in them is crazy to play 16 buck turbos you need a roll of 500 i managed to stay profitable only by good results in 180 seat sngs. When i changed to regular the variance slowed down and i started winning regular money rather than going through spells of winning hundreds and the losing hundreds. If you want to become a break even or profitable player it is not so hrd to do so but you hve to learn fom your mistakes and read everything you can on the game.

Good luck:D
 
Stefanicov

Stefanicov

Legend
Oh yeah and the turbos are shark infested too the regulars are definatly lower standard of players

And if at all possible change the site you play at the party sngs are crazy at the 10 buck level
 
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ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Ya just stick with the regulars if possible. Turbos require a different set of skills with low-M situations (basically small stack:blind ratio) since the blinds go up so frequently. If you're used to regular SnGs, just stick with them. You'll find that turbos are a whole different monster.
 
R

Rabidus

Enthusiast
Great to hear. Thanks!

Sounds like our beginning experience is similar. I've seen drastic swings of +/- $300 in one day playing the turbos.

After playing my first non turbo game last night, it was almost refreshing and was a much better pace.

Nice to hear about the sharks in the turbos too. I feel I've done okay in them considering the effort I've put in. Hopefully I'll see that translate to some success at the slower tables.
 
R

Rabidus

Enthusiast
Ya just stick with the regulars if possible. Turbos require a different set of skills with low-M situations (basically small stack:blind ratio) since the blinds go up so frequently. If you're used to regular SnGs, just stick with them. You'll find that turbos are a whole different monster.

Since I've played only turbos, I'm almost worried that the skills I've developed so far might hurt me a bit in the slower tables. But..I'm not sure. I'll try them for a week or so and see how it goes.
 
R

Rabidus

Enthusiast
Oh yeah and the turbos are shark infested too the regulars are definatly lower standard of players

And if at all possible change the site you play at the party sngs are crazy at the 10 buck level

What do you mean by crazy at Party? It's actually the only site I've played at so far but I've been planning to try some others out.

What do you recommend? A lot of people here seem to use Stars.
 
Stefanicov

Stefanicov

Legend
Ok this maybe a sladerous charge but i have played a 10 buck sng on party where 6 pple went all in first hand now this makes it lower standard of player but you dont learn much from it. I personally would recommend stars or tilt but thts because i dont stray to far away from stars any more

Try reading the review section tht has some helpfull advice


+ party sngs do not have a massive player pool while other sites do
 
R

Rabidus

Enthusiast
Ok this maybe a sladerous charge but i have played a 10 buck sng on party where 6 pple went all in first hand now this makes it lower standard of player but you dont learn much from it. I personally would recommend stars or tilt but thts because i dont stray to far away from stars any more

Try reading the review section tht has some helpfull advice


+ party sngs do not have a massive player pool while other sites do


Okay cool. Yeah, I definitely noticed play like that. It's mainly why I was playing the $22 games as I found the caliber of play better and seemed to win more. Unfortunately, I had neither the bankroll or skills to maintain that level.

I've noticed the $10 games vary drastically. Some games seem to be mostly skilled players, other games are mostly dreck. I can't really place it as a certain time of day or players from a particular country either..it seems pretty random.

I'll do a deposit to Stars this weekend and give them a shot.

Thanks,

Rab
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Since I've played only turbos, I'm almost worried that the skills I've developed so far might hurt me a bit in the slower tables. But..I'm not sure. I'll try them for a week or so and see how it goes.

Oh didn't notice that. Well by the sounds of it ($300 swings with a $100 bankroll!??) you're experiencing a whole lot of variance. With turbos, you'll generally get much biggers swings because the variance is just so high in them with all the pushes.

If you have the time for longer games, stick with the regulars and you'll find your swings are much much smaller.
 
R

Rabidus

Enthusiast
Yeah, started with $50, went to a bit over $500 in one day on the $22s. Back down to $100 the next day...lots of variance on the $22 turbos.

Sticking to the regulars for now to try to settle my game out.

Thanks ChuckTs!
 
A

alan1983

Visionary
Im hating turbos right now lol.

I used to win them fairly often but i just realised the 16$ ones are all tight and u get to high blinds and its just all-in fest then.

No way you could have regular results i think. At least not me. But i think some do since i see many players multitabling them all day. Bubbled out of 2 back 2 back just now when AQ was beat by 82 and 65 :D.

I havent played regular for a while though, but yes although i went through phase where i liked turbos better now im thinkin i better switch back 2 regular...

Im sick of trying 2 figure out whether the guy on button who went all-in actually has a hand or not
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

Legend
I've played 60 $10 games with the following results:

  • First 10%
  • Second 11.67%
  • Third 13.33%
I think that you may be playing too loose, I've learned through this forum that the proper way to play regular SnGs is to play TAG, over some time using this strategy, you should see these stats increase considerably and definitely cut out the booze while playing, I've played drunk once and I'll never do it again, too many bad plays on my part and lost $40 during a course of 2-3hrs playing ring games.
When playing SnGs you should play for a money spot, then when ITM, switch gears.
Play premium hands only in the very early stages of a SnG.
 
