Common mistakes I/You see in the CC freeroll players

[roger perkins]

Ok this is a thread to discuss what I or You see in the play of our fellow CC freeroll players. This is not to point out any particular players but to hopefully help your and my game.
Common Mistakes as I/You see them. Agree or Disagree I/You may see things different so lets discuss.

The all in jam preflop when the blinds/pot is low. I see this a lot.

I think this is a big mistake for the following reasons.

1. You are risking usually 2000 to 3000 chips to gain less than 50 to 100. The risk return here is way to out of line. Also you failed to maximize the amount of chips you could have gained.

2. If called you are probably way behind or at best risking your tournament life on a flip before the tournament has even really started. Or maybe the caller is just looking to get lucky and maybe he will.

3. The winner of the tournament is never determined in the first levels and the winner is not the player that wins the most hands its the player that wins the most chips.
I remember a tournament I was in it was level 1 and about 400 players were in. One guy jumps up and yells "Yes I just tripled up". He didn't get ITM he didn't even make it to the second break.

 

[Gutshot Gus]

I don't like limping and will raise a limper if I have position. I will beat him on the flop.
I will come in with a raise or fold.
I prefer a pot sized bet to a shove. I make pot sized bets for any raise to let opponent know if he wants a piece of this pot it is gonna cost him.
So to answer your question: There is too much limping and shoving.

 

[najisami]

I agree with what you pointed out and if I may, I'll add one common mistake I see all the time in those tourneys :
When a player has a big pair (JJ or better), they just keep betting (or calling) all the way to the river and don't hesitate calling a shove. They just can't fold their ONE single pair no matter what the board is.

 

[odonob]

Yes a single pair is often a loser. Even 2 pair is often dangerous. Another bad play is not to bet with 2 pair on the flop. Just asking for trouble just checking from there. Straights often come after a set up like that. Have done it myself too often.

 

[Zorba]

2 CCr's come to mind immediately. :ciao:
Limping in 99% of the time.

Limping in with any two cards oop 99% of the time.

Limping UTG and UTG+1 with any two cards.

The all in shoves like Roger said for a 50 chip pot are amusing, being a freeroll, I'll take shots calling players like that with the top end of my range.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Failing to deposit money onto the online sites.

 

[GeckoAA]

When a person first plays a CC Freeroll its easy to think that they are just like any other freeroll and then play the all-in shove fest style but a person will soon realize that they are not like that at all. Those who have been playing CC games for a while take a lot of pride in treating the CC freerolls as a higher stakes type tournaments. To win is a very prestigious honour and I think thats more important to the CC folks than the actual prize is. So thats a game changer for freerolls. I know when I first started here, that was my biggest mistake .

 

[BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch]

The all in jam preflop when the blinds/pot is low. I see this a lot.
I think this is a big mistake for the following reasons.
1. You are risking usually 2000 to 3000 chips to gain less than 50 to 100. The risk return here is way to out of line. Also you failed to maximize the amount of chips you could have gained.
2. If called you are probably way behind or at best risking your tournament life on a flip before the tournament has even really started. Or maybe the caller is just looking to get lucky and maybe he will.
3. The winner of the tournament is never determined in the first levels and the winner is not the player that wins the most hands its the player that wins the most chips.
I remember a tournament I was in it was level 1 and about 400 players were in. One guy jumps up and yells "Yes I just tripled up". He didn't get ITM he didn't even make it to the second break.

You make absolute sense on a lot of your post here and I really like your emphasis on someone's chip count to the blinds of a tournament over their holding but you have to remember who you are addressing and what you are playing.

I haven't played the Card Chat freerolls but I've played holdem for awhile online and live and if you're in late position with 1 or 2 limpers and NOT like something where the whole stupid table is limping and you're comfortable with going out early in a tourn then I would suggest shoveling with kk aa, AND NOT WITH A DRAWING HAND LIKE AK, AQ ETC. BIG Emphasis on being in late position and not early position where everyone calls and you can just turn off the computer off.

I say this because what would they call you with? It would be a lesser pair or with less experienced folks would be suited connectors. If you're really lucky then they call you with ax or if you've got kk then kx or whatever.

