How to protect yourself against stalkers?

[kelvin22]

Not been around here long, and today was the first shot i got in the daily freeroll with a little over 200 players. Got busted out by KK nonetheless, but it was kinda' weird (for me at least), and i can't say it was one of may best plays. Can't seem to upload the hand on boom, so i'll post a few photos. BB calls a mid-pos 2bet raise... so... keep that in mind.

Was i wrong to go allin?... maybe. Still... who plays KK like that? I'd like to understand the reasoning behind the play and pick your brain for different opinions. Eva... your welcome to join. I've stalked many times as well, but never pre-flop.

So... is the hero to be considered a stalker? If yes... how would you protect yourself in this case? (except the obvious answer "don't go allin moron!")

 

[Gaviria8]

You didn't post anything, fix your post so we can answer!

 

[AMTTT]

player with KK thus provoked K9 all-in, and won, it happens not infrequently, when weak cards do not fully understand that they do not so much look with a pair on the flop

 

[acemenow]

To start with pushing all in with a single pair is bit manic without any real frame of reference for where you are in in the tourney, what potential reads you have and how deep in are you in the tourney?

Looking at the stack sizes indicates its early in the tourney if that is the case I would question why you are pushing all in with a high pair. I'm just a fish so take it with a grain of salt, but i'd say you over played your high card pair. When you shoved you had 3 plyrs in the hand with a wet board. So did you really believe all 3 were bluffing? Someone holding Axs is likely to call that as well as someone with a made hand imo. I think shoving this early (assuming you are early in the tourney ) with a hand like that is dubious at best.

AS for the KK not protecting his Pair pre and post flop he got lucky you weren't holding trips or two pair imo. and may have put you on a flush draw. just my take on what info was shared ...

 

[playinggameswithu]

He suckered someone in bet you pre flop....the bet has no intention of pushing anyone out that wasn't going out anyways. Those bets are met with suspicion from me I personally just raise 2.5x to 3x.

 

[jbear54321]

I prefer to make a $300 bet there to see if the other player calls or raises. A raise usually indicates that they're not afraid of the top possible pair.

Some people try to slow play KK or AA. It usually backfires.

 

[kelvin22]

To start with pushing all in with a single pair is bit manic without any real frame of reference for where you are in in the tourney, what potential reads you have and how deep in are you in the tourney?

Man... that's the entire purpose of the question. There are no reads.
Mid-pos raises 2bet, i call, BB calls, then starts betting on the flop (1bb). 2'nd and 3'rd player call.
I'm thinking possible Ax, flush draw or straight draw. Blinds are 25/50... barely begun.

The play was slow pre-flop. BB starts with a blocking raise, and everybody calls.
My logic... BB hit either a flush draw or a straight draw, and wants to see the turn. One of the other 2 is definitely calling with Ax (maybe both) or just overcards. Being the last to "speak", i hit top pair. I got 2 options there. Fold and let them fight, or push. Calling is not an option, because i can't risk letting them see the turn.
Nothing whatsoever indicates a premium hand. The mid-pos who raised pre-flop... just calls.
Furthermore it was played 4way. Me, in BB with KK, i would think "gotta protect my hand", so there is no way they get to see the flop without at least another 3/4bb's.
...fine, i made a mistake and they got to see the flop cheap... but i'm still holding KK's. That raise would be at least 70% of the pot, because it don't like the flop.
What's the point of having KK in BB if i'm just gonna let everyone play their crap. Or i'm just to assume "no worry man, KK's are winners all the way"... because i tried that more than once, and 99% of the times it backfired like hell.

However, the question of the topic is not about my play. For what it's worth, i stand by it, and would do it again.
The question was "is the BB to be considered a stalker?", how to protect yourself in situations like this? in an attempt to avoid them in the future.

 

[AMTTT]

how to protect yourself in situations like this? in an attempt to avoid them in the future.

do not go all-in, so you can protect a lot of hands

 

[kelvin22]

do not go all-in, so you can protect a lot of hands

Which would probably lead to, loosing more often than if i do...
Would you say the (overall) KK play was a good one?
Do you recommend it to other players who might read this topic?
How would you have played the K9 in that exact same situation?

 

[krezip]

Pushing all-in you're only getting called with better hands so yes you were wrong.

