Recommended Tourneys to Build Bankroll?

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sundizzel

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I'm wondering which types of tournaments and/or structures are best for grinding up a bankroll given no time constraints or other obligations.

I started playing poker about 3 months ago and have managed to run my bankroll up to about $300 from freerolls and super-micros. I am abiding by the 0.3% of bankroll ($1) ABI for MTTs and 1.0% of bankroll ($3) ABI for SNGs, although I admittedly play almost no SNGs.

I have mostly been playing the long late registration, large field tournaments (e.g., 4 - 6 hours of late registration with 1,000+ runners), and I am wondering if there may be better alternatives or at least some other good structures with which to supplement my daily sessions. I virtually never late register or buy back in to the tournament if I bust, but I've seen threads that strongly encourage rebuying and adding on (if possible) in these types of tourneys. Am I being too conservative with my single bullet? I certainly run into players that can afford to play much more aggressively because they are willing to fire additional bullets, which puts me at a disadvantage and makes me play tighter; in such long tourneys, however, you can still play tight and lose one huge flip, and then you're screwed.

Although I've been doing alright in the large field tourneys, they take a long time and pay quite well only if you actually place. Therefore, they have a bit of an up-and-down feel when looking at the bankroll from day to day.

I've heard a lot about SNGs as being the best way to grind up a bankroll, but they seem to tend to be turbos, which I am not used to/don't perform well in.

PKOs seem fun, but the few that I've played have crazy players in them, and I don't really know the nuances of how you're supposed to change your play/range to account for bounties.

Also, I see a lot of tournaments for approximately the same buy-in as I am using but for smaller guarantees (e.g., $1.65 with $1,500 GTD is one I play, but there are also $1.65 with $600 GTD). I imagine this is just due to the number of entries and the length of late registration, but I wonder if these have potentially more value than or can mitigate some of the variance from the large field, long late registration tournaments that are currently my go-to.

Of course, there are no wrong answers, and personal preference will come into play--nonetheless, I look forward to your responses and experimenting with some other structures you guys may recommend!

- Sundizzel
 
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fundiver199

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In my opinion the best tournaments for building a bankroll is those with fields from say 30-300 players. Single table SnGs generally carry to much rake to be really profitable, but they are convenient for, when you dont have time for more, and maybe you can still earn a dollar or two. They are also good for practicing ICM, short handed play and push-fold poker. Very large MTTs on the other hand have to much variance and take to long to complete. 4-6 hours of late registration sounds totally insane. Which poker site is that, and how many big blinds is a starting stack, when late registration finally close?
 
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winnie1993

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I would say you should play some sitngo to imporve icm-understanding cuz you often will be at final table. In mtts it will be very usefull. About fields in tournaments: Huge fields give you potentionally nice ev, cuz more chance play final table with fishs, but at the same time dispersion is high as well. You can find not huge fields 100-500 players with deep structure.
 
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nellorossi83

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Every freeroll... play how many you can... withou became it a boring thing
 
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fundiver199

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About fields in tournaments: Huge fields give you potentionally nice ev, cuz more chance play final table with fishs, but at the same time dispersion is high as well. You can find not huge fields 100-500 players with deep structure.

If anything its more difficult for a bad player to reach the final table in a large MTT, because he need to navitage such a large field to get there. In a small MTT it might be enough to get lucky in a few key spots. So if there is any advantage to large MTTs, its probably more, that some people might get "money scared" on the final table, because they are now playing for several times their bankroll.

But the flip side of that is, you will so rarely reach that final table, because you also need to navitage that huge field in order to get there. And if you play large MTTs all the time, this also mean, you get no final table practice. So when you finally get there, chances are, you are the one, who is making rookie mistakes, because you are in a completely unfamiliar situation :)
 
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sundizzel

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4-6 hours of late registration sounds totally insane. Which poker site is that, and how many big blinds is a starting stack, when late registration finally close?


Sorry it took me a minute to get back to you on this, but I needed to actually make it deep enough in one to get the information.