Rule of thumb and you can go play around with an odds calculator if you have an over pair to them against one person its like 85/15% to win. If there are 2 ppl then you subtract another 15% from your odds and give that 15% to the third caller so you have like a 70% chance to win with 2 limpers each taking 15% chance to win and so forth and so forth. So the odds are greatly in your favor in late position with not a lot of folks.

And the other thing is what are you going to win in the early part of the tourn with blinds so low? And what will you bet on the flop? 1/3, 2/3, or full pot of a miniscule pot?? And if you have someone that can fold top pair with a bad kicker/mediocre kicker for example if someone is playing low suited cards and they hit but the board is wet and they can get away from it then its almost as if you weren't dealt a premium hand at all since you made almost nothing and that would be a HUGE HOLE in someone's game not being able to bank when dealt those premium hands.

So I agree with you for the most part but there are instances where a shove or playing big pots is valid early on and you could use the odds calculator here at card chat or at card player to validate your thesis. But you gotta accept villains getting lucky on you and accepting the consequences and move on but its a lot easier to get over bad beats when its a freeroll!!!

 

[micalupagoo]

I think most important things have been said,
Winners don't shove 90bbs into a 2bb pot,
Winners don't call a PP til Allin on a wet flop or against crazy reraises ,
Today's PS CC $300 game I folded AJ suited after my PF 3bet and flop Cbet on an Axx dry flop (no straight or flush draws)
Because of a reraise and a shove, trips beat 2 pair, I would have been out of the game...
People value cards too much or think they can bluff players that don't fall for it.
If I call, you're beat or extremely lucky on the river
I always believe a lucky person who makes the wrong calls still won't win as often as an unlucky player who makes the right calls

 

[Roller]

Mistakes CC players most commonly make in the freerolls, not sure if their are mistakes per say. Many players play the freerolls for different reasons and a wide range of focus or concentration on the games and play. That being said taking them to serious may be the most common mistake.

 

[roger perkins]

I agree with what you pointed out and if I may, I'll add one common mistake I see all the time in those tourneys :
When a player has a big pair (JJ or better), they just keep betting (or calling) all the way to the river and don't hesitate calling a shove. They just can't fold their ONE single pair no matter what the board is.

I totally agree with you. Often people can't accept the fact that they are beat or that they think maybe I'll get lucky. With JJ or better you should have come in for a raise or reraise so that anyone calling you should at least have a decent calling hand so the flop should dictate what you should do. If the flop comes in under jacks and rainbow I then at least bet pot and maybe shove there, If a Q K or A comes or a flush or str8 possibility then I or anyone should proceed with caution and even fold to a big bet.

Yes a single pair is often a loser. Even 2 pair is often dangerous. Another bad play is not to bet with 2 pair on the flop. Just asking for trouble just checking from there. Straights often come after a set up like that. Have done it myself too often.

The 2 pair on the flop I agree bet at least 3/4 pot and take the win right there or make the villain pay to see the turn. Then proceed to the river with caution. Unless the 2 pair includes a pair on the board.

I don't like limping and will raise a limper if I have position. I will beat him on the flop.
I will come in with a raise or fold.
I prefer a pot sized bet to a shove. I make pot sized bets for any raise to let opponent know if he wants a piece of this pot it is gonna cost him.
So to answer your question: There is too much limping and shoving.

2 CCr's come to mind immediately. :ciao:
Limping in 99% of the time.

Limping in with any two cards oop 99% of the time.

Limping UTG and UTG+1 with any two cards.

The all in shoves like Roger said for a 50 chip pot are amusing, being a freeroll, I'll take shots calling players like that with the top end of my range.

Agreeing with both of you way way too many people limp just to see what the flop might bring. If I'm in late position with a marginal/drawing hand and 3+ have limped in front of me I may just limp in also but I have to hit the flop real hard to even consider post flop play, or if everyone checks the flop then it may be time to pot bet and possibly steal the pot or just check it down depending on the players in the pot and the notes I have on them.

When a person first plays a CC Freeroll its easy to think that they are just like any other freeroll and then play the all-in shove fest style but a person will soon realize that they are not like that at all. Those who have been playing CC games for a while take a lot of pride in treating the CC freerolls as a higher stakes type tournaments. To win is a very prestigious honour and I think thats more important to the CC folks than the actual prize is. So thats a game changer for freerolls. I know when I first started here, that was my biggest mistake .

