I was playing in a cardschat freeroll yesterday when the following happened. UTG+1 (~40BB which is a good stack) limped and everybody else folded and it comes to me in the small blind, I look down at K10o with 15BB. I decide to jam on the basis I can increase my stack by ~20% , BB is playing very tight despite being short stacked and I figure I'm good against the UTG+1 limping range.

BB does fold, but UTG+1 calls with AQo and wins the hand as expected.

I don't know whether or not my play was right , but I did make an error not accounting for the fact that UTG+1 may also have very strong hands in their range because many players are getting short stacked and they can profitably call a jam instead of just taking the blinds. We are in the stage where several of players on the table are in push/fold mode.

In order to calculate this (and what hands I should jam with) I'd need to be able to construct a range working out what sort of hands could be included in this range ,assuming we have no history of this player.

What should I expect the early position limper to have in this situation ? just premium hands they want to call with, a polarised mixture or something different?

Originally Posted by Oxinthewater

I was playing in a cardschat freeroll yesterday when the following happened. UTG+1 (~40BB which is a good stack) limped and everybody else folded and it comes to me in the small blind, I look down at K10o with 15BB. I decide to jam on the basis I can increase my stack by ~20% , BB is playing very tight despite being short stacked and I figure I'm good against the UTG+1 limping range.

BB does fold, but UTG+1 calls with AQo and wins the hand as expected.

I don't know whether or not my play was right , but I did make an error not accounting for the fact that UTG+1 may also have very strong hands in their range because many players are getting short stacked and they can profitably call a jam instead of just taking the blinds. We are in the stage where several of players on the table are in push/fold mode.

In order to calculate this (and what hands I should jam with) I'd need to be able to construct a range working out what sort of hands could be included in this range ,assuming we have no history of this player.

What should I expect the early position limper to have in this situation ? just premium hands they want to call with, a polarised mixture or something different?

Thank U 4 Posting

While it is true that we do not have a history with this player it does not mean we do not have information for which to guide our actions.

In this spot we have freeroll player pool data which includes- positional range tendency data and fold frequency data.

You did not mention it in your post but from the fact that everyone else folded to a limp it would suggest you are now past the gamble with anything stage of these freeroll tournaments. The behavior of your table in the last 5-10 hands should let you know that that mindset shift has occurred. We then have to shift our range analysis based on that new mindset. Our V may have changed to a trap style of play because of it.
Another possibility is, that there was a raise any 2 cards type player on the table and the UTG1 player was targeting them. When we see that dynamic on a table early limps become very premium loaded.

These factors allow us to include more premium trap hands in V ranges.


Hope this helps

With 15bb you aren't in desperation mode, and KT is a good hand to take a flop with. I totally understand the intent, but jamming into someone who has you covered after they've entered the pot is always a big risk. At least you were live though, so it wasn't the worst thing in the world.

Originally Posted by eetenor

Thank U 4 Posting

While it is true that we do not have a history with this player it does not mean we do not have information for which to guide our actions.

In this spot we have freeroll player pool data which includes- positional range tendency data and fold frequency data.

You did not mention it in your post but from the fact that everyone else folded to a limp it would suggest you are now past the gamble with anything stage of these freeroll tournaments. The behavior of your table in the last 5-10 hands should let you know that that mindset shift has occurred. We then have to shift our range analysis based on that new mindset. Our V may have changed to a trap style of play because of it.
Another possibility is, that there was a raise any 2 cards type player on the table and the UTG1 player was targeting them. When we see that dynamic on a table early limps become very premium loaded.

These factors allow us to include more premium trap hands in V ranges.


Hope this helps

What did you mean by the bolded bit? is there some public pool of data I don't know about?

On the latter point , what you say makes sense and I think the main issue here is that I didn't make enough allowance for the changing circumstances. The move is one that I've played myself in those circumstances, so the key really is to put myself in V's shoes better.

In general, if you have a good chip lim with an early position, you can easily give a shortstack all-in in a pair with a much worse hand than A, Q. The fact that you are currently braking your card cannot be calculated. In such a situation, however, K, 10o is not such a bad card.

With 10BB this would be a good decision. However with 15BB I would just raise by 4BB and try to Play it on flop. But it's a matter of style, table feel, if you have respect of the table etc.

Originally Posted by Oxinthewater

What did you mean by the bolded bit? is there some public pool of data I don't know about?

On the latter point , what you say makes sense and I think the main issue here is that I didn't make enough allowance for the changing circumstances. The move is one that I've played myself in those circumstances, so the key really is to put myself in V's shoes better.

Thank U 4 Responding

The public pool of data is here on cardschat but is in many different posts. One advantage we have being part of this forum is we can get data from our fellow players when they mention player tendencies in their posts. Whenever you read a hand analysis post for instance and a strong contributing member makes a statement like the majority of freeroll players do x at x stage of the tournament we benefit by taking notes on those tendencies and then confirm them when we play.

That is how we build a player pool diary on the stakes we play. We then can learn what to expect without having to experience it ourselves.

It takes some work to gather the data but far less time and effort and money then having to discover it for ourselves.

Hope this helps