The site is ACR. I played the $2.20 Buy-In with $2,000 GTD that started at 0730 hours. Here were some of the statistics right after late registration ended at 1315 hours:
  • 262 players remain out of an initial field of 915 players. 180 places get paid.
  • The minimum cash is $4, and there is $280 up top.
  • Starting stack at beginning of tournament is 30 BB. Starting stack at last level of late registration is 10 BB.
After going on a bit of a bad streak the previous two weeks, it was nice to cash in this tournament in 80th place for $6.60, as well as a similarly-structured $1.65 Buy-In that I placed 47th for $6.75. That being said, it sounds like I should give tournaments with a similar buy-in but with a smaller field and much smaller guarantees (e.g., $300 GTD) a shot.
 
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fundiver199

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Thats a really strange tournament structure and very unfair to those, who register from the beginning. I would personally either not play this or be one of those, who enter at the very last moment, when 70% of the field is already gone.
 
Alizona

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It's probably not a great strategy, but I'm gonna say it anyway...

...the biggest boost to my bankroll, by far, was that day I decided to take a shot and enter a tournament that awarded a couple of 20+2 tickets, I think it cost me 1.50 (not a very good decision with only a 25 bankroll at the time!), and somehow I won one of those tickets... which I held onto until I found a tournament that had what I deemed to be good value and a good fit for my poker game... and then I made a really deep run and suddenly my measly bankroll was looking much better indeed! I am the first one to admit those ticket tourneys are mostly throwing your money away, they are tough tournaments to cash in... obviously it takes a good bit of luck plus a lot of skill for a story such as this one, but it CAN happen and I am proof!

P.S. For me, the best tournaments to play are the biggest fields because those have the biggest prize pools and therefore offer the "best value" for your buy-in... but you must understand that I consider my biggest poker skill to be my patience. I have success in the large-field events because I feel like I can out-last and "out-patience" the other players. I don't mind if a tournament takes 11 or 12 hours to finish, and whenever I enter a big tournament I know from the very first hand that I'm in it for the long haul. Not everybody has this level of patience to last for so long in a poker tournament, and that gives me a slight advantage over those players who become impatient and make poor decisions at the table.
 
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Lheticus

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I'm starting to lean toward medium size, or maybe normal large fields, say 1,000 to 2,000 players tops. More than that and there just gets to be too many chips in the tournament.

Really, the field size can be however it likes though, but monster fields usually show up in events with extremely long late registration periods. When I have to wait 30 levels just for people to start being actually eliminated, it's a lot harder to go the distance.
 
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sundizzel

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Thats a really strange tournament structure and very unfair to those, who register from the beginning. I would personally either not play this or be one of those, who enter at the very last moment, when 70% of the field is already gone.


I've considered a last minute late registration for these types of tournaments, but, since I don't re-buy, I play them like a long freezeout in the hopes that I can amass a nice enough stack to carry me deep into the money. I only register for two of these each day (one $1.65 and one $2.20), and the rest of my tournaments are all 2-hour late registration or shorter. So it's a bit of a gamble in terms of time invested, but it has the chance to pay off quite nicely. It is disappointing when you bust on the bubble after 6 hours, but I imagine it will be quite worth it if I can make a final table once a month or so.
 
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sundizzel

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...the biggest boost to my bankroll, by far, was that day I decided to take a shot and enter a tournament that awarded a couple of 20+2 tickets


I agree that there is some merit to this strategy. While I have never bought into a satellite to take a shot, I do play the daily OTR freeroll on ACR with 1 ticket guaranteed to the $16.50 with a $50,000 GTD each Saturday. I've won the ticket twice. I busted the big tourney the first time, and I got 15th place the second time for $280, which quadrupled my bankroll lol. My main concern with this type of strategy is that the competition should be a lot better in these much higher buy-ins than I am used to, so I am wary of using an average buy-in for a shot at a bigger tourney that I may be significantly outclassed in. But I won't complain about any big scores xD
 
zwbb

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Experience has shown that a 100 buy-in bankroll best aligns your interests in increasing your income and reducing the risk of bankruptcy. Don't play a tournament if you don't have 100 buy-ins for it.
 
