CC Stars Friday donkament (5 Jan 07) w/expert donk commentary (all 3 parts+notes up)

  • Thread starter Dorkus Malorkus
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Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
lol hi

http://rapidshare.com/files/10485312/donkamentpt1of3.rar.html <-- part 1
http://rapidshare.com/files/10490202/donkamentpt2of3.rar.html <-- part 2
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TVMUAHMY <-- part 3

(All three videos play separately. Part one is the first 30 mins, part two the second 30 mins up to break, and part three is the rest)

Sorry about my occasional coughing and generally broken voice - coming off the back end of a Xmas/New Year cold will do that to ya. This was pretty fun though - might do it again if people enjoy it enough.

Any problems with downloading/viewing just let me know yo. Download and extract, if you're using WMP you might need to download the XVid codec to play the file.

I'm gonna watch it all once it's uploaded (I've only actually reviewed 10 mins or so of it), and post some notes here later.

---

Part 1 - notes

0:30-1:15 - tenbob lays down QQ. I sounded sceptical at the time that he had QQ, but on reflection I don't see why anyone would want to say they are laying down QQ there if they didn't have QQ. It's also a good fold - this is discussed in a thread over in Hand Analysis somewhere.

3:55-4:15 - I think this is all pretty standard.

5:55-6:30 - I know I said "brutus is representing that the flop helped him", but I think his most likely holding is something like 88 here that wants to see where it stands. It's possible he is leading with K-something though, I haven't played with brutus much so can't really say whether he would generally lead or c/r with K-something on that flop.

7:20-7:40 - Raising preflop is probably ideal but I don't mind checking occasionally with something like AT when I'm playing players who I've played with often, just for a little deceptive value. I don't think I necessarily "have to raise" the flop here, but Welly is a pretty aggressive player, and I hate life if a K/Q/J/heart falls on the turn and he bets again (which he's capable of doing with lots of hands).

7:55-9:15 - I think this hand is really odd - Ron, if you're trapping you're not really fooling anyone and you're probably giving a free card. If you're not trapping and have a weak hand, what was the limp-small reraise preflop (which gave Tammy odds to call with anything reasonable as I said) all about?

9:35-10:25 - I really like my play in this hand. I think my pf call is fine (not a big fan at all of Welly's pfr with K8o at 10/20 though, which I didn't pick up on because I was too busy feeling smug obviously). By the river I'm convinced he either has a huge hand or nothing at all, as I said Q-someting just seems unreasonable here, and as discounting Q-something removes a huge number of holdings from the range to which I was behind, I'm happy to "pay his bet off".

10:55-11:00 - For the second hand in a row I get A9, but this time I fold. I hope everyone can see the difference this time, and not just that it isn't sooooted (6 active players left in the hand, short stack is raising, I'm not guaranteed position etc).

11:50 - brutus, you limp too much. ;)

13:30-13:55 - What's with all the weak raises guys? 3bb raise after a limp (which I picked up on), and an 8bb total reraise after that (which I didn't)? WEAKSAUCE!

19:55-20:20 - Jessie, why shove 560 to win 45 with AJ when you're only getting called by a hand that crushes you? Make a standard raise, or just fold (if you're shoving because you really don't want to play the hand postflop, just fold it) - both are okay but the shove isn't. I ummed and ahhed about the call with AQ for a while but on reflection I think it's fine, in fact I think folding it would be pretty bad.

21:55-22:40 - Raise the flop if you're brutus? I'm not sure. I don't like the preflop limp with K9, which I didn't pick up on.

25:10-26:05 - Oh God I missed this hand totally and I hate a lot of things about it (including the fact that I missed it). Limp-calling UTG with 65s is bad. I don't like the UTG+1 raise with AT either though it's not awful. brutus' turn bet is weak, there's a case for Anno raising the turn because no river card will really 'help' brutus and lead to him dumping you more chips if he thinks you have an Ace. The call isn't bad though, especially considering (results-oriented alarm!) that it induced a bet which really shouldn't have been on the river (brutus should probably check-call the river).

27:40-28:25 - My comments on TB UTG raising were twinged with sarcasm 'cos of a couple of past experiences, but are probably best taken at face value in this situation. brutus (oh god i hope you dont see this i'm ragging on your play so much :(), you can't call a UTG raise with AT. You just can't. What's raising UTG that your AT is beating? Of course the bad preflop call leads to having horrible dcisions to make later in the hand which concludes the big slippery slide to busto.

Part 2 - notes

3:50-4:20 - I can't see any possible holding Anno can have that makes the twice the pot overbet a good play.

