Dealer asked money after tourney

[lqprimetime]

Notice I deleted a lot of this quote because the information Is incorrect. The average wage for dealers before tips is $6.85. Once you figure this out you will change your tune. I can prove it. You are just spitting numbers out. Good day.

And it isn't $6.85, i just told you what they make usually it is $10 or more per hour usually in the "teens" is what my original post said. What you did is go google find results you want, but what you got in your results where what a couple of random people reported on a website like glassdoor that said $6-$7 $7-$9, or just generic info on averages, and an estimate based on some random people who maybe talking out their ass.

Here i did a random search too to get estimated salaries and not actual...

And note 23.1k the minimum end, is over $11/hr, there is that $8-$9, these are advertising the minimum....


AGAIN... this is not what waitresses make, this is way more than the minimum $2/hr often $3-$4/hr they make... but the reason a casino may only pay minimum wage(which is $7.25/hr) is if it is a premium casino that does a lot of business and has lowered their pay to compensate for the tips. Maybe BIG casino on the strip a Bellagio, Wynn, Aria, one of the big names that does tons and has full tables at good stakes.
But other casinos, especially off the strip, and many on, pay the minimum $9-$10+, the casino job you would probably get would pay $14 or $15.

The jobs your are basing your weak case of googling and finding $6... are the casino jobs a dealer imagines, on the strip...Bellagio or whatever, but the average or new dealer isn't going to land the dream medium+ stakes table at a huge casino. That takes experience, sometimes even within the casino. Even then... it isn't 6, and it isn't 2 or 4 like waitresses.

The case people were making about teachers whether they knew it or not, were referencing the more prestigious casinos(your allegedly $6/hr one) which is actually 50k/year overall.

EVERYONE would love to make 50k a year being a dealer. More than a starting teacher or fireman. Damn more than Walmart or Mcdonalds, and with no college degree.

HERES A TLDR FOR YOU:
We are basically comparing.... (1) Diner waitress who makes min wage $7.25/hr with small tips (2) Chilis waitress who makes $2-$4/hr + good average tips and has to work for them (3) Expensive restaurant Michelin Stars or not $2-$4/hr + major tips.

Job (1) is what you are going to get with little experience or poor skills, just starting out.
These are your granny casinos off the strip. And weird shifts. But they know you are getting no tips so you get the $10-$15/hr
Job (2) is your typical dealer, 1 year maybe 2 or so experience, gets a job anywhere, like Chilis is anywhere. Is ok making $8 or $9/hr, this is just their job, and they come out decently with tips. Maybe they do work at Bellagio somewhere in low stakes, but probably just one of the "other" casinos or hotels on the stip.
Job (3) is the experienced career dealer that gets jobs at the big casinos, or the higher stake tables that come with big tips.

In every situation, the dealer makes more base salary than a waitress. Just stop with the waitress talk.
AND AGAIN DEALERS DO NOTHING TO EARN A TIP. It is done because we have just been doing it and are happy to have money.

 

[lqprimetime]

And we totally left the original post's point behind. The dealer ASKED for the tip.
We can all agree, you don't ASK for a tip. A waitress lives off tips almost literally, and they don't ASK. I have seen a waiter run outside to catch a group just to check if the service was ok? Because he was a bit lost as to why no tip. This is as close as you should come to asking. A very subtle, humble concerned way of wondering where the tip was, and seeing if they did or can do something better next time.

Or he could have gone AAAAYYY WHERE'S MA TIP?

 

[theothermj]

Tip if you want and don't if you don't want. Dealers are employed and get paid for what they do. Tipping is a nice gesture and I usually always do it when called for but not a required action.

The thought process of using a percent is flawed also. I never tip using percentage. For example if I go out to eat then the tip I leave is between $2 - $5 no matter what the meal total is. I have left some $20 tips the odd time but not often. I look at it this way ..... if I was getting an extra $2 - $5 at my job per hour I would be happy to receive it. To complain about not getting more " Extra " cash is what is wrong with the tipping culture not the people leaving small percentage tips.

As an ex waiter let me explain that we make about $5.00 plus tips. There are "hours" we don't work at the beginning and the end of the shift. There are lunches we don't make an extra $5/hour.