 

[Reload]

You're wrong about stalking, i love the way that Eva played, but it's like you said : it's not expected. I came 2nd on that freeroll

 

[RocwX]

Eva played KK in a unconventional way, but it's ok to mix the way you play so you don't become too predictable. It could very well backfire, but not only did it work but they managed to double their original stack. I understand that it can be frustrating, but everyone has the right to play their hands the way they want. If people played every hand the same way, poker would become a game of pure luck.

 

[terryk]

You got trapped,,,,it happens,,,,get over it.Well played Eva!

 

[gryphon3005]

I'm not sure I would use the word stalker. It's very early in the tournament, stacks are small, and you're still getting to know the other players. Betting big with KK doesn't make sense here because if they all fold you were gambling most of your stack for a somewhat small profit. And, if someone has picked up a straight draw and calls you just might find yourself in trouble. As for "protecting" yourself, Kelvin, you simply made the mistake of deciding no one could have a hand better that K9 and then gambling your tournament life on your assessment. The were several possible better hands out there. For example a player with 44 would not bet big pre-flop and would most likely keep the betting small on the flop in the hope of getting some callers to build the pot.

 

[kelvin22]

You got trapped,,,,it happens,,,,get over it.Well played Eva!

I dont't understand why it always boils down to "get over it", since i don't mind that i got busted, and like i said, i would do it again (the intention was semi-bluff/steal, and i had the position for such a play). It was one freeroll, one hand, many more to come... plus, i had way worse suckouts than that (and that wasn't even a suckout... just somewhat of a bad play).
My goal is to understand the reasoning behind the KK play.
But... like you said "i got trapped"... Would that make Eva the "trapper"? Was it an intentional play? or just a moment's decision. I agree, we can't always play the same way, so we don't become predictable. But there is a big difference between (potentially) digging your own hole, and actually knowing you dug it for someone else.

 

[kelvin22]

I'm not sure I would use the word stalker. It's very early in the tournament, stacks are small, and you're still getting to know the other players. Betting big with KK doesn't make sense here because if they all fold you were gambling most of your stack for a somewhat small profit. And, if someone has picked up a straight draw and calls you just might find yourself in trouble. As for "protecting" yourself, Kelvin, you simply made the mistake of deciding no one could have a hand better that K9 and then gambling your tournament life on your assessment. The were several possible better hands out there. For example a player with 44 would not bet big pre-flop and would most likely keep the betting small on the flop in the hope of getting some callers to build the pot.

In my experience, there is always a (potentially) better hand out there. If we were to take that assumption into consideration all the time, we might as well give up poker alltogether.
33/55... never calls that allin, unless he/she has a "death wish", or is 100% confident they will hold. The point is, i pushed based on pre-flop play and because my position and the top pair (so i thought) increased my chances. I swear to God, if it were me holding the KK's, another 9 would have popped out, if not the turn... the river for sure, just so the "game" could spit in my face "shove ur KK's up ur ass".

 

[terryk]

Why the labels? Why does it make them "trappers",,,,it's 1 hand,like you say. Your first mistake was playing K9,,,,then you overplayed Top pair,pretty standard stuff. GL moving forward,,,

 

[lokinet]

I dont't understand why it always boils down to "get over it", since i don't mind that i got busted, and like i said, i would do it again (the intention was semi-bluff/steal, and i had the position for such a play). It was one freeroll, one hand, many more to come... plus, i had way worse suckouts than that (and that wasn't even a suckout... just somewhat of a bad play).
My goal is to understand the reasoning behind the KK play.
But... like you said "i got trapped"... Would that make Eva the "trapper"? Was it an intentional play? or just a moment's decision. I agree, we can't always play the same way, so we don't become predictable. But there is a big difference between (potentially) digging your own hole, and actually knowing you dug it for someone else.

there were in my view a some mistakes made

eva
- played a bit to passive (ofcource to changeit up it important if he playes the hand always the same
- he got luckey that he didnt ran in some draws or trips

you
- you can bet high with an top pair but please do it with an high top pair (to much hands which defeat you without even hitting the board and they might slowplay at the start
- place a high bet so that you can get information (half the stack if he raises xou know you are defeated
- for me there are no just freerolls of course it doesnt hurt you if you loose but bad behaviouryou learn at freerolls will slightly adapted in the real games -> i always play as if it would be my money and try to do my best

 

[Joco413]

It's a freeroll. Not sure why you expect people to play like if it wasn't.

It's a common strategy in freerolls to lay low with premium hands because it is highly likely that someone else is going to raise from a BB up to All-In.

Even if it wasn't a freeroll people could use this strategy especially against aggressive players.