CC freerolls are a different animal. They are not like the common 1000 entries where you may win very small change. Most of the players here do take pride in their play in the CC freerolls.

Mistakes CC players most commonly make in the freerolls, not sure if their are mistakes per say. Many players play the freerolls for different reasons and a wide range of focus or concentration on the games and play. That being said taking them to serious may be the most common mistake.

Here is where I disagree with you I take every game I play seriously. I play everything to win. I don't look at any game by what I have invested in them to play, I look at the final payouts so a CC freeroll to me is a $20 game because that is what I will not gain if I don't win. The price of entry should never effect your play even in a $1000 dollar entry I play the same as a $10 entry. The only tournament that effects my play is a satellite where all ITM is the same.

 

[alien666dj]

I notice mistakes like poor preflop, postflop play, lack of open raises, frequent limps, poor understanding of push-fold strategy.

 

[garibe]

Rather have them keep doing all of it.

Its better for the players that are actually trying to learn or do understand a bit of mtts.

Will you suck out against them? Pretty much, Just keep applying the best strategy and adapt accordingly. These players are actually a really good challenge.

Limps. some exaggeration but All CC ACR players are limping in any position. The "good" and "bad" players altogether. Shameful, but good. Keep doing it.

Allins early game - Please keep doing it.

 

[CDNMAN 42]

Jamming etc

I agree with what you pointed out and if I may, I'll add one common mistake I see all the time in those tourneys :
When a player has a big pair (JJ or better), they just keep betting (or calling) all the way to the river and don't hesitate calling a shove. They just can't fold their ONE single pair no matter what the board is.

Yes I agree here in fact I know I have been guilty of this myself even though zI try to be a little more disciplined and fold when I know it is over...I also encounter a lot of players?? that will continue calling to the river if they have any part of the board...I guess their logic is everyone else is always bluffing

 

[najisami]

Yes I agree here in fact I know I have been guilty of this myself even though zI try to be a little more disciplined and fold when I know it is over...I also encounter a lot of players?? that will continue calling to the river if they have any part of the board...I guess their logic is everyone else is always bluffing

Actually you reminded me of a part I've forgotten to mention. It's the fact that I myself have done it many times in the past. It was just very difficult for me to fold AA or KK facing a shove or a huge bet on the river. But after getting hit by the bad news and losing tons of money, I realized that one pair, no matter how big is still just one pair...

 

[Risto234]

When a person first plays a CC Freeroll its easy to think that they are just like any other freeroll and then play the all-in shove fest style but a person will soon realize that they are not like that at all. Those who have been playing CC games for a while take a lot of pride in treating the CC freerolls as a higher stakes type tournaments. To win is a very prestigious honour and I think thats more important to the CC folks than the actual prize is. So thats a game changer for freerolls. I know when I first started here, that was my biggest mistake .

There is obviously more than enough smart people (here) who after playing these games for a while still dont treat them as "higher stake type tournament" though ...

 

[daddybrooks]

Failure to take advantage of note taking. The fields tend to consist of the same folks, tourney after tourney. If you note betting patterns that tend to point to bluffs or good hands, the players would tend to NOT get into bad positions against either the loose players that go all in on draws or the tight players who milk them with monsters.

 

[Justcall529]

Lots of freeroll players play way too many hands. Patience is a virtue.

 

[fundiver199]

The all in jam preflop when the blinds/pot is low. I think this is a big mistake

In regular tournaments absolutely yes, unless your opponents are so incredibly bad, that you can just open ship premium hands and still get at least one caller most of the time. But freerolls are very different, because its impossible to lose, and people can have other legitimate goals than maximizing their EV in each freeroll.

For instance it can make a ton of sense to try to maximize your hourly winrate instead, and if you have this approach, you actually want to take high variance spots, that are slightly negative EV, because then you spend less time for each dollar, you win. In there was an unlimited supply of freerolls, this would actually be the only strategy, that made sense. And if you look at it that way, its not a disaster to open ship KJs and get called by AQo, because 41% of the time you dubble up, and the other 59% of the time you are done and spend no more time on the freeroll.