Here's the kicker. The overwhelming majority of servers receive no pay check or like $.70/hour. The reason why is that in the USA the government allocates 15-18% of your SALES and then subtracts your Credit Card tips...so the people the server is paying tax to has calculated that tax based on you leaving $15-$18 on a $100.

I would never suggest tipping a large amount for bad service. I trained waiters and took that very seriously. I know it is our job to make you relax. Some people like the waiter involved, others don't. Truth is getting the table greeted quick, get drinks on the table, keep it clean and read what they want.

I would have been one you gave a $20 too

 

[MemphisGrind]

And we totally left the original post's point behind. The dealer ASKED for the tip.
We can all agree, you don't ASK for a tip. A waitress lives off tips almost literally, and they don't ASK. I have seen a waiter run outside to catch a group just to check if the service was ok? Because he was a bit lost as to why no tip. This is as close as you should come to asking. A very subtle, humble concerned way of wondering where the tip was, and seeing if they did or can do something better next time.

Or he could have gone AAAAYYY WHERE'S MA TIP?

Correct this will never be Okay. Asking for a tip is terrible.

 

[Herkstwin]

This is fine too. When that technology is available and in all casinos. We will no longer have to worry about it tipping won't be an issue anymore, but until then you are dealing with human beings that have families.

The robot dealers will be amazing - fast, accurate, error-free, no useless chatter, no socializing with the locals and ignoring the visitors, no tipping, AND they will cost a fortune. The casinos will then raise the rake to pay for the robots. Whether or not that balances out between rake and tips remains to be seen.
In the meantime, I always tip a chip or two when I win in a cash game. If it is a big pot, I may go higher. If the pot is less than 10 chips, then the dealer gets nothing.

 

[MemphisGrind]

And it isn't $6.85, i just told you what they make usually it is $10 or more per hour usually in the "teens" is what my original post said. What you did is go google find results you want, but what you got in your results where what a couple of random people reported on a website like glassdoor that said $6-$7 $7-$9, or just generic info on averages, and an estimate based on some random people who maybe talking out their ass.

Here i did a random search too to get estimated salaries and not actual...
View attachment 213401
And note 23.1k the minimum end, is over $11/hr, there is that $8-$9, these are advertising the minimum....


AGAIN... this is not what waitresses make, this is way more than the minimum $2/hr often $3-$4/hr they make... but the reason a casino may only pay minimum wage(which is $7.25/hr) is if it is a premium casino that does a lot of business and has lowered their pay to compensate for the tips. Maybe BIG casino on the strip a Bellagio, Wynn, Aria, one of the big names that does tons and has full tables at good stakes.
But other casinos, especially off the strip, and many on, pay the minimum $9-$10+, the casino job you would probably get would pay $14 or $15.

The jobs your are basing your weak case of googling and finding $6... are the casino jobs a dealer imagines, on the strip...Bellagio or whatever, but the average or new dealer isn't going to land the dream medium+ stakes table at a huge casino. That takes experience, sometimes even within the casino. Even then... it isn't 6, and it isn't 2 or 4 like waitresses.

The case people were making about teachers whether they knew it or not, were referencing the more prestigious casinos(your allegedly $6/hr one) which is actually 50k/year overall.

EVERYONE would love to make 50k a year being a dealer. More than a starting teacher or fireman. Damn more than Walmart or Mcdonalds, and with no college degree.

HERES A TLDR FOR YOU:
We are basically comparing.... (1) Diner waitress who makes min wage $7.25/hr with small tips (2) Chilis waitress who makes $2-$4/hr + good average tips and has to work for them (3) Expensive restaurant Michelin Stars or not $2-$4/hr + major tips.

Job (1) is what you are going to get with little experience or poor skills, just starting out.
These are your granny casinos off the strip. And weird shifts. But they know you are getting no tips so you get the $10-$15/hr
Job (2) is your typical dealer, 1 year maybe 2 or so experience, gets a job anywhere, like Chilis is anywhere. Is ok making $8 or $9/hr, this is just their job, and they come out decently with tips. Maybe they do work at Bellagio somewhere in low stakes, but probably just one of the "other" casinos or hotels on the stip.
Job (3) is the experienced career dealer that gets jobs at the big casinos, or the higher stake tables that come with big tips.

