Playing TT Against a Flop Shove

vox1er

vox1er

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Tournament,late stage

Hero is the big stack with 170k,
Villain is new to the table and 2nd biggest stack with 100k
Blinds are 2k/4k.
EP limp, V in CO raises to 16k, H on button calls with TT.
Flop: QQ4 rainbow
Villain shoves 84k into 42k pot, H tank-folds.

I am wondering whether this should be a call without a read or if the fold is good given no other info.
 
0546474

0546474

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I don’t know how correct this is, but in this situation I would have thrown out this hand !!! you still have a lot of chips and you can still continue fighting for the first place of the ambassador after you throw this hand out !!!!
 
jadaminato

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I may be wrong, but I don't think the villain would have played that way if he had the nuts, it makes no sense, with a trio of queens (or a poker) he could have played slow play and take all your chips. I think it was a bluff, or maybe I had connected the 4, but I doubt it.
 
Boston10111

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Wasn’t a bad fold since you didn’t have much info.
I would say you are allowed to call in the situation as lots of shoves I’ve seen like this involve a pocket pair or hitting the four, meaning shoving is to keep you from hitting the board by folding.

The only combos that beat you would be any Qx cards though not as likely since there’s two on the board, and a higher pocket pair. You’re in good position and have a chance to hit a full house if they are shoving with QX or another pocket pair that’s higher.

Either move I think is fine but I think I would more likely call in this situation as someone that hits trips usually slow plays it more
 
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fundiver199

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I agree with the others, that this does smell like a "protection bet" from a pocket pair or a wild bluff, because why would anyone play so fast, if they actually had trips or a boat. But that being said folding cant be a mistake. You would be risking more than half your stack, and he could be "protection betting" JJ, in which case you have egg all over your face.
 
Bluffzone68

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Hey
If folded a good fold.
If called a good call.

The point is from the flop it is anyone's game.

I would have folded or recommended a fold here.
 
fishfood80

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Tournament,late stage

Hero is the big stack with 170k,
Villain is new to the table and 2nd biggest stack with 100k
Blinds are 2k/4k.
EP limp, V in CO raises to 16k, H on button calls with TT.
Flop: QQ4 rainbow
Villain shoves 84k into 42k pot, H tank-folds.

I am wondering whether this should be a call without a read or if the fold is good given no other info.
I think it's a good fold imo. A GTO approach would probably be to call in that spot with no relevant info on villain. But the overshove seems really strong to me. Just wait for a better spot.
 
eurosTotnd

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I think it's a call , villain can have some middle pocket pairs 77 66 or 88 , he can also have AS X suited , specially as 4 suited , even if we loose this we have enough stack to fight back
 
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yoejslattery

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What was the buy in for the tourney?

My thought is how did the villian amass his chips? we don't know but maybe it is from playing like this and people calling his overshoves.

I think a fold is called for here as if he is doing it with air there will be better spots.
 
theANMATOR

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Yes - agree with voejslattery above. Without additional information on the villain, seeing how he plays - I'd ANGRILY fold this. :mad:

At micro stakes - Villains OFTEN shove on this type of flop when holding a Queen. They also make this shove holding any pocket pair, including 4s and any other pocket pair.

Their are 19 combination of pocket pairs you are loosing to not including ANY Q.
That is a lot of combinations villain could have, but he could also have over triple that number of combinations of pocket pairs that you are crushing.

How'd you fair in the event? I'd be interested in reading about how Villain played after this hand. What tendencies did you pick up on?
 
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Alex70793

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And rightly so, that folded, the enemy could easily be Queen or pocket pair, JJ, KK, AA, in any case, this is not a hand where you have to risk chipleaders stack.
 
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