Not saying, that people open shipping KJs for 35 bigs are thinking about it on this level. Most likely they are just playing for fun, and some might even enjoy tilting more "serious" players. But if you are often getting called, and you dont do it with total garbage hands, it can actually be a viable strategy to drive up your hourly winrate.

Of course it does not help you to learn how to play "good poker" and beat normal games. But then again this is also not the goal, everyone has with playing freerolls. In fact its probably only a very small minority, who have this goal. The vast majority either play for fun or to get their share of the free money being offered to them.

 

[Alexey Shley]

When playing a freeroll, the first mistake is gaining momentum among newbies, including myself, this is all in the excitatory stage preflop. The second mistake is the underestimation of opponents, because when playing in freerolls, many people think that they are playing with freerolls who simply play at random. Of course, this is a great opportunity to experience and enjoy the game with friends.

 

[akmost]

There are many good players in CC freerolls but the vast majority of them play only freerolls. If you don't ever play for real money you will never forced to study a tittle bit.

The mistakes I have noticed so far are similar with yours:

-Too much open limping with any two cards , not solid starting hands.
-Not awareness of the board texture / range advantage.
-Not awareness of the dynamic of the table / phase / line up , some players insist in playing only their strong hands.
-My favorite : donk betting vs early position open raise in dry boards / play out of position a lot -Small Blind- with any two. (I mean they will hit some times the jackpot but in the long run they lose).
-Open jam 150bbs? I guess those players will play with the same strategy in a paid game? Not!

Just my observations , I don't criticize anything or anyone here. It's a freeroll and every player participates for his own reason.

My only objection though is for the CC regulars who play for many years and they keep struggling and they don't understand basic strategy. You dedicate your energy and your time to the game and you are part of this wonderful community. If you have questions about your game just ask ,create threads with questions or spots, you will feel more comfortable at the tables and believe me by having good fundamentals you will win the real money games too.

Have fun everyone!

 

[vonabruch]

*****
At the beginning of a tournament, I often encounter inadequate all-ins and huge bets. Some players will push any two cards, others will try to play against loose all-ins with Broadway cards, etc.
****
*****
I also think that the participants limp a lot, I believe that any opening is only a raise, also the players in the position of BTN and SB do not steal, do not steal the big blind, but just call and allow you to watch the flop for the big blind for almost free

 

[CaptainXL]

I will sometimes raise or even call all in with a single ace and a decent kicker early in a freeroll. I like playing freerolls so I don’t usually do it, but if I’m at a table with much raising and calling all in the odds may actually favor it. Once I get platinum back I can always play tomorrow.

 

[nuttea]

Ok this is a thread to discuss what I or You see in the play of our fellow CC freeroll players. This is not to point out any particular players but to hopefully help your and my game.
Common Mistakes as I/You see them. Agree or Disagree I/You may see things different so lets discuss.

The all in jam preflop when the blinds/pot is low. I see this a lot.

I think this is a big mistake for the following reasons.

1. You are risking usually 2000 to 3000 chips to gain less than 50 to 100. The risk return here is way to out of line. Also you failed to maximize the amount of chips you could have gained.

2. If called you are probably way behind or at best risking your tournament life on a flip before the tournament has even really started. Or maybe the caller is just looking to get lucky and maybe he will.

3. The winner of the tournament is never determined in the first levels and the winner is not the player that wins the most hands its the player that wins the most chips.
I remember a tournament I was in it was level 1 and about 400 players were in. One guy jumps up and yells "Yes I just tripled up". He didn't get ITM he didn't even make it to the second break.

Few folded For example, you limp a lot and always call someone's raise after that. Or here's another case. There was a raise, you called, and after you there was another raise and you call again. Such a game will not lead to any good. If you have cards in your hand with which you certainly want to enter the drawing, you can do this by raising. Otherwise, just play a pass and wait for the card you want. Patience and discipline must always be present at the poker table along with aggression in order to achieve the required profit.

 

[mardi1987]

Ok this is a thread to discuss what I or You see in the play of our fellow CC freeroll players.

Players participating in the CC freeroll play differently from room to room. It also depends on the level of the game. At the bronze games you can see everything (eg GG) while on platinum ACR they play completely differently. I mention those two rooms since I played them lately ... There are a lot of players on GG who push any two, What I played on ACR is not the case (I mean the platinum game). But for those three mistakes you listed, I totally agree.