In every situation, the dealer makes more base salary than a waitress. Just stop with the waitress talk.
AND AGAIN DEALERS DO NOTHING TO EARN A TIP. It is done because we have just been doing it and are happy to have money.

Ughhhhhhhhhh this is getting so old.... No my reference to what dealers make is not from "weak case of googling and finding $6" It's is from seeing the pay stubs from all MY friends in MY local casino that I play at. YOUR figures are coming from YOUR weak case of googling. If other dealers in other areas of the world or even other areas of the U.S. make more then what the dealers in my local casino are making, then I can agree that tipping is not AS important but still warranted. The reference to the waiters and waitresses was an attempt to relate to something that could be more easily understood, but obviously that got lost in translation. If you don't want to tip fine don't do it.. I'll tip extra for every person that doesn't.

 

[underdog140]

"Non tippers are not punishing the workers that is a ludicrous thing to say." No it is not a ludicrous thing to say, if no one tips they make 5.00 an hour. If that isn't punishment then i don't know what is...

Yes it is a ludicrous thing to say. Not all waiters make $5 an hour. Not all min wage laws in all countries are the same. For the places that allow $5 / $6 an hour for waiters then that sucks but if you agree to do a job for $5 / $6 then that is on each individual persons to decide if the wage is worth it to them.

Waiters attend more then one table so not getting a tip from person still means they may have got one from another which is upping their pay.

Lets use your $5 pay scale as an example. Most waiters wait on at least 2 - 3 tables. Most people don't eat alone so lets say on average each table spend $50 for a total of $150 for on average of 1 hour of occupying table area. 15 % in tips gives that waiter $22.50 + $5 = $27.50 for that hours work. Even at 10 % that is $15 extra an hour. There are allot of hard working people that get way less then that. Even if each table only tipped $2 each that would mean $5 + $6 for $11 an hour which allot of hard working people go to jobs for everyday.

Tipping is a choice and shouldn't be looked down on if not done. It's the employers job to pay his employees .... no-one elses.

"Not tipping is more a stance against the tipping culture in general and the employer then it is against the employee."
You are not going to fix the tipping culture by not tipping, it is a long process that needs to be fought without impacting the dealer and or food service. There are other ways to go about this as I outlined earlier such as writing to the government talking to local politicians not tipping isn't going to fix this.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

"The only time not tipping or tipping poorly is a stance against the employee is when you purposely not tip because of the service."
this is terrible as well there is never an acceptable time to not tip even if poor service.

The bolded all I need to know about you in this conversation. Anyone who believes what you wrote there is no real point in having a debate with about the subject.

"No tipping from anyone would mean the employer would be forced to pay a decent wage to their workers because if they didn't they wouldn't have any. Restaurant owners / Casino's are not just going to change their stance if the current tipping culture isn't changed.
You are repeating yourself, as I stated before this is not correct, this is not how you are going to change the tipping culture by not tipping. again there are other ways of going about this where you are not impacting the ones providing the service.

You are repeating yourself as well and I am correct. The only time a customer is punishing a waiter is when they purposely not tip / tip poorly due to service. If not tipping is a persons standard action then no punishment towards the waiter has taken place.

"I am not arguing the moral aspect of tipping ( morals are subjective ) but saying not tipping is something that is atrocious is a large over-statement. Again as I said numerous times ... I do tip."
I am not trying to make a large over-statement I am giving my opinion. That is good that you tip, but you have also said that you only tip 2-5 dollars regardless of bill amount and effort by the server.

Saying someone is a horrible person for not tipping or not picking up garbage is a large over-statement.

Only $2 - $5 means someone just made $2 - $5 more an hour on top of what they are already getting paid. Which don't include what-ever other tips they may have been giving during the time I was in the establishment. There is nothing wrong with a $2 - $5 tip. I would love to have such a raise at my job.

And without knowing how much my service cost how do you know my $2 - $5 tip is a bad one ?

