BelFish
Legend
Loyaler
I would like to make correct push/fold tables for all possible cases. It is clear that this is impossible for a generalized table, but i think that it is possible to create approximately the correct one.
I suppose that you can break all the cases into about 6:
1.) We are very far from the bubble.
2.) The bubble is relatively close, but our stack doesn't allow us to get to it.
3.) The bubble is close, and the stack is such that you won’t understand if you pass or not ))
4.) The bubble is close and we will almost certainly get to it, but with a short stack.
5.) The bubble is close and we'll reach it with a medium to large stack (if it's still a shove/fold).
6.) The bubble has passed.
Perhaps the 1st, 2nd and 3rd cases can be combined into one and averaged.
That is, we consider that there are only 4 cases (conditional): 2nd, 4th, 5th and 6th. And we consider the payout structure to be standard without any special jumps in payouts. In general, for ordinary tournaments (not knockouts and not turbines) with a structure of levels 10 minutes each and about 15% itm.
So we should get 4 tables of 16 matrices (4 by 4) for different positions with an indication in each matrix with which stack to start pushing all hands. Below is a diagram of each of the 4 such tables.
Here is a screenshot with explanations:
Above is a calculation of the Nash balance for push/fold in 10BB stacks for a BB vs SB game.
Below is data taken from an article from one of the poker schools for the same positions, but for stacks of different sizes. With a stack of 10BB from the position of the SB, we push the entire range (all colors, i.e. in fact for the SB there all cells should be green with a stack of 13BB and lower, as indicated in the bottom line of the matrix; this is just for convenience so as not to there was an extra 17th matrix). And from the position of BB we call push from SB on the spectrum, which is represented only by green and blue cells.
And at the very bottom, a diagram of all possible spots is shown, on which the circled 2 cells just represent 2 spots in the form of matrices in the middle of the screenshot.
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So, according to the article from the school, you can definitely make the whole scheme from 16 matrices for all these spots. But from the article it is not very clear for which of the 4 tournament situations that i wrote about above, this table will be most applicable. That is, if we compare the top table from the icm calculator with the second one from the article, then it turns out that we have a huge "reserve" or "icm penalty" here. In the article from which i took tables with icm, it was written that already with numbers 0.20+ it is very profitable to push, because. this gives a big winrate (20+BB/100)
Hand K9o gives 189BB/100!!!, but for some reason it was rejected when compiling the table in the article. Well, a bunch of other profitable hands were "cut off".
It is clear that the article was mainly aimed at beginners, so that they play more accurately, and therefore such a large "reserve" ("icm penalty") was taken.
But still, i want to squeeze more EV out of all situations and play more correctly, and not just tight...
----------------
Is it correct to shove and call wide like in the icm tables (all cells are bright green) in cases when the bubble is far away or when the bubble is close, but our stack does not allow us to hope to hit itm? Or do you still need a "reserve"?
And with a large effective stack, but which is already only suitable for pushing/folding, you may need to play even tighter than according to the table from the middle of the screenshot. Right or not?
And perhaps for the game after the bubble, you also need to make a separate chart for push/fold. Should this chart be even tighter at the final table, or vice versa? It is clear that the chip leader can put pressure on everyone, but probably not as loose as on the bubble.
In general, i would like to hear more opinions and theories on this matter.
I suppose that you can break all the cases into about 6:
1.) We are very far from the bubble.
2.) The bubble is relatively close, but our stack doesn't allow us to get to it.
3.) The bubble is close, and the stack is such that you won’t understand if you pass or not ))
4.) The bubble is close and we will almost certainly get to it, but with a short stack.
5.) The bubble is close and we'll reach it with a medium to large stack (if it's still a shove/fold).
6.) The bubble has passed.
Perhaps the 1st, 2nd and 3rd cases can be combined into one and averaged.
That is, we consider that there are only 4 cases (conditional): 2nd, 4th, 5th and 6th. And we consider the payout structure to be standard without any special jumps in payouts. In general, for ordinary tournaments (not knockouts and not turbines) with a structure of levels 10 minutes each and about 15% itm.
So we should get 4 tables of 16 matrices (4 by 4) for different positions with an indication in each matrix with which stack to start pushing all hands. Below is a diagram of each of the 4 such tables.
Here is a screenshot with explanations:
Above is a calculation of the Nash balance for push/fold in 10BB stacks for a BB vs SB game.
Below is data taken from an article from one of the poker schools for the same positions, but for stacks of different sizes. With a stack of 10BB from the position of the SB, we push the entire range (all colors, i.e. in fact for the SB there all cells should be green with a stack of 13BB and lower, as indicated in the bottom line of the matrix; this is just for convenience so as not to there was an extra 17th matrix). And from the position of BB we call push from SB on the spectrum, which is represented only by green and blue cells.
And at the very bottom, a diagram of all possible spots is shown, on which the circled 2 cells just represent 2 spots in the form of matrices in the middle of the screenshot.
---------------
So, according to the article from the school, you can definitely make the whole scheme from 16 matrices for all these spots. But from the article it is not very clear for which of the 4 tournament situations that i wrote about above, this table will be most applicable. That is, if we compare the top table from the icm calculator with the second one from the article, then it turns out that we have a huge "reserve" or "icm penalty" here. In the article from which i took tables with icm, it was written that already with numbers 0.20+ it is very profitable to push, because. this gives a big winrate (20+BB/100)
Hand K9o gives 189BB/100!!!, but for some reason it was rejected when compiling the table in the article. Well, a bunch of other profitable hands were "cut off".
It is clear that the article was mainly aimed at beginners, so that they play more accurately, and therefore such a large "reserve" ("icm penalty") was taken.
But still, i want to squeeze more EV out of all situations and play more correctly, and not just tight...
----------------
Is it correct to shove and call wide like in the icm tables (all cells are bright green) in cases when the bubble is far away or when the bubble is close, but our stack does not allow us to hope to hit itm? Or do you still need a "reserve"?
And with a large effective stack, but which is already only suitable for pushing/folding, you may need to play even tighter than according to the table from the middle of the screenshot. Right or not?
And perhaps for the game after the bubble, you also need to make a separate chart for push/fold. Should this chart be even tighter at the final table, or vice versa? It is clear that the chip leader can put pressure on everyone, but probably not as loose as on the bubble.
In general, i would like to hear more opinions and theories on this matter.
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