Online Timing Tells

[puntr]

I was Recently playing a $12.90 bounty hunters (6-max) tournament when I found myself in an insane cooler and want to know if maybe I could have got away from it due to a timing tell.

Action folded to the cut off who opened to 10,000 (2bb)

it folded to me in the BB and I 3-bet with KhKc to 35,250(7bb)

after my raise the opponent in the cut off snap jammed for 345,296 (69BB)(I mean instantly like not even half a second)

and of course I just have to call right? there is no way of getting away from my hand? or was the insta-jam a tell? I also covered him for a 25.22$ bounty and there was no significant pay jumps.

What are your thoughts???

 

[Andyreas]

Let me guess, you ran into the Aces?

 

[Maximum]

Are you joking bro?

 

[Luvepoker]

I would not consider this a timing tell that would be a lock to think it was. Yes you could have and should have thought about the posability this could be a tell but I have see to many players just doing this with many hands. Pocket queens alot. Now could you get away from the hand? Possably but you really have to know the player and know they would only do this with a monster.

 

[puntr]

I would not consider this a timing tell that would be a lock to think it was. Yes you could have and should have thought about the posability this could be a tell but I have see to many players just doing this with many hands. Pocket queens alot. Now could you get away from the hand? Possably but you really have to know the player and know they would only do this with a monster.

Thanks, and he did have queens LOL. I usually play live so I thought I would ask.

 

[kon44]

Nose bleed messy haha, those insta snap backs are harrowing. Has the same thing with JJ earlier and let em slide. With KK it’s hard not forbidden you to call, like @Luvepoker says above, villain can be doing that with a range of hands that you dominate and if it’s AA your facing...ouch.... cooler. Myself I’d most probably not have 3Bet if it was going heads up into the flop. Would open up more opportunity to stack him if the flops favourable (though that’s possibly more to my playing go style lol). However you are the one at the table with an insight to the player your up against, you made the right decision based off of all things considered at the time. The timings you talk of Ian more to the individual, some players take time no matter what their holding, others insta everything.... What you need to watch for is when they do something uncharacteristic to their norm, something which you’ll only pick up after mingling with them. So in that instance there are timing tells, but I’d consider it I’ll advised to make any kind of ball park assumptions without considering each individual just that lol... Wether that be just that table for the first occasion or over a longer period where you’ll likely have notes etc.

B

 

[AlphaCentauro]

I’m against all in preflop… gambling with any hand. If you feel like gambling, who cares how long it took him to jam, you are gambling yeeeeeeeeha 🔫🤠

 

[fundiver199]

No I dont think, its a timing tell. He could have AA, but its just as likely, he had some other hand and had just made up his mind in advance, that he would jam over a 3-bet. If you want to go down that rabbit hole, it can actually be argued, there was a sizing tell. If I have AA with 69 BB effective and face a 7 BB 3-bet, I will typically make a small 4-bet to maybe 15-20 BB to get more action. So for me his all-in sizing is actually a sign of a hand like AK, which dont mind a fold. At the end of the day KK vs. AA for < 100 BB with only two players involved, and a late position confrontation, is just a standard cooler. Everybody goes broke with KK here, unless of course they bink a suck-out

 

[steve01991]

ah, the games we play, to me its not a tell if the player is a known to shove a lot, many hands to shove to convince you he has the goods. i would always call with kk.

 

[ObbleeXY]

I'd avoid relying on a timing tell without ample evidence to support it as a real tell. Online timing is too easy to fake...and some folks get married to their hands and have made a decision no matter what yours is. I fake timing tells in my home games sometimes as a way to encourage the fold. (I'm pretty sure they think they've read it as an AA type tell... I sometimes do it in my LIVE home games too...to the same effect.

I wartched a Doug Polk video very recently about folding KK. Theses were all instances where people folded KK and Doug reviews whether he thinks it was a good fold or not, and what the result actually was. (And you can play along as you don't know the outcome immediately).

Here is the link: Should You Ever Fold Kings Pre-Flop? -- Doug Polk Video (You don't have to like him to learn from him!)