So I\m not a decent human if I don't pick up garbage on the side of the road ? Not stopping for a car that is broke down .... not tipping ... these are some large leaps apart on the moral scale of deciding what to do in each case.
I feel that actions speak louder than words. Those were two distinct examples that popped into my head. To answer your specific question of by not picking up trash or stopping for broke down cars does it or does it not make you a decent human I would answer both yes and no. It's not the exact actions of picking up trash or stopping. Those examples were used to help support a greater idea. If you don't understand the greater idea then maybe that answers the question.

I think actions speak louder then words also and I assume most others do as well. You used examples that are leaps and bounds from each other in most peoples moral compasses and lumped everyone together in the " bad person " category.

If you understand the point of a tip then giving an accurate tip wouldn't bother you. You would actually feel good about your tip. You are looking at it from the viewpoint of if I keep with this tipping culture nothing will ever change from the corporation standpoint instead of looking at it from the POV of the ones serving and dealing. As I have stated multiple times there are ways to combat the corporations to fix the tipping culture, but trying to get everyone to just gradually stop tipping is not the way to go about it.

Who said anything about a tip bothering me. It doesn't bother me at all and I almost always leave a tip. I just don't leave one based on someone else view on what I should do with my money. I don't feel bad about my tip nor do I feel good about it. I don't give a tip for self gratification so why would I feel good. I give a tip because I like the service / food I received.

 

[oneybiggs]

Crikey we don't do tips or tipping in new zealand and always get good friendly service although the modern culture of complicating simple things is becoming overwhelmingly more apparent in all aspects of our day to day lives.bad service here means bad reputation.bad rep means you go broke giving the others more reason for service with a smile.And if a dealer asked me for a tip,I'd tell him number 4 in the 8th and I want half lol.

 

[xbronk]

the dealer​

:hmmmm2::hmmmm2:

never loses the cobra commission by hand and you can give him a tip when you like at least so it is in the live games where I play​

:hmmmm2:

 

[underdog140]

As an ex waiter let me explain that we make about $5.00 plus tips. There are "hours" we don't work at the beginning and the end of the shift. There are lunches we don't make an extra $5/hour.

Here's the kicker. The overwhelming majority of servers receive no pay check or like $.70/hour. The reason why is that in the USA the government allocates 15-18% of your SALES and then subtracts your Credit Card tips...so the people the server is paying tax to has calculated that tax based on you leaving $15-$18 on a $100.

I would never suggest tipping a large amount for bad service. I trained waiters and took that very seriously. I know it is our job to make you relax. Some people like the waiter involved, others don't. Truth is getting the table greeted quick, get drinks on the table, keep it clean and read what they want.

I would have been one you gave a $20 too

Those are some shitty laws the USA has for waiters. That being said ... you knew the pay scale before saying yes to the job. Lots of jobs have employee's not getting paid for lunch breaks and hours inbetween daily shifts.

As a waiter you likely have got plenty of tips that weren't taxed also. I understand the circumstance and it sucks but again ... its the employer's responsibility to pay its workers.

I as the customer walk into an establishment and pay for the service that establishments provides. If I want to pay extra ( tips ) that is fine and if I don't want to that is fine also as I already paid for the service I requested with the initial bill.

 

[theothermj]

Those are some shitty laws the USA has for waiters. That being said ... you knew the pay scale before saying yes to the job. Lots of jobs have employee's not getting paid for lunch breaks and hours inbetween daily shifts.

As a waiter you likely have got plenty of tips that weren't taxed also. I understand the circumstance and it sucks but again ... its the employer's responsibility to pay its workers.

I as the customer walk into an establishment and pay for the service that establishments provides. If I want to pay extra ( tips ) that is fine and if I don't want to that is fine also as I already paid for the service I requested with the initial bill.

Thank goodness in my 7 or so years of waiting tables I met someone like you maybe 2x.

By your explanation you can get your own drink, clear your own table, find your way to where the food is picked up, seat yourself and if you leave or complain they will call the police. Your not a customer a restaurant would want and yes the quality of places I worked at would ask you to leave and not return.

