Deep in a $500 MTT with QQ

azforlife

azforlife

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Just called a female players (obvious screen name) shove pre with QQ. I play way too many freefall don't even know what is right anymore? I flip way too much
I had 30 BB, should I be flipping here?
Tournaments really do suck sometimes
 
TheDude6622

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Just called a female players (obvious screen name) shove pre with QQ. I play way too many freefall don't even know what is right anymore? I flip way too much
I had 30 BB, should I be flipping here?
Tournaments really do suck sometimes

What's her stack size and playing style? How deep in the tournament are you? What was your bet or did she just shove before you bet?
 
Poker_Mike

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Just called a female players (obvious screen name) shove pre with QQ. I play way too many freefall don't even know what is right anymore? I flip way too much
I had 30 BB, should I be flipping here?
Tournaments really do suck sometimes


If she open shoved preflop with over 30 BB then it looks suspicious and I might think my QQ was dominating her hand.

I know the feeling your going through right now....like you're too eager to lose after playing so well for hours!

No poker player will tell you that you made a bad move. The question is always if you had to put yourself at risk when you can start to see the finish line.

I mean winning the hand and having 60BB is a really sweet spot to approach the bubble with!

Untilt yourself my friend.
Good luck !
 
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to me its a bubble set up that i cant let go. deeper you get the more ace rags get used. Ax plus seems always gets a play. Most times its close enough to a flip do you want to gamble? Cant win without a few gambles. If your in the money go for it. Ive pushed with less.:cool:
 
1sunchin

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If the opponent's stack is bigger than yours, it all depends on what you want more - at least to get ITM or to get to the final table with the opportunity to take 1 place in the tournament.
 
pentazepam

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Unless you have a read that they are very tight-passive - with QQ you are happy to put it in with just 30bb in almost any tournament.

If you see AK you win more than you lose in the long run. Don't be afraid to flip if you play MTTs.

I would only fold in certain bubble situations and some satellite scenarios.
 
azforlife

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If she open shoved preflop with over 30 BB then it looks suspicious and I might think my QQ was dominating her hand.

I know the feeling your going through right now....like you're too eager to lose after playing so well for hours!

No poker player will tell you that you made a bad move. The question is always if you had to put yourself at risk when you can start to see the finish line.

I mean winning the hand and having 60BB is a really sweet spot to approach the bubble with!

Untilt yourself my friend.
Good luck !
Thanks Mike!
I really found comfort in your kind words!
This game continues to amaze me!
It was a genius shove by her as she could have middling pairs there but the more I play with tight players, the more I see that this line is usual (shoving with KK even though to me they're losing a ton of value) The more I research the more I see that QQ is overrated & it's best to err on the side of caution!
Untilting myself is a daily ritual for me like daily forgiveness is. GL brother
 
azforlife

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If the opponent's stack is bigger than yours, it all depends on what you want more - at least to get ITM or to get to the final table with the opportunity to take 1 place in the tournament.
Yeah I guess in a vacuum that's what it comes down to & you're right 80-90% of the time but I'm of the opinion that if you pick your spots you can get back in it even with 10-15 BB. Trust me I flip a lot (or sed to) but I'm becoming more risks averse, maybe this is a pending leak!
 
azforlife

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Unless you have a read that they are very tight-passive - with QQ you are happy to put it in with just 30bb in almost any tournament.

If you see AK you win more than you lose in the long run. Don't be afraid to flip if you play MTTs.

I would only fold in certain bubble situations and some satellite scenarios.
Yes I still think generally it's a call!
Appreciate your succinct advice!
I guess player type is what it comes down to, that & key spots is when I'll try to avoid calling with just a pair.
Thanks & GL!
 
azforlife

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to me its a bubble set up that i cant let go. deeper you get the more ace rags get used. Ax plus seems always gets a play. Most times its close enough to a flip do you want to gamble? Cant win without a few gambles. If your in the money go for it. Ive pushed with less.:cool:
Yeah when you think about it I guess there's really no way past a flip even holding KK vs A rag which is very common. Thanks for refreshing my memory lol the thing is I was like 15 peeps away from the money so that's why it stings. I've pushed with far far less too, it's an evolution lol
GL pappa
 
Brandlad

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The great saying is very true "Aces win the matches."
In a freeroll and in paid tourneys you will always see Ax dominating any pair from KK to 2 2 if an Ace hits till river anyhow.

QQ is a great hand. Calling a villain with QQ is worthy, subject to your read and what your expectations from tourney.
If you are playing to finish in top 3 then you must face the pressure of these coin flips.
If you want to pass the bubble so that you can have +ive $$ then preflop shoving is avoidable unless you have decent stack. Here post flop game matters.
Yesterday I was plaging $3000 CC tourney on intertops. I managed to passed the bubble and in the end I had 12BBs and got QQ. A villian raised 4x ahead me and I knew he had Ax. I went allins and he hit his Ax and I got out at 19th place.
So it is true Aces win matches but to win a tourney we must take coin flips.
 
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Calling here is simple if you want to win. Mathematically it's a correct call. If tou are scared and just want to double or triple your money you can fold. If you are properly bankrolled for this 500$MTT it's 100% call.
 