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bonart

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Hi Sundizzel,
It id a good thread you started. I am also in the midst of building my bank roll as have just about to complete my first month.
Learning a lot from your post and the helpful replies.
It is a long slog navigating through the field playing 10 to 12hrs daily.
Won twice and third in my 3 final table sittings so far in freerolls, but hard to get onto the final tables in $1.10 to $3.30 big $1K or $1.5K MTTs on pokerstars.
But 80% of the time in the money make it worth it while gaining experience, but still lack the skill to get on the final table yet in these tournaments.

UK£1,000,000
 
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fundiver199

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...the biggest boost to my bankroll, by far, was that day I decided to take a shot and enter a tournament that awarded a couple of 20+2 tickets, I think it cost me 1.50 (not a very good decision with only a 25 bankroll at the time!), and somehow I won one of those tickets... which I held onto until I found a tournament that had what I deemed to be good value and a good fit for my poker game... and then I made a really deep run and suddenly my measly bankroll was looking much better indeed! I am the first one to admit those ticket tourneys are mostly throwing your money away, they are tough tournaments to cash in... obviously it takes a good bit of luck plus a lot of skill for a story such as this one, but it CAN happen and I am proof!

With 25$ you were not even bankrolled to play 1,5$ tournaments. So what you did was just having fun and gambling, which is fine. If you want to play MTTs, it does not make much sense to talk about a bankroll, before you have at least 300-500$. This is simply because, the selection of event, which you are bankrolled for with less than that, is very small. Some sites like GG Poker dont even have anything below 2,2$ PKOs.

I have always had a negative view about satellites, but I have changed it a bit lately and have actually begun playing some. However if you are serious player, then you dont want to use satellites to increase your bankroll 1.000% in a single go. What you want to use them for is shot taking at tournaments, that are just slightly outside your bankroll or to get in cheaper to tourmanents, which are at the upper limit of your bankroll.

I currently have a balance of around 2.000$ on 888 Poker, and I have satellited into a 55$ PKO, a 44$ PKO, a 33$ "big fish", a 22$ PKO and lately a 16,5$ "big fish", where I have not used my ticket yet. All in all I am down for this, since I have only scored a small cash in the 22$ PKO. But I am down less, than if I had bought in directly to these events, since I have done well in the satellites and certainly seen a positive ROI. So for me satellites is a way to:

a) Take "shots" in small increments like 4,4$ rather than 44$ at a time
b) Fill out time while waiting for regular MTTs to begin
c) Get more variation in my game
d) Sometimes find events with overlays
e) Find edge against soft competition

As for the last point with satellites you give up whatever edge, you might have on the final table. But in return some people have no clue, how to play near the bubble of a satellite. They either fold to much and get blinded away, or they take risks in spots, where they dont have to. Its also a nice aspect of satellites, that there is an upper limit to, how long you are going to be in them. I do however prefer those, where you win a ticket rather than a seat in a particular tournament. It gives more flexibility and allow me to also play at satellite near the end of my session.
 
Adi8877

Adi8877

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Hey sundizz,

I saw you several times on these tourneys. Personally, I built quiet good bankroll, cashed out plenty times from those tourneys. In my opinion, on that site those 1,5-2 $ ones are the best to build a bankroll, but you can't play them without rebuy, it is just not worthy, especially if you play them from the start, you must build stack 10-15 times higher than starting stack until the end of the latee reg... otherwise you simply relegate or reach the ITM and get paid 1-2 buyins, but on all of those tourneys the FT is the min target, if you want to build bankroll, make profit. and i know, it is strange structure - many players dont play it because of that -, strange players, super tight, like you, and super wild, crazy ones, but in the late reg phase, you must mix these two, otherwise,, you cant reach the last few tables, especially not FT.
maybe the playing sat for bigger ones and play there tight reach the money is bettr for you, how you have done with the 50K tourney.

