Deliberately slowing down the game in a tournament ?

[1nsomn1a]

This is a common situation in poker, deliberate delaying time, there have been cases when they made a re-raise on one blind, so that the trade went one more round, such tricks are always present during tournaments, if you are annoyed by such trifles, I think you need to work on psychology and patience.

 

[steve01991]

slowing the game down, makes no difference, i can play at a fast pace or a slow pace

 

[matiusaa]

In tournaments i think the best thing is to play more hands, thus I would’t waste time because blinds are rising. I can considerate it if that can determine if I get to the prizes or not, bet else there’s no point on wasting time in my opinion

 

[bonart]

Great read above on all your various insights. :congrats:

And when my next question was ' at which stage in a tournament that this is likely to be used logically. ' LOL

A 'tool' in a toolbox that one can take out when needed at the 'right time'.

The 'right time' is really highly debatable, but within logic, isn't it ?

Else, it's 'monkey sees, monkey does' scenario without understanding that it is actually hurting their chance to chip up before the killer blinds.

 

[Alizona]

The beauty of this great game is... you are free to play it any way you like.

This includes pace of play too. This is the reason there are time banks for online poker, and in the live poker environment we have TD's (Tournament Director) who act as the time bank for slower players. We'll ignore live play since it tends to be a little bit messier and annoying with real people face-to-face. Slow playing in live poker is a much worse offense than it is at online poker.

Since most of us here probably play online poker, let's just stick to that... and since we have a time bank that can be used up, each player always has the right to stall whenever they choose to, and for whatever reason. If they stall too long, or stall too many times in a row, they will run out of their time bank and then they cannot delay the game any further. So why worry about such players? It is their right to take their time, and quite honestly they could be doing it for many reasons - perhaps they do a lot of thinking when they play, or perhaps they have a crying infant that they're trying to tend to while playing poker - since you can't see the players, you can't make assumptions about the reason. Just let the time bank do its job, keep your patience, and don't let it bother you or get you off your game, that might be the reason they're stalling, to get you emotional. Don't give in, keep a level head at all times in this game. Good luck!!

 

[sundizzel]

In that situation its really bad for you to run into a situation, where you need to play a "flip" for your 20BB, like if for instance you pick up AK, and another player pick up JJ. If you lose, you are out without cashing, and if you win, you did not dubble your expected value (EV) in the tournament. Instead a lot of the EV of the busted player has gone to the short stacks, since they are now more likely to cash.

Let me preface this by saying I don't know much about ICM, and I know you're more learned in the ways of poker than I. I'm not arguing--just trying to understand.

Bottom line: you don't have to flip when you're 3 away from the money. Playing your hands and not flipping aren't mutually exclusive as long as no one has all-in'd pre-flop, in which case you can fold, rather than take the max turn length. Let's say you have AK and someone has already jammed. Easy fold if that's what you want to do. Let's say you have AK and open raise and then someone jams. Still an easy fold if that's what you want to do--3 BB down the drain, oh well, you're still triple the short stacks, and if everyone were really playing that nitty, your open raise might have a chance of getting through anyways, in which case you've sent a few extra big blinds' worth of padding your own direction.

If you do wind up flipping and winning, I don't understand your point about not doubling EV in the tournament and the busted players' EV going to the short stacks. In fact, I've never heard of EV as applied to a tournament or a player specifically--I've heard it only as applied to hands (don't see how it can be calculated without equities unless you're using chips stacks as compared to total chips in play as equity, which seems like a poor measure at best; furthermore, payout structures would greatly complicate any type of tournament EV calculations because of the inherent volatility of the game). In the situation where you lose, obviously you're right, which is why it's ideal to avoid a flip. In the situation where you win, you're now no longer a middling stack, are virtually guaranteed to get ITM and probably deeper, and are one position closer to the money. Regarding the busted players' EV going to the short stacks because they are now more likely to cash--who cares? You got the busted players' chips, and the short stacks are more than likely going to be eliminated before the money or shortly after ITM anyways. I don't see why you have to act the enforcer of who makes the money and doesn't when the same number of players will be making the money. In fact, it would be more advantageous to have the short stacks make the money by that logic because it would be easier to pressure them and ladder up further, especially if you had doubled up previously.

Anyways, I appreciate the response and look forward to your next one that I may learn something new!

- Sundizzel

 

[theANMATOR]

some players tend to take a lot of time to slow the game down in a big tournament.
Is that a strategy worth taking, or does it spoil the fun for the rest of the players on the table ?

Stalling the action near the bubble is part of a solid tournament strategy.
Its important though to understand, when you gain something by stalling, and when you dont. As someone said already, you see people stalling, when the tournament is in hand for hand mode, and that of course makes no sense. You also see people stalling, when its obvious, they need more chips to cash or ladder up.

On the other hand if its now down to 27 players, and there is no hand for hand, then it would be kind of dumb to go all-in without first using your entire chip bank. Say you min-raised AK with a 18BB stack and someone, who has you covered, has moved all in. Then you need to make the call, even you are not loving it. But if you wait as long as possible, maybe someone has busted at another table, and you end with a higher price, if you lose. So in this particular situation you should probably spend up your entire time bank before calling.

While I think there are a couple situations in which this is actually a legitimate strategy and I understand why some people intentionally slow down the game, I generally view it as bad poker and often see it mis-applied.
.

Great read above on all your various insights. :congrats:
And when my next question was ' at which stage in a tournament that this is likely to be used logically. ' LOL
A 'tool' in a toolbox that one can take out when needed at the 'right time'.
The 'right time' is really highly debatable, but within logic, isn't it ?
Else, it's 'monkey sees, monkey does' scenario without understanding that it is actually hurting their chance to chip up before the killer blinds.

In fact, I've never heard of EV as applied to a tournament or a player specifically--I've heard it only as applied to hands (don't see how it can be calculated without equities unless you're using chips stacks as compared to total chips in play as equity, which seems like a poor measure at best;
- Sundizzel

Miss-application of any stalling measure is surely something that is quite aggrivating - for sure, although stalling pre bubble is just part of the game.

The one that is quite silly is the players who will shove all but one big blind in - in an attempt to - I don't know really - and they obviously don't either, because it is hardly ever done when there is only one spot left before a pay jump or bubble, which would be the exact right time to deploy this stalling strategy.

I am not ashamed to say at all - I intentionally let my timer go all the way to 1-2 seconds on every turn - on the last level of late registration. This time reduces the amount of hands short stacks get to see, reducing their ability to get a 'quick' double up, or shove, lose and rebuy. This is a strategy to battle against those who think late registering at the last minute can be a good strategy. Ya better hope you don't end up on my table - you will see 10 fewer hands during this last level of late registration.


Not to answer directly for fundiver, but what I believe he was referring to was a players minimum expected value. If you join a tournament - any player has a reasonable expected value of 2x the buyin - at minimum, because that is often the min-cash.
There is no reason to go all in with a sub premium hand when your chip stack is one that will make that min-cash - without playing one hand, while other players do not have the same EV because they are at the bottom of the leaderboard - and will have to battle just to make min-cash.

 

[Oksana55]

Yes, I agree with many, sometimes I do it myself, but sometimes such a game brings me out.