BobbyMorton

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If you want to win the tournament you must shove qq.:):):)
 
Luvepoker

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It really depend on the opponent you are up against. I have played with people live who just never ever raise or even "god forbid" go all in unless its aces or kings and near the bubble they may only push with aces. Could I have folded here against his type of player, yes I can, but they are a rare breed. Even a tight player here you are ahead of more often that not since they will do this with AK. Against a loose player its a snap call. The one hard part is you did have a decent size stack here and going for it with 30BB is a lot but I think you played it correctly. You want to win and not just play to cash.
 
blueskies

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Thanks Mike!
I really found comfort in your kind words!
This game continues to amaze me!
It was a genius shove by her as she could have middling pairs there but the more I play with tight players, the more I see that this line is usual (shoving with KK even though to me they're losing a ton of value) The more I research the more I see that QQ is overrated & it's best to err on the side of caution!
Untilting myself is a daily ritual for me like daily forgiveness is. GL brother

This is where history with a player helps. Ppl who shove with KK+ and 30+ BBs left are bad. They generally play a certain way.

If you have no history with a player who shoves like that, I would call.
 
azforlife

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What's her stack size and playing style? How deep in the tournament are you? What was your bet or did she just shove before you bet?
missed it first time around sorry. It was mid- late stages around a dozen ppl off the money, She just shoved UTG
 
azforlife

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It really depend on the opponent you are up against. I have played with people live who just never ever raise or even "god forbid" go all in unless its aces or kings and near the bubble they may only push with aces. Could I have folded here against his type of player, yes I can, but they are a rare breed. Even a tight player here you are ahead of more often that not since they will do this with AK. Against a loose player its a snap call. The one hard part is you did have a decent size stack here and going for it with 30BB is a lot but I think you played it correctly. You want to win and not just play to cash.
Yes sir, the stack size is what made it sting a lot more at the time.
It just reinforces the fact that you can't play like a robot, Poker is a really player dependent game & adjusting is crucial & part of the skill element. It was also on ACR, smaller field, I think I'm always calling on Pstars, don't how sound that logic is but it sure plays a part in my mind. Thanks
 
azforlife

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The great saying is very true "Aces win the matches."
In a freeroll and in paid tourneys you will always see Ax dominating any pair from KK to 2 2 if an Ace hits till river anyhow.

QQ is a great hand. Calling a villain with QQ is worthy, subject to your read and what your expectations from tourney.
If you are playing to finish in top 3 then you must face the pressure of these coin flips.
If you want to pass the bubble so that you can have +ive $$ then preflop shoving is avoidable unless you have decent stack. Here post flop game matters.
Yesterday I was plaging $3000 CC tourney on Intertops. I managed to passed the bubble and in the end I had 12BBs and got QQ. A villian raised 4x ahead me and I knew he had Ax. I went allins and he hit his Ax and I got out at 19th place.
So it is true Aces win matches but to win a tourney we must take coin flips.
Yes sir you said it all & I agree! But it's not onlyAcerag,it's K5 when you have QQ & below etc.You did well @ 12 bb!! Would you have called @ 30BB like I did is the real question?
 
theANMATOR

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I would have made the call - if I had prior info on the player that she was shoving light - but I would not have liked it. But - it depends really - if this player has shown to shove A/rag often or only pocket pairs, never AA/KK - and has shove preflop several times in since you have been on the table with her, I'd probably call.
Players who fold often, do not play post flop, and are only shoving, they are shoving ANY ACE, ANY pocket pair, and possibly any two broadway cards.
Qs - ugh - tough call, totally dependent on the player info you have on the opponent.

So it is true Aces win matches but to win a tourney we must take coin flips.
Yeah - putting in Qs just to get sucked out by an Ace rag - is infuriating, and it never fails when the shove donk is giving away his entire stack with A/7 off suit - called with Qs and that flop or river provides the needed Ace for him to win.

All short stacks 15bb or less are shoving with any rag ace or any pocket pair. This is why they call it a flip. If the opponents stack was half mine - I'd make the call, if the opponents stack had me covered but he had been shoving preflop more than 4-5 times in one hour - I might make that call as well. If this was the first time I'd seen that opponent open shove - I would be a lot more cautious.

If you want to win the tournament you must shove qq.:):):)
Not sure about this - you are letting another player dictate how you play your premium hand, and this is a call off of someone elses shove, not an open shove. I totally agree this is a call - but letting another player dictate how you play your cards is NOT +EV and will not win the tourney. And risking 30bb for tourney life - very close to the money is not 100% mandatory call with Queens. Kings and Aces - 100% yes - Q's and below - a player could fold and still take down the event without risking entire tourney life on a guess.
 
Acesinthebig

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Interesting how you mention she is a female. Does this change the hand? It's also funny you are convinced the player is female based off a screen name.
 
zinzir

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Just called a female players (obvious screen name) shove pre with QQ. I play way too many freefall don't even know what is right anymore? I flip way too much
I had 30 BB, should I be flipping here?
Tournaments really do suck sometimes

Did you get to that point in the tournament mainly by shoving pre flop or playing small ball? If you are an experienced player and have great post flop skills, then going all in before flop takes away that advantage and brings you down to average Joe level. By the same token, if you are less experienced, going all in is the right thing to do because it forces your opponents down to your level. For me, the stage of the tournament doesn't matter as I have a low threshold for going all in before flop and colliding with large stacks even on the bubble and never regret when lady luck turns her face away from me, embracing the idea of "live by the sword, die by the sword". The female screen name is irrelevant in my opinion as plenty of men choose female nicks and avatars and get a kick out of it.
 
zinzir

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Interesting how you mention she is a female. Does this change the hand? It's also funny you are convinced the player is female based off a screen name.


Totally agree with your statement. Hey, how far did you go in last night's ACR CC freeroll? You doubled three times on my expense, eventually felting me and becoming chip leader after that KK vs A10 crazy hand, remember? :)
 
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do you have anything against female players kk
 
edenman1

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I play queens pretty hard, and they seem to win a pretty high percentage of the time on 888
 
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