That being said you didn't do much wrong here. There are different ways to approach freerolls. Playing a hand like K9 is alright even if someone above said otherwise. At flop you thought you had the best hand at the table so going all-in to make 10+ cards or lower pairs fold is a good play.

Fortunately there are plenty of freerolls to pick and play so better luck next time.

 

[FernandPoker]

I'm still a beginner, but I don't see any reason to go all-in here. You will only get called by better hands. I would have raised 2x, and see what he would do. You almost didn't have any information about his hand, so it was way too risky IMO.

 

[Flight777sem]

You got trapped and that happens sometimes nothing to di. Maybe your show is unnecessary but I don’t think you played it so wrong , i mean flushy board and straight draw out there you wouldn’t fold even if they show on you.

 

[acemenow]

Man... that's the entire purpose of the question. There are no reads.
Mid-pos raises 2bet, i call, BB calls, then starts betting on the flop (1bb). 2'nd and 3'rd player call.
I'm thinking possible Ax, flush draw or straight draw. Blinds are 25/50... barely begun.

The play was slow pre-flop. BB starts with a blocking raise, and everybody calls.
My logic... BB hit either a flush draw or a straight draw, and wants to see the turn. One of the other 2 is definitely calling with Ax (maybe both) or just overcards. Being the last to "speak", i hit top pair. I got 2 options there. Fold and let them fight, or push. Calling is not an option, because i can't risk letting them see the turn.
Nothing whatsoever indicates a premium hand. The mid-pos who raised pre-flop... just calls.
Furthermore it was played 4way. Me, in BB with KK, i would think "gotta protect my hand", so there is no way they get to see the flop without at least another 3/4bb's.
...fine, i made a mistake and they got to see the flop cheap... but i'm still holding KK's. That raise would be at least 70% of the pot, because it don't like the flop.
What's the point of having KK in BB if i'm just gonna let everyone play their crap. Or i'm just to assume "no worry man, KK's are winners all the way"... because i tried that more than once, and 99% of the times it backfired like hell.

However, the question of the topic is not about my play. For what it's worth, i stand by it, and would do it again.
The question was "is the BB to be considered a stalker?", how to protect yourself in situations like this? in an attempt to avoid them in the future.

I apologize. While I read your question last night it was late, and I was on my own thought process so disregarded your actual question. Thanks for clarifying above I get what you are saying and understand better.

I don't think there is enough info to label him a stalker but just my opinion. I generally don't label anyone until I have a lot more information on them. Specifically since I play freerolls very differently than I play buyins. I assume others do as well.

 

[kelvin22]

It's a freeroll. Not sure why you expect people to play like if it wasn't.

It's a common strategy in freerolls to lay low with premium hands because it is highly likely that someone else is going to raise from a BB up to All-In.

Even if it wasn't a freeroll people could use this strategy especially against aggressive players.

That being said you didn't do much wrong here. There are different ways to approach freerolls. Playing a hand like K9 is alright even if someone above said otherwise. At flop you thought you had the best hand at the table so going all-in to make 10+ cards or lower pairs fold is a good play.

Fortunately there are plenty of freerolls to pick and play so better luck next time.

Now i'm getting somewhere. These are the kind of answers that one would expect when opening a thread of any kind. People just throw it in my face... blah blah "get over it", when in fact it has nothing to do with that. I got over it more than once and in worse situations. Why they like to avoid the question just so they can jump at your throat... beats me. But thanks again, and thanks to all that answered. I believe that understanding things like this, will make my game better... eventually.

 

[kelvin22]

I'm still a beginner, but I don't see any reason to go all-in here. You will only get called by better hands. I would have raised 2x, and see what he would do. You almost didn't have any information about his hand, so it was way too risky IMO.

Yes it was, but i was in a position that allowed me to take that risk. Having little to no information, was 50% of the reason i went allin. Still, this isn't about MY play. Like i said, bad/good decision... i stand by it, and would do it again.
The question was about the KK play. Is he/she to be considered a stalker in this case. How to protect yourself in situations like this.

 

[AMTTT]

the Which Would Probably the lead to, loosing more than often the the if i do ...
Would you say The the (Overall) KK-play WAS a good one's?
Do you recommend it to other players who might read this topic?
How would you have played the K9 in that exact same situation? [/ Quote]

it is necessary to take into account the tournament, it was a freeroll and KK I never kidding, and K9 hand I do not even consider, throw a hand