Knowing you're beat, but calling anyway?

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screamingmidget

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Overall, I'm a decent player, know the pot odds, implied odds, my own starting hand guide (changes slightly, depending on the opposition), etc, but this seems to be a slight weakness that I have, when I'm becoming irritated against poor players.

9 times out of 10, if I have a gut instinct, that my hand is beat, I am. Yet I'll still sometimes call, and go against it, due to being impatient of not getting any decent hands/flops.

A rough example would be when someone bets most of their stick when a King comes down on the River - I also have a K, but a lower kicker, and just know they also have a K, at least (maybe even 2 pair), and a higher kicker - yet I'll sometimes call it anyway - get beat, and knocked out of the single table tournament in 4th place (top 3 finish).
Are any in the same boat? They pretty much KNOW they are beat, but think, "Hmm... just on the off chance I'm wrong, I'll go with it" - and lose.

Don't get me wrong, it's not that frequent, but I go out and then think to myself, "You know you shouldn't have called them, so only yourself to blame".
 
TheDude6622

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So they can bet most of their stack on the flop or turn and try to drag you in on the river with a quarter or less of they're stack. You could have a huge chip advantage, but if you know you're beat, why put in more chips to just have them show you that they beat you. It's sometimes means they're just trying to extract that extra amount. It's up to you to discipline yourself to not give that extra chunk away.
 
Gaviria8

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If you're beaten and you can't fold, you aren't a decent player...
 
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jumboscampi

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This is one of my strategies

I will bluff, and hope they see that I was so that they aren't so sure the next time!!
 
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screamingmidget

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If you're beaten and you can't fold, you aren't a decent player...

Thanks troll. Is there a block option on here?


So they can bet most of their stack on the flop or turn and try to drag you in on the river with a quarter or less of they're stack. You could have a huge chip advantage, but if you know you're beat, why put in more chips to just have them show you that they beat you. It's sometimes means they're just trying to extract that extra amount. It's up to you to discipline yourself to not give that extra chunk away.

A normal reply, so thanks.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I know it's up to me, just asking whether others have been in the same position and learned to discipline themselves better.

I find I don't do it when I'm refreshed and more with it. I am discplined then and surprise surprise I do better. Maybe I'm playing a bit too much.
 
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jumboscampi

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But,

It ends up working while your in the game with the person you did it with, and the other players involved in the hand perhaps.


I find it works well at times.


The problem there is you rarely meet the same player twice.
 
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screamingmidget

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If you know you are beat fold simple answer.:):):)

It's when I have that tiny bit of doubt that I have a small chance.

I'm guessing gut instincts count for a lot in Poker.
 
TheDude6622

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Thanks troll. Is there a block option on here?




A normal reply, so thanks.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I know it's up to me, just asking whether others have been in the same position and learned to discipline themselves better.

I find I don't do it when I'm refreshed and more with it. I am discplined then and surprise surprise I do better. Maybe I'm playing a bit too much.

Knowing that you need to play with a fresh mind takes a strong person. There are players that play 20-30 hours straight and still don't want to stop.

For me, I have been in that position many times. In the beginning, of course I would call and say eh, it's only a little bit more, and lose of course. Over time, I would be able to read the situation much better and be able to make the correct fold. Being able to read the player and their tendencies is very key in making the correct decision, disregarding they're stack size from time to time. Keep playing your game and make sure you feel you're refreshed. If you feel like you are not on your A game, take a break. Meditate. Rejuvenate yourself. Then go back to the tables and get 'em!
 
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screamingmidget

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Knowing that you need to play with a fresh mind takes a strong person. There are players that play 20-30 hours straight and still don't want to stop.

For me, I have been in that position many times. In the beginning, of course I would call and say eh, it's only a little bit more, and lose of course. Over time, I would be able to read the situation much better and be able to make the correct fold. Being able to read the player and their tendencies is very key in making the correct decision, disregarding they're stack size from time to time. Keep playing your game and make sure you feel you're refreshed. If you feel like you are not on your A game, take a break. Meditate. Rejuvenate yourself. Then go back to the tables and get 'em!

Great post, thanks.
 
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Is good that you recognize yourself, that is good step to improve.
I have the same intuition, I fold most of the time when I know I'm beat. Sometimes you really want to see it! so i might call, but never for my tournament live.
 
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What about when your ahead in the flop and you know he will catch up at the river being that your playing online . so you decide to go all in with 7d8d the flop is 7h 8c jc. The turn is jh. Kd . he calls with Kh9h.pisses me off lol . IF I slow play i win the hand but i win so little worth of pot. Rig or what?
 
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Is good that you recognize yourself, that is good step to improve.
I have the same intuition, I fold most of the time when I know I'm beat. Sometimes you really want to see it! so i might call, but never for my tournament live.

Yeah, I tend to play tournaments (STT), and I think I do it more when I have fewer chips, kind of like annoyed that I've had no decent hands and no flops, so I think "Sod it, and go all-in / call), knowing they have me beat. I do sometimes do it mid-game, but not as often.
 
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What about when your ahead in the flop and you know he will catch up at the river being that your playing online . so you decide to go all in with 7d8d the flop is 7h 8c jc. The turn is jh. Kd . he calls with Kh9h.pisses me off lol . IF I slow play i win the hand but i win so little worth of pot. Rig or what?

