Final table strategy flaw?

M

MissVix

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Hi all,

Two final tables in two days sounds like I'm doing good but I'm not. On both occasions I left very early and missing out on the payouts that attracted me to enter in the first place.

I play $1 - $10 MTT and if I keep it ABC, I'm usually short stacked and in push/fold mode. If I'm decently stacked and I try to use my leverage I get weakened when short stacks shove (either because I fold or am forced to call and lose) or get busted by another big stack.

In both games, players would sit out, leaving others to thin the field, before returning to the game after several pay jumps (with the added benefit of getting to the business end by shoving and doubling up).

I have just posted my last hand from my final table last night: https://tinyurl.com/yd2nhu3x

TL; DR: I have no idea what strategy to take. Conventional wisdom says hanging on fro dear life may get you in the money/a seat at the FT but rarely with a chance to get deep, whilst using leverage and not being afraid to lose your tourney life is best but I'm not so sure.

Thanks in advance.
 
Q

Qrise

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first of all, you need to fold your hands a lot and wait not only for a good card, but also for a convenient moment and an advantageous position. It is important to constantly have an ace with a kicker of at least 10, and everything else is advisable to fold ... It is advisable to fold even the King and Queen if they are not suited
 
D

DaMooca

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In tournaments you have to try to stay at least itm, but after the bubble bursts you have to take more risks and the goal becomes just the spike.

Whenever possible, you have to take advantage of the spots to try to accumulate chips.
 
tazer

tazer

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I'd say pay close attention to your position at the table. If you are big stack you want to put pressure on the shorter ones around you. If you have a big stack to your left this is a much more difficult task due to the fact that they will always act after you. So table positioning is key. If you always fold to a shove after you open people will mostly do it knowing you will just muck and give them your chips. I suggest if you are trying to put pressure be sure to have a good hand and go ahead and shove on them. Make them make the decision for all their chips. I think you'll find you will scoop a lot of blinds this way.
 
K

karl coakley

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Not sure what the problem was. You shoved with a strong hand, had a coin flip, and lost. It happens.

I thought you played fine and will get them next time.
 
milka1605

milka1605

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I'm never in a rush at the final table. The middle hand can be used when there are less than half of the players left at the table. If more than one player went all-in, it is better to discard the card. Try to pick up the BB. In general, I sit at the last table more than I play. I'm waiting for fewer players to stay.
 
D

Drake2

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Better strategy and letting others eliminate and pressing on the short stack and running away from the high stacks.
 
F

fundiver199

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First of all dont assume, you are doing something wrong, just because you finished in 8`th or 9`th place in a cupple of tournaments. In fact you probably did a lot of things right to make it that far, and someone have to finish in these places.

I have already commented on your hand, where you lost with AQ against 99 and 88. And while I do think, it was a slight mistake to overjam given the whole situation, when you enter the final table as the second shortest stack, you are going to need to win some spots like that to make it much further. Thats just the way, it is, and if you had known, that the all-in player had 99, and that someone behind was going to call with 88, then you would actually have wanted to call.

So if anything went wrong, it was probably not that hand, that send you out. Maybe it was your play before the final table, which was a little bit to cautious and did not allow you to enter the final table with a big stack. But to really say, if this is true, you would need to hire a coach to go over a bunch of your hand histories to see, if there are any general patterns. Its really not possible for someone in a forum to give you serious advice based on just the hand, that send you out.

What I can advice you however is to simply get some more experience playing final tables. And the best way to get that is to play relatively small field MTTs. When I started with tournament poker I grinded a lot of 45-180 man SnGs on pokerstars. And the games, where I have made the most money, are in MTTs on 888 Poker, where many of them have relatively small fields of 100 players or less. This allow me to get to final tables in many of my sessions and get that hands-on experience, which perhaps some of my opponents dont have.
 
Y

Yontox

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I actually watch a lot of videos on youtube on how to get better plays at final tables, you should check some out :)
 
S

Shay

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first of all, you need to fold your hands a lot and wait not only for a good card, but also for a convenient moment and an advantageous position. It is important to constantly have an ace with a kicker of at least 10, and everything else is advisable to fold ... It is advisable to fold even the King and Queen if they are not suited
Welllll what if then they raise so you fold?:confused:
 
Alekxandrovi3

Alekxandrovi3

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Try to play carefully. Don't push with medium and hands. Play good hands. In position, if you have a good stack, play medium hands. If you have a small stack and have an ace, play it all.
 
Matt_Burns88

Matt_Burns88

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Do not be too disheartened by this. Getting to a final table is a great achievement, but you still need an element of luck to win the tournament. AQ is not a bad hand to be shoving with in this situation. You could consider min raising, but you're going to be calling off almost every time unless you know one of your opponents is a super nit. In this specific situation, I would assume the 99 shoves and the 88 calls, so you might have got away from this particular one, but I do not think it is a huge mistake and overall a shove would be profitable.

Variance is a really hard thing to come to terms with, especially when you're on the wrong side of it a few times at the start of your poker journey, but you should try to not think about the outcome of a specific hand, but what your EV looks like.
 
ivanlt18

ivanlt18

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first of all, you need to fold your hands a lot and wait not only for a good card, but also for a convenient moment and an advantageous position. It is important to constantly have an ace with a kicker of at least 10, and everything else is advisable to fold ... It is advisable to fold even the King and Queen if they are not suited


I dont't know if I would play that tight. Sometimes you get some really bad streaks and basically get nothing during a lot of hands, that doesn't mean you need to step out forever. I would often try to jump in if I find myself in an advantageous position like you mention.
In the end it all depends on which type of players you're facing, that's the third card dealt to you, and you gotta play with it.
OP: People often forget that Poker is about luck as well, so considering that, you can always finish early even if you're playing well. You certainly can lose it all on a flip coin. I wouldn't say you did bad if you got into 2 final tables in a row, in fact you're doing pretty good. I'd say stick to your play. Variance can be very frustrating, but it won't be against you forever.

See you at the tables!
 
KozakAlex

KozakAlex

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The strategy depends on the number of chips and the behavior of the players. If there are not enough chips, then aggressive play through Allin. If there is a lot, then play only good hands to reach the maximum place and win more money. But usually nothing works, because by that time there is a lot of fatigue and it is very difficult to make the right decisions.
 
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