When i build bankroll from freerolls, super micros, under 1 dollar buyin, i dont mix it with sateellites or higher buyin tourney, maybe pick one daily, I think the best the early 1.65$ 10K starting chips, soft and just 3 hours late reg

Otherwise, even from 100-150 bankroll, I play all the 1-2 dollar tourneys, never burnt to the ground simply from those, even I make rebuys, max 2 per tourney..

by the way, the normal play on that site, simply does not work, like on the pokersh>ts works.... you definitely get s*ck from 2-3-4 or more times with 80-20% per tourney, maybe less on turbos, but even there... it is insane and unreal, partly that is why it is good for us, because many players just come and go, as they see what is going on there.....
 
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CSLysander

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I have just started my journey in this on ACR. I have goals and need money, lol. I made 30 cents in a freeroll on morning and saw an 11 cent 4 hr lr that was a freezout. That interested me, as I had never done it. I made another 30 cent cash. I was unable to do anything the next day because my brain was wiped because I started at the beginning, the final person to register waited to the last minute, even with the 300 cap. It was then another hour or so to get to the bubble and I got in another 30 to where I got to. These tournaments are insane.

That said, sounds like you are doing good. It takes work and dedication to do what you are doing. If you want another avenue, past what is on ACR, see how you hand a site like NLOP. No money needed and you can make money via getting their freerolls. The only headache is it can be a pain when some of the regulars that go all in at the drop of a hat start their shenanigans. The site can make a little money for you to transfer over. That said, sounds like you have ACR figured out, so you probably do not need anywhere else.
 
Adi8877

Adi8877

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I have just started my journey in this on ACR. I have goals and need money, lol. I made 30 cents in a freeroll on morning and saw an 11 cent 4 hr lr that was a freezout. That interested me, as I had never done it. I made another 30 cent cash. I was unable to do anything the next day because my brain was wiped because I started at the beginning, the final person to register waited to the last minute, even with the 300 cap. It was then another hour or so to get to the bubble and I got in another 30 to where I got to. These tournaments are insane.

That said, sounds like you are doing good. It takes work and dedication to do what you are doing. If you want another avenue, past what is on ACR, see how you hand a site like NLOP. No money needed and you can make money via getting their freerolls. The only headache is it can be a pain when some of the regulars that go all in at the drop of a hat start their shenanigans. The site can make a little money for you to transfer over. That said, sounds like you have ACR figured out, so you probably do not need anywhere else.




Stop using that goddamn google translator please, it is a headache, it is physically painful, don't talk about that i recognized, they mistranslate given words, expressions by purpose....my english is a piece of crap, too... but I still far better than the very clever guys made crappy program....
 
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sundizzel

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Thanks for the responses, Adi and Lysander.

Hopefully I'll see you in some more tourneys, Adi!

And, Lysander, yeah I'm just sticking to ACR for now because it's going pretty well, and I have tried playing across multiple platforms; however, it was difficult for me with the different programs as they popped on screen when it was my turn to act and what not. Nonetheless, I started my ACR journey just the way you did with a few small cashes--best of luck out there, and hope to see you on the tables!
 
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Wiflopper

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I try to play nightly and pick the format that works best for the amount of time I can play. Cash to sit and gos to mtts they all build my BR in the long run if i make good decisions and variance is low.
 
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caracaski220

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caracaski220

Cardschat feerolls are the best way to start getting a bankroll on several sites. After you have a samall bankroll, keep playing freerolls and small tourneys. I like late registration unless its a bounty tourney. You should deffinetly consider a second or third bullet and addons. Depending on the blind levels and amount of players left. gor instance a 400 guatanteed on intertops with 2 or 3 $ entry, 20 or so players left with payouts up to 6th and even 8th. Rebuy and addons are a nobrainer.
 
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mikyo

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Stop thinking about your bankroll and learn to play. You can always build a couple hundred bucks bankroll, but if you don't dare on the tables beyond the "pokeracademy" -script,
you will not learn and gain confidence in your intuition.
 
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