Yeah that's not a good one, but that's different as there I would know he was lucky. That I can take, as the luck went against me.

Talking of luck - nothing worse than an opponent who think he did well yet he either got lucky or called the incorrect pot odds.

Say 2 club cards come down on the Flop and I have 2-pair.. I'll put down enough to take the odds away from the opponent who may have a flush draw and make it bad odds to call - he calls, holds a pair of clubs, a club comes down on the turn/river and gets his nut flush.

Sure, he won, but it was a bad call from him - he should have folded. He then think he's great, but he got lucky. That's the problem with facing weaker players - that never comes into their head. All they think is, "I want that flush whatever it takes!"

In tournaments that can sometimes be enough to knock you out.
 
COMIRRR

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If I know that I have a weaker hand than the opponent I do not give him the satisfaction of paying him unless the stake is small and it does not affect me so much and this only to see what his hand has and what strategy he had.
 
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screamingmidget

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If I know that I have a weaker hand than the opponent I do not give him the satisfaction of paying him unless the stake is small and it does not affect me so much and this only to see what his hand has and what strategy he had.

That was my point though - it's always a gut feeling that I have a weaker hand. Not knowing for certain sure.

If I KNOW, then I of course fold.
 
tw082

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I call it the "what if" syndrome, bad runs and overly aggressive players seem to flare-up the symptoms. Also doesn't help it works every once and awhile but not nearly enough to excuse the act.:stupid:
 
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screamingmidget

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I call it the "what if" syndrome, bad runs and overly aggressive players seem to inflame the symptoms. Also doesn't help it works every once and awhile but not nearly enough to excuse the act.:stupid:

Spot on.

It does seem to happen when I've been playing for a few hours and tiredness kicks in, resulting in more losses which then makes that happen.

A part of me sometimes thinks, "I've put so many chips in, and don't have many left, so sod it".

This is only in tournament play though, often when I've had no hands and no flops with scraping the barrel type hands, and I get frustrated.

With cash games it's different, because I know I can take my time, but the online tournaments I play are very quick - within 10 minutes the blinds are up to like a 5th of the entire buy-in, so unless you win a hand early doors, you're on low chips.
 
tw082

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What about when your ahead in the flop and you know he will catch up at the river being that your playing online . so you decide to go all in with 7d8d the flop is 7h 8c jc. The turn is jh. Kd . he calls with Kh9h.pisses me off lol . IF I slow play i win the hand but i win so little worth of pot. Rig or what?
I'm confused why would u win if slow play? Otherwise i don't have an answer other than we need sites with realistic hands. b/c 90% of my losses are to suck outs on the river losing with my 80% favorite. Idk how anyone can navigate through these pre-determined losses on hands any good player would play (and win roughly 80% of them if it were live) and come out with consistent wins. Blind donk calls are rewarded too much and frustrates me to tilt also hurting my win chances even more.
 
tw082

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Spot on.

It does seem to happen when I've been playing for a few hours and tiredness kicks in, resulting in more losses which then makes that happen.

A part of me sometimes thinks, "I've put so many chips in, and don't have many left, so sod it".

This is only in tournament play though, often when I've had no hands and no flops with scraping the barrel type hands, and I get frustrated.

With cash games it's different, because I know I can take my time, but the online tournaments I play are very quick - within 10 minutes the blinds are up to like a 5th of the entire buy-in, so unless you win a hand early doors, you're on low chips.
Yea it's usually with players I have folded to in past even though i didnt think they had but not worth the risk to call. Regarding blinds this is why i hate turbo's i try to avoid them as much as possible. When blind levels are so short it's too much luck involved if you dont have hot hand early most of the time you are up a creek and no paddle.
 
tw082

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Yeah that's not a good one, but that's different as there I would know he was lucky. That I can take, as the luck went against me.

Talking of luck - nothing worse than an opponent who think he did well yet he either got lucky or called the incorrect pot odds.

Say 2 club cards come down on the Flop and I have 2-pair.. I'll put down enough to take the odds away from the opponent who may have a flush draw and make it bad odds to call - he calls, holds a pair of clubs, a club comes down on the turn/river and gets his nut flush.

Sure, he won, but it was a bad call from him - he should have folded. He then think he's great, but he got lucky. That's the problem with facing weaker players - that never comes into their head. All they think is, "I want that flush whatever it takes!"

In tournaments that can sometimes be enough to knock you out.
My only beef is live play hitting a long shot is great call, but online it's donk call. I've been what i'd call actual poker player for short time but where i am from if it hits it's a good call. If you do it often it will take care of itself.
 
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Yea it's usually with players I have folded to in past even though i didnt think they had but not worth the risk to call. Regarding blinds this is why i hate turbo's i try to avoid them as much as possible. When blind levels are so short it's too much luck involved if you dont have hot hand early most of the time you are up a creek and no paddle.

Yeah I think the format I play probably rewards aggressive players more. If they go out, they just move into another tournament.

With me, I like to do the maths in my head - that's part of the fun and really, if you know the best starting hands, know pot/implied odds you should win more than you lose - I guess I know what I need to do to improve - trust my gut instincts as I know 9 times out of 10 it's correct.

Which I guess brings onto reading the player. If I have a poor hand I find myself doing other things whilst the hand is playing out - checking email, getting a drink etc. Offline, I can spend more time reading the player as there's not as many things to distract me.
 
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