R

Rabidus

Enthusiast
Just an update...'cause I know you all care. :)

Since enacting my plan, I've played 8 regular SNGs with the following results.

1st - 2x (25.00%)
2nd - 1x (12.5%)
3rd - 1x (12.5%)
4th - 3x (37.5%)

This is a small sample of data so far but interesting for me to note anyway. Overall in the money 50% of the time for a net profit of $62.

What really concerns me though is my play on the bubble. Three 4th place finishes.

I need to go back and see where I screwed up on 2 of them. The other I was low stack all-in with AK and lost to A2. Not much I could have done about that.

Overall, I think that's where I want to concentrate the most though. 4th or higher 7 out of 8 times. I need to improve the bubble play.

Cheers
 
RideN2Aces

RideN2Aces

Enthusiast
I am a big turbo hater. IMO They teach bad poker and most of the time they turn into a crap shoot.
If you are just learning ,regular sngs would be the way to go.
You see more hands and have more time before the blinds get massive.
You can then learn the strategies for the different stages of a sng(start, middle, end).
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

Suckout Queen
Sometimes it's hard to switch to reg sng's. You sometimes jones at the slow pace. One thing you should look at. Different sites have different level ups for their turbos. Stars I believe have levels of 5 minutes for their turbos. Can't think of the site but one has levels of 1 minute for their super turbos.

Full Tilt and Absolute have some pretty tight SNGs. If those stats are true you could do good there.
 
W

whyme250

Guest
I would suggest starting at the $1 +.10 sit and go's gaining some experince at them then building at least 35 buy-ins before you advance to the next sit and go's level by the time you reach the $10 and $20 buy-ins you have there standard of play and have seen thousands of hands and have gained valuable experince while profiting and building your bankroll.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
What really concerns me though is my play on the bubble. Three 4th place finishes.

I need to go back and see where I screwed up on 2 of them. The other I was low stack all-in with AK and lost to A2. Not much I could have done about that.


I think getting 4th more than 3rd is actually a good thing - that is if that aggressive play on the bubble is giving you a chance to take 1st rather than just limp into the money.

Of course by getting aggressive, I don't mean getting stupid - selective aggression is key. obv. going bust with AK vs A2 is nothing to 'fix'. Bubble play is a tricky thing; try posting those 'screw ups' in the HA section and you'll get some great responses.
 
Irexes

Irexes

Legend
Hello, sounds like you are focussing on all the right things. Recording your results is a good step.

In a 10 player sit and gos if you can make the money 35%+ of the time over 200+ buy-ins you are doing really well. A decent sample is a lot higher. It's good to keep an eye on your %ages from the start but give them a chance to even out, you will have a run of 8 or 9 out of the money at some point and you'll probably win three in a row and feel invincible.

What dictates how much you earn though rather than the ITM is the ratio of 1st and 2nds you have.

You can afford to have fewer in the monies if you have more than your share of 1sts. If you get around 15% 1sts you are looking at a great return.

To calculate how you are doing use the formula for Return on Investment, this shows you how much you are earning for each $1 invested.

ROI% = (money won/money spent) * 100

So if you've won $150 and spent $100 your ROI% is 150%

which means for every dollar you are winning $1.50

you'll see big swings as you record this to start, but in the long run anything approaching 20% is good and anything over 10% more than respectable, over 20% and you're on fire :)

This may seem low at the moment, but it'll come into perspective as you play more. I've got over 300 $33 and 300 $55 logged and I'm 12.2% for the 33s and 16.1% for the 55s and the have been some huge swings both up and down in there.

Anyway gl :)
 
R

Rabidus

Enthusiast
Great post. Thanks.

So far I have 117 sit n goes at the $10 and $20 level.

I'm in the money 30.77% all time with a breakdown of:

1st - 9.40%
2nd - 11.11%
3rd - 10.26%


For just the $10 games which I'm only playing now I'm in the money 32.88% with a breakdown of:

1st - 8.22%
2nd - 10.96%
3rd - 13.70%

I've played 73 $10 games and 44 $20 games.

So my stats are starting to round out a bit with this much data and the streaks are meaning less.

Also, in the past week my ITM stats have increased since I switched to $10 games only.

The 4th place finishes are still my focus. I know I've screwed up on occasion. I still don't have a definitive style to use. Sometimes I try to limp in to the money, sometimes I get aggressive in 4th and try to chip up for 1st place which often gives me a 4th spot.

I need to figure that out. I'll post some hand histories.

Since all of these games have been my only NL games. I'm pretty happy so far. Lots of room for improvement but a good start.

Thanks for all the help/info guys!

Rab
 
W

Warui Guy

Rising Star
At turbo sit n gos you dont have the luxury of playing only premium hands. By the time you actually get an AQ or better, the blinds are already high, a shorter stack is forced to go all in making u bet 3/4 of your stack, Normal sit n gos are better if you want to take your time and play premium hands only.
 
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