Even insinuating you would eat in a restaurant and not tip shows your arrogance. You should announce when you enter that you don't tip and then you can get the service you pay for. Waiters aren't there for your entertainment

 

[underdog140]

Thank goodness in my 7 or so years of waiting tables I met someone like you maybe 2x.

By your explanation you can get your own drink, clear your own table, find your way to where the food is picked up, seat yourself and if you leave or complain they will call the police. Your not a customer a restaurant would want and yes the quality of places I worked at would ask you to leave and not return.

Even insinuating you would eat in a restaurant and not tip shows your arrogance. You should announce when you enter that you don't tip and then you can get the service you pay for. Waiters aren't there for your entertainment

I have no problem doing all that myself but I would expect the food prices in such a place would represent the self service market. If not I will simply eat somewhere else.

Insisting you deserve a tip is what is arrogant. Do your job and if someone is nice enough to leave a tip say thank you and move on. If not don't whine because you didn't get more money then you agreed to before starting your job. If I had a waiter with your attitude I would purposely not tip.

As pointed out my family owns a restaurant establishment and none of their waiters expect tips but are thankful when they get them. Their awesome service is the same for every customer ( tipper and none ) as it should be as they are getting paid to provide such a service to the customers. And that pay they get comes from the customers payment of the food they purchased.

I never said waiters were here to entertain. They are here to wait on people. There is a reason the title waiter has the word wait in it.

wait·er


ˈwādər/


noun

• a man whose job is to serve customers at their tables in a restaurant.

[/COLOR]

 

[TheNutz4You]

If it is not included in the buyin already, than I think a tip of some amount is the right thing to do. Now the amount is going to depend on what your BR can afford to tip.

 

[57noona]

I would tip about 3%.

 

[cheeeer]

The casino I noticed has two different dealers the crap ones for the tournament and the good ones for cash.

And that's why:

as far as the ettiqutte ive been taught to always tip if you win via river/bad beat also if you win big pot. didnt know about the tourney tipping

Im honestly surprised a dealer actually asked you or said something to you about a tip...i do tip occasionally but i wouldnt if i was made to seem like i had to or i should

Well, it looked from the side of dealer if they don't ask noone will give. From the side of player it looked 80% of players probably will go in minus (even without travel expenses!). While dealer will receive $100-200 a day anyway (even without tips!).

Hello.
I play poker for 5 months, so I play only freerolls. This will allow me to get a good experience for free.

Perfect way not to tip.

Just remind them that those human like advanced Japanese robot dealers don't ask for tips.

Don't know.. I'd prefer warm charming polite girl around than cold robot. Even Japanese.
Ahhh! You push me to the thought to tip more than anyone else!

And we totally left the original post's point behind. The dealer ASKED for the tip.

Ohhh, such a joy someone remembers the original post, though I appreciate all answers.
Well, dealer didn't really ASK. It was like: "wouldn't you mind to tip dealers?"
If no: "ok, sorry. No problem."
If yes:
-ok, how much do you want?
-10% would be nice.
-WHAT?? With 2% from buy-in - 12%?
- ok, anything you want.

 

[Chief talking bull]

I don't know what they do where your at but at Foxwoods they take 3% of the prize pool as a tip for the dealers. That's because nobody was tipping them.

 

[SpartanFan1]

Tipping

I spoke with a couple of Tournament Directors in Las Vegas about this and they all suggested 3% if you cash. This was less than I guessed so that was a plus.

 

[ATruRube]

Glassdoor info: $28,973/yr

How much does a Table Games Dealer make in Las Vegas, NV?The average salary for a Table Games Dealer is $28,973 in Las Vegas, NV. Salaries estimates are based on 54... More
Salaries for Related Job Titles
Casino Shift Manager$32K
Casino Dealer$29K
Casino Floor Supervisor$49K
Poker Dealer$29K


I personally could not live on 29K per year, not if I had a car, mortgage, and didn't live at home with mom and dad?

 

[Destruct51]

Tips are for winners, the house isn't expecting tips from losing customers. they are doing just fine.

 

[cheeeer]

I don't know what they do where your at but at Foxwoods they take 3% of the prize pool as a tip for the dealers. That's because nobody was tipping them.

Yes, since this year they take 3%.