For me, the biggest thing is the type of game I'm playing. the higher the stakes, the more likely I am to be more thoughtful about pre-flop folding of premium made hands. I tend to rely on a lot of intel, so early game, I'm not playing much...just figuring out what types of players I'm up against. (I'm still up for a shove or a call early on, provided there are rebuys available)... I'd tend to play those KK almost every time early game...but later on...if the intel was building up...

But in general, folding KK is a rarity for me. I've only done it a few times and every time was EITHER around the bubble with a healthy chip stack or when there are already a bunch of folks shoving into a pot on a final table -- so I might fold there in order to guarantee a ladder up.

What I would say though, with KK...you're more likely to have fewer losses if you see a flop before shoving KK. No mater the hand, pre-flop shoving is a bit gambly and isn't really playing poker to extract maximum value.

I often think people are so focussed on aggression in poker, that they forget that the real name of the game is getting better value per hand than your opponents. Pre-flop shoves, too often, result in getting blinds only, or -- in the smaller stakes -- multiway shoved pots...and you do not want to be there very often. The real question here is -- are you able to be better at playing KK than the rest of people? To do so, you MUST have at least some situations where you are willing to fold almost any hand.

I maintain that folding is the most important skill in poker...and it is one that I've not yet mastered however...but I'm working on it!

All the best.
Cheers,
JT

 

[kon44]

I'd avoid relying on a timing tell without ample evidence to support it as a real tell. Online timing is too easy to fake...and some folks get married to their hands and have made a decision no matter what yours is. I fake timing tells in my home games sometimes as a way to encourage the fold. (I'm pretty sure they think they've read it as an AA type tell... I sometimes do it in my LIVE home games too...to the same effect.

I wartched a Doug Polk video very recently about folding KK. Theses were all instances where people folded KK and Doug reviews whether he thinks it was a good fold or not, and what the result actually was. (And you can play along as you don't know the outcome immediately).

Here is the link: Should You Ever Fold Kings Pre-Flop? -- Doug Polk Video (You don't have to like him to learn from him!)

For me, the biggest thing is the type of game I'm playing. the higher the stakes, the more likely I am to be more thoughtful about pre-flop folding of premium made hands. I tend to rely on a lot of intel, so early game, I'm not playing much...just figuring out what types of players I'm up against. (I'm still up for a shove or a call early on, provided there are rebuys available)... I'd tend to play those KK almost every time early game...but later on...if the intel was building up...

But in general, folding KK is a rarity for me. I've only done it a few times and every time was EITHER around the bubble with a healthy chip stack or when there are already a bunch of folks shoving into a pot on a final table -- so I might fold there in order to guarantee a ladder up.

What I would say though, with KK...you're more likely to have fewer losses if you see a flop before shoving KK. No mater the hand, pre-flop shoving is a bit gambly and isn't really playing poker to extract maximum value.

I often think people are so focussed on aggression in poker, that they forget that the real name of the game is getting better value per hand than your opponents. Pre-flop shoves, too often, result in getting blinds only, or -- in the smaller stakes -- multiway shoved pots...and you do not want to be there very often. The real question here is -- are you able to be better at playing KK than the rest of people? To do so, you MUST have at least some situations where you are willing to fold almost any hand.

I maintain that folding is the most important skill in poker...and it is one that I've not yet mastered however...but I'm working on it!

All the best.
Cheers,
JT

JT you don’t have to master nowt, the fact your open to the concept that letting them go it equally necessary your forever evolving and adapting to the rollercoaster variance that playing poker is. Amongst the best posts of expressed ethos I’ve read in a while fella. All the best to you too 👌

 

[Recreationalplayer]

It is very difficult and subjective to pick up on timing tells when playing online, especially on multiple tables.

I won't read too much into it unless your observation on timing tell of opponent is very good.

 

[Lena M]

Hi
My point is quite simple. In tournaments of this format, you either get lucky or you don't. The signs that you described regarding the use of time do not actually indicate anything.