4:55-5:50 - From the moment Anno says he has AK he's obviously intending to fold. I think the decision of what to do after TB's reraise is really awkward, I don't mind the fold. I talk about JJ/TT a bit but actually it's pretty irrelevant how many coinflipping hands he raises with as we're only really concerned about what we're way ahead of that the repops with and what we're way behind that he repops with. I was just thinking aloud. :)

10:10-11:05 - If you had AQ Anno, you have to shove over the top preflop. Sticker's preflop raising range from the button is huge and includes a lot of Ax hands we're dominating, and some low pairs he'll fold to the shove with. Calling is really weak. I like Welly's play a lot - I don't know if he has a huge hand to back it up with (I'd imagine he at least has a reasonable hand - although sometimes it can be correct to pull this move with air I think Welly's short stack and the fact that the other two in the hand have him decently outchipped dictates that he has to have something he feels is worth pushing here). AQ has to call the shove, too - I only said "I'm sure Anno is folding" because I didn't expect him to flat call with a hand as strong as AQ.

12:40-13:45 - I think everything is fine here except the preflop limp with KT, which I didn't pick up on. Anno, you said in the chat just a few minutes before you "weren't ready to gamble yet", by limping KT in early position that's precisely what you are doing.

19:15-19:40 - My pf check is really bad. Welly showing and giving me free info is really bad.

21:25-22:20 - This is really hideous and I think I explain why well enough on the vid. Ron, what on earth did you have that's worth (a) calling with and not shoving over the top with or folding preflop, (b) calling the flop as opposed to shoving or folding and leaving yourself with 8bbs in front, and (c) folding the turn? I'm guessing 88-55, maybe TT, but with any of these hands I'm happy to shove preflop - in the hand as played you called off half of your stack, which is awful. I often come across people who are just terrified of busting from tournaments, and will happily check and call their stack down to nothing rather than just shove it in at the first opportunity. This is just plain wrong and these players are weak - you have to pump up the aggression in these spots.

23:50-24:10 - I think the decision here is really close, but on reflection I think that it's probably a shove with the A9s and my fold is bad. We have fold equity and are ahead of Welly's CO raising range (which includes any Ace among other things).

24:35-25:15 - This hand is such a trainwreck. Ron, shove preflop. AK is not strong enough to slowplay, and you do not have enough chips to feasibly slowplay in any case. Just shove.

26:55-27:15 - I was unsure at the time, but I like my shove here on the basis that it's the lesser of four evils.

Part 3 - notes


1:15-1:35 - I'd much prefer a raise preflop with 33 than the limp first in. The blind:stack ratios are too big to be limping for set value now.

1:50-2:25 - Stickerman should shove ATs as opposed to making a standard raise, but I'd greatly prefer just folding it UTG+1. Obviously he has to call when Kenzie raises.

4:00-4:25 - I'm not sure about the call with ATs - I think it's a little more reasonable than I made it out to be in the commentary but it's still very marginal. I guess I'm shoving weaker Aces or hands like KQ there though, so it's okay. That being said, if you are going to play it you have to raise over the top to isolate - calling is bad.

6:25-6:40 - Limping is bad. Naughty list!

7:00-7:40 - THIS IS A REALLY WEAK FOLD BY ME MMMKAY. Seriously, list has started limping a bit so it doesn't mean anything - it's almost as if I'd been folded to with 150 extra in the pot, that's how confident I am on reflection that he folds if we shove (calling is bad because of short stacks/no implied odds obviously). That said from a results-oriented view it was obv an awesome fold. :eek: Obv the JJ and KK's plays are fine.

11:20-11:55 - I think this hand is fine. After Tammy shoves (which is obviously correct), Kenzie is getting over 2:1 and has ten times Tammy's stack so he can justifiably call the shove pretty much no matter what he's raised with, and raising from the button with Q9 is fine. So nice play all round, despite the chat afterwards. :)

15:40-16:30 - Weak fold?

19:40-20:00 - TB said this was a misclick after the event so I won't berate him. :(

20:55-21:15 - list, just shove first time around.

21:45-22:00 - I think this is a weak fold by me. One thing I didn't pick up on is that the bubble has just burst and it's only natural for players (especially with shorter stacks) to now loosen up. So I don't think holdin2s' range is as narrow as I actually thought it was at the time, and on reflection I should probably shove there, though it's close.

22:10-22:45 - Preflop call with Q8 OOP is very iffy. Of course all the chips are going in on the flop.

23:55-24:40 - I have more fold equity than I thought here (Welly is only getting ~1.5:1 on a call if I shove), but I still think folding is just about okay.

25:00-25:30 - LOL FLOPPEDQUADSAMENTS. Welly limping UTG with 11bbs with what obviously was a marginal hand is bad, especially after I'd started coming over the top a couple of hands ago. Kenzie's call with A8s is fine on reflection.

28:40-29:10 - The minraise is really bad here because I have odds and the stack to be justified in calling with with any two. Thus, it accomplishes nothing.

29:20-30:15 - HELP WHAT DO I DO

36:10-36:35 - Oh god this is really bad. Preflop minraise is bad - just shove preflop, you dont want to induce action with A6s. Shove with 66 is fine - the call with A6s I think is just on the 'fold' side of borderline but what you absolutely cannot do is instantly call without giving it a second's thought. That's really, really horrid.

39:45-40:10 - Calling off your stack with 33? What are you beating? ACHACHACACHACHACAHCCAHCHACHACHKKKACKACGH
 
Last edited:
AnnoDomino

AnnoDomino

Visionary
chris, in another thread you say the 'vid' would be up soon

i only get sound, should there be some graphics? tuff-fish style?

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AnnoDomino

AnnoDomino

Visionary
that is brilliant!

so interesting to hear someone elses take on the same game

especially your comments on the big hands i was involved in, three close together hands took me from one of the chip leaders to short stack:

1. i raised 4x to 200 with AK, tenbob re-raised to 650, i folded, thought its get involved or fold, no need to gamble i have a good stack

2. called a 4x (200) raise pre flop with AQ, then welly went all-in (1200 odd) i folded for the same reason as above, u said i should have raised with AQ

3. raised the flop 4x (200) with top pair 10 10, k kicker, welly went all in, having said i wasn't ready to gamble, thought welly didnt have it, couldn't resist it and called, lost most of my chips to a runner runner straight, u didnt know what to make of that, lol
 
S

stealthy1

Rock Star
I just watched all the vids this evening. Good viewing and great commentary. Interesting to hear someones view on a game.

Good work!
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
do i have too join something to download these,? i can do anything.

Nah.

rapidshare - click the "free" button at the bottom right, wait for the timer to run, enter the code as prompted and hit "ok" or "enter" or whatever the button says.

megaupload (i had to put the third file up here as it was just over the 100mb limit on rs) - enter the code, hit "download", wait for the timer to run and hit "click here to download"
 
pocketTWOs

pocketTWOs

Rock Star
i had to download some win file to extract it, and i did,
funny that i got it upside down, lol.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
ty for your kind words *blush*

Notes to Part 1 added to the OP.
 
Sammyv1

Sammyv1

Legend
Excellent Job Chris. :D I finally had the time to watch it all! Your commentary and skills are great. I would vote for more also.

If I were able to do this, there would have to be a sensorship button somewhere!:eek:
 
Welly

Welly

Guest
3. raised the flop 4x (200) with top pair 10 10, k kicker, welly went all in, having said i wasn't ready to gamble, thought welly didnt have it, couldn't resist it and called, lost most of my chips to a runner runner straight, u didnt know what to make of that, lol

Havent watched the video yet (comes up as 'page not found' :()

After the board was dealt on this one I remember thinking 'I bet he thinks he has just had a bad beat'. It seems I was right Anno :p .

For me it fell under 33&40 rule, meaning I was very confident of at least 60% equity. In reality I am even way way stronger.

I have enough chips behind me to induce a fold (lets say in 33% of occassions).

I was absolutely certain you had the 10. (ranging JT to AT). Therefore I know from the remaining equity I probably have to play catch up (drawing to flush, any 7, any 8, backdoor str). In fact if your KT doesnt contain a club I am even a raw favourite for this hand, even without the induced fold equity.

As it happens, your hand contains a club, so as it pans out the following is true :-

I am favourite for the hand as long as my raise can induce the fold in 6% of all instances. Obviously this is the case at a TAG table with player having to find 1215 more from 200 with TP only on a low board.

IE (to summerize)
My 33&40 is actually 0&52.8 (if you dont have a club, maybe to your amazement)
My 33&40 is actually 6&47.3 (if you do hold a club)


Without the benefit of hearing the video, I'll just have to assume that Chris is on top of this analysis in real time in his commentary :eek: .
 
AnnoDomino

AnnoDomino

Visionary
welly

i'm sure you realise my play is recreational

as i've said before, part of me wishes i understood the analysis type stuff above and the rest of me is glad i don't

my take on the hand was pretty much as i described it, i didnt think you had a made hand and i gambled, which was funny to me coz i had resisted the temptation just prior with the AK and AQ

i understand enough to realise it was not a 'bad beat', the backdoor straight was one of your outs

did it 'feel' like a bad beat? hell yeah! ;-)

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brutus

brutus

Legend
27:40-28:25 - My comments on TB UTG raising were twinged with sarcasm 'cos of a couple of past experiences, but are probably best taken at face value in this situation. brutus (oh god i hope you dont see this i'm ragging on your play so much :(), you can't call a UTG raise with AT. You just can't. What's raising UTG that your AT is beating? Of course the bad preflop call leads to having horrible dcisions to make later in the hand which concludes the big slippery slide to busto.

i was kicking myself the rest of the day over my play on this hand. this was certainly my bonehead move. deserve all the ragging lol.

enjoyed this very much and hope you do this again.
 
Kenzie 96

Kenzie 96

Legend
Awards
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Chris, thanks so much for doing this. Excellent job. Very informative. My biggest shock was that one as technologically challenged as I could download all this.
 
Tammy

Tammy

Moderator
Moderator
Awards
10
Apparently my computer can't open a .rar file...help for the completely inept and clueless? :( :D
 
Tammy

Tammy

Moderator
Moderator
Awards
10
Yay! Thank you sir! I got to that site, and hadn't a clue what I was supposed to download (but thanks anyway, Joose ;) ). Was able to watch part 1 last night...superb, I must say! Will probably DL the rest and watch them over the next few days. + Rep darling! :)
 
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