I spoke with a couple of Tournament Directors in Las Vegas about this and they all suggested 3% if you cash. This was less than I guessed so that was a plus.

Thank You.
Thank You even more that you waited so long and posted only in my thread.

 

[Zorba]

Not all the dealers in the world get shafted by their employee taking advantage of paying them peanuts because the law allows it. It's the employers responsibility to pay their workers. I didn't hire that dealer in the casino or that waitress in the restaurant I ate at last week. I am not responsible for the wage they get from their employer. I also don't get to decide if they deem if that wage is worthy of their time or not.


As for your question on if I would work somewhere where my salary all goes to taxes the answer is no. If for some reason someone decides their answer is yes then that is on them to determine not me.




Yes I would be fine with that. I have no problem walking up to the kitchen and picking up my food that was cooked by the chief nor do I have a problem with dealing. I should preface this by saying I rarely visit a casino. But in this self dealing casino I would expect to pay less rake since I am helping the casino with their over-head cost. I would also expect to pay less for my food in this self-serving restaurant.



I never said anything was wrong with percent based tipping. If that is what you want to do then all means go ahead and do that. It's your money and you can do with it as you please.

I said percentage based tipping is flawed. 15 % is standard and anything less your a cheap ass is the normal argument. I disagree with the practice because someone shouldn't be rewarded more " extra " money just because a person ordered an expensive meal instead of a standard priced one that involves the same effort to make.


No, we were talking about Dealers and Waiters and both industries as you asked me if I worked in either.

The dealer is an employee of the Casino. I did not hire him or her. I am a customer of the casino who pays rake to the Casino for the Casinos services. One of these services is having a live dealer at any table games I wish to play. If I want to pay extra ( tips ) for this service then that is for me to decide. It is not a mandatory action to tip and it shouldn't be looked down on when not done. What should be looked down on is an industry / employers who don't pay fair wages.

A casino is also an attraction that is built to take your money. Part of that attraction is using live dealers to entice you to play in their tables games. .. Poker , Craps , Black Jack ect. I am not responsible for paying for the casinos attractions that are designed for me to loose my money to them.


That's great and I am sure the dealers and food establishment workers thank you for your tips. That doesn't mean your way is the cookie cutter way of tipping. Waiters for example bring food. If I bring a date and rack up a $100 bill and spend an hour in the restaurant your trying to tell me that I should tip $20. So this waiter would get their hourly wage + $20 + tips from the other tables she attended to during that hour. She would be making more an hour then most get that have took a trade or went to collage for. Percentage tipping is extremely flawed.


Not tipping does not equal taking people for granted. The employer not paying their employees a correct wage is what can be called taking people for granted.

- All that being said I usually always leave a tip. As pointed out already even a $5 tip to an establishment I been in for less then an hour is leaving someone make an extra $5 an hour at least for that hour I was in there and who here wouldn't want an extra $5 an hour added to their salary.

I agree with all that you are saying, it is the empolyers responsibility to pay a decent wage, imho tips are something between the customer and the service staff, the employer should have nothing to do with tips to an employee. i.e. use tips made as part of a salary description.

:bandit:

Not every place in the world allows employers to underpay waiters / waitresses / dealers ect. For example in Canada the min wage differs per Province but the min wage is the min wage and doesn't change to factor in tips. Your employer is still required to pay the min to their employees and any tips you get is " extra " on top of your wage.

Dealers here get $38/h and tips if given any. Mandatory % tipping is a joke.

:sheep:

I don't understand why people need to take their issues with the corporations out on the dealers and waiters and waitresses. They don't like it either that their pay sucks, but you think it's fair to them to make your point by shafting them. If you really cared you would protest against the establishment not the employees.

Not tipping is not a protest against the employees, maybe some of those massive profits can go towards decent wages and the casino owners can become like you say, "decent human beings"

Notice I deleted a lot of this quote because the information Is incorrect. The average wage for dealers before tips is $6.85. Once you figure this out you will change your tune. I can prove it. You are just spitting numbers out. Good day.

Then something is seriously wrong if casinos here can pay dealers $38/h and the casinos here have nowhere near the traffic that US casinos have.

:hmmmm: