Calling all in with QQ in satellite

[Amanda A]

So I'm down under visiting the family and gave the Aussie millions satellite (3 steps) a whirl. I bought in for $60 to step one and made it through to step 2 (1 in 5 makes it through). So that was a great feeling! Later that day I played step 2. In step 2 you start with 3000 in chips and I was at about 6000, blinds were 300, 600 so I had 10 bigs and was looking for a spot to shove. It was probably down to around 50 players left from about 117 and about 25 would get tickets to step three. I'd been playing for almost 2 hours and there was probably between 30mins to an hour to go. I look down at my best hand of the day, including the step 1 satellite, - pocket Queens. I'm in middle position and thinking - good I've got nice cards to shove with. Then someone in early position shoves for around the same size stack as me, a little more actually. Ahhh, I hate calling all ins in spots like this for all my chips. I also always seem to lose with QQ, but still it's a great starting hand and I'm trying to be rational and I'm trying not to let my past history with QQ effect my future play! I'm looking at him to see if I can read how strong he is, do I think he has AA or KK? Hmmm... honestly not sure, but don't think so if I had to guess. They count down my 10 seconds to 3 and I shove all in. He turns over AK and I'm good until the river when and A falls. That's the end of my Aussie millions adventure for this year. So sad. Did I do the right thing calling this shove with Queens? I know AA and KK is a definite call but I think QQ is also ahead of his range. He was a pretty tight player though. I think I did the right thing but would love to know what people think.

 

[pescaofish]

In my limited experience, I will call, QQ migth be the best hand you will have to play.
What happens after the bet, is only: Poker, "Variance" :call2:

 

[ph_il]

Unless this player is a super nit and is only playing KK+, this is a super standard call.

Even if they're a tight player and opening with only JJ+ AKs, you still have 42% equity.

Think of it this way: youre short stacked and need a double up to even have a chance to make the top 25. With 50 players still in and only 10 BBs, you aren't going to get a ton of opportunities to get your money in with a hand as strong as QQ. If they have KK+, its a cooler. Your call is still good.

Blinds still go up, your BB total still goes down. Other than KK+, what hands are you willing to get in for less BBs and less equity pre if not with QQ?

Dont be afraid to take necessary risks when you have a big hand. You will bust out at times, but the reward is so much more worth the risk.

How much better of a position to finish in top 25 are you in if you double up to 20 BBs + blinds/antes 40% of the time, than you are if you (for example) are forced to get it in for 5 BBs with A4s and only 20% equity?

You got it in good. Unlucky results. Don't let this affect your future decisions.

 

[playinggameswithu]

With 10BB i'd snap shoved if you lose it is just destiny to lose you had nothing to win. Its a coin flip they are dangerous and to be avoided but you likely could have had a 70% to 30% which isnt great but you are at 10BB so there is not much of a discussion. Did you calculate how much you would have to have won to get a ticket? Seems like you were still off.

 

[hugh blair]

10 big blind shoves are weaker then QQ most of the time easy call unless folding guarantees you a ticket.
Blinds will probably wipe you out before get a better hand to play.

 

[jbear54321]

I would have called too. If someone with a short stack goes all in I usually assume that they're making their last stand with any face card.

 

[blueskies]

Easy call.

You went down swinging. Can't ask for more.

 

[Amanda A]

Thanks everyone for your advice, I just hate calling all ins and this player was pretty tight so I thought he had a pretty good hand, and of course I'd much rather be first one in, but yeah sometimes you just got to call it. I also realize in the first saty I played that 10 bigs isn't that bad I mean when there are super short stacks and you are getting close to getting a ticket to the next phase you don't want to be shoving/calling with 10 bigs. Also cause I think my table image was pretty tight, so I was thinking maybe it is better to shove in late position into an unopened pot and pick up some chips, than to call an all in and risk elimination. But at the end of the day QQ was too strong. Couldn't live with myself if I folded. I might have folded JJ though. Thoughts on JJ?

 

[EL1t1]

yeah its a must call since money is far away and folding wont get you into the money(ticket), with this double up you would've potentially be safe to fold till the money or very close to it, in most cases u are either ahead or flipping and for 10bbs with queens u gotta take this spot u wont get much better spots, JJ is a call aswell for sure, its just 10 bbs as i said you wont find much better spots, if it were few people till the money then you can fold but yeah as its still far from the money gotta call and if you double up just play super tight and probably make it into the money

 

[ChickenArise]

In the less than I year I have been back playing tournament poker online I have folded QQ pre flop once. That one time I felt my opponent wouldnt be reraising me with anything less based on our previous and recent interaction, and it would have risked my tournament life. Both conditions have to be true to consider folding.

I have determined it is a very rare event that you should consider folding QQ pre flop. I would love to see a counter argument that is well construcred. I dont think it exists. If I were to fold all QQ I would miss a lot more double ups than knockouts.

As far as JJ goes, I folded it correctly (or at least before I committed all of my chips just yesterday), JJ is not QQ.

Yet I have been knocked out with QQ a substantial amount of times (as well as yesterday) and also with KK to a lesser degree. I still dont think I am going to be folding many QQ or KK for that matter.

There is an interesting take that I have been told in tournament poker, you should be betting all in as opposed to calling all in and I believe there is some truth to this statement but it isnt 100% so you should just use this in general.

 

[tauri103]

Just because you have a pocket pair does not mean that you should automatically play that hand to win whatever happens. You have to try to control the size of the pot to manage the cases when an Ace or a King falls. on the flop. You can chain many winning moves, but lose everything on one mistake while you surely have the best preflop hand. Poker and especially the NoLimit HoldEm are a board game. Learn how to lay down your hands, even if they seem to be the best preflop.I know it's easier to say what to do even for me but sometimes we have not much choice because in the end it's always the flop dictating his law.

 

[ChickenArise]

Just because you have a pocket pair does not mean that you should automatically play that hand to win whatever happens. You have to try to control the size of the pot to manage the cases when an Ace or a King falls. on the flop. You can chain many winning moves, but lose everything on one mistake while you surely have the best preflop hand. Poker and especially the NoLimit HoldEm are a board game. Learn how to lay down your hands, even if they seem to be the best preflop.I know it's easier to say what to do even for me but sometimes we have not much choice because in the end it's always the flop dictating his law.

Thats all fine and well and highly advisable where possible, but how many QQ's are you folding to an all in bet PRE FLOP? And rather than say the obvious 'its situational', lets be real for a moment, tell us how many times have you actually folded this hand to an all in bet in the past year?

 

[kowrip]

You made a good choice. I would have done the same. You were at 10BB. The player shoving had around the same, so his range is fairly wide. Your QQ is ahead of everything except KK/AA. It's painful to lose like that on the river, but it was the right move.

 

[ph_il]

Just because you have a pocket pair does not mean that you should automatically play that hand to win whatever happens. You have to try to control the size of the pot to manage the cases when an Ace or a King falls. on the flop. You can chain many winning moves, but lose everything on one mistake while you surely have the best preflop hand. Poker and especially the NoLimit HoldEm are a board game. Learn how to lay down your hands, even if they seem to be the best preflop.I know it's easier to say what to do even for me but sometimes we have not much choice because in the end it's always the flop dictating his law.

• Control the pot size in all in situation?
• Folding big hands, especially hand that you should be getting in pre because you're afraid of losing is result oriented thinking. If you're looking to win, you need to get in +EV spots. Sometimes even in -EV spots.

 

[TheDude6622]

With 10BB i'd snap shoved if you lose it is just destiny to lose you had nothing to win. Its a coin flip they are dangerous and to be avoided but you likely could have had a 70% to 30% which isnt great but you are at 10BB so there is not much of a discussion. Did you calculate how much you would have to have won to get a ticket? Seems like you were still off.

Absolutely it's a shove. With 10BB you can't wait for someone better, you already have a pretty big pair. They could be making a move with AK and feel like they have AA.

 

[korneel]

I would also call this hand.
With 10BB left, you can't really expect to see something better before blinding out.
This step thing is really intriging. Is this at a casino? How often do they run?

 

[John Turnner]

In poker as in life: your decisions depend on your goals.
I changed my strategy Two month ago:
I'm trying to be the best at the table, and accumulate a maximum of chips. when my stack is less than 30bb then I’m ready to go all-in. when my stack is more than 32BB, then I will play carefully. what does it mean? I'm too lazy to explain sorry)))

 

[RiverLord90]

I would have called 100%.

You made the right call. Just had a cooler.

 

[crimsonblur]

Yeah i would make that call every time. His open shoving range at 11 bigs is waaay wider than QQ. If he had AA or KK I would be upset but still OK with the call.

 

[tauri103]

• Control the pot size in all in situation?
• Folding big hands, especially hand that you should be getting in pre because you're afraid of losing is result oriented thinking. If you're looking to win, you need to get in +EV spots. Sometimes even in -EV spots.

of course we can not control the pot in all situations but when possible it is strongly recommended.for my part I prefer not to put all my tournaments on a pair of QQ if I see that this is not not the right time for example because of the number of players who play the shot or the amount of preflop raises. The mathematical expectation is a very important parameter that must know every good poker player but to win and take a good place to pay that not enough.

 

[tauri103]

Thats all fine and well and highly advisable where possible, but how many QQ's are you folding to an all in bet PRE FLOP? And rather than say the obvious 'its situational', lets be real for a moment, tell us how many times have you actually folded this hand to an all in bet in the past year?

it's been only 6 months since I started playing poker after a long absence.I do not hold the accounts but during this lapse of time I have thrown this hand several times especially JJ .the last time it has me allowed me to rank 4th on the Cards Cat frerrolls because I had the lucidity to throw QQ preflop at the right time. there were only 40 players left and 2 players showed a lot of preflop strength when he used to play tight.In the end after the flop they left all-in.the 1st had KK and the 2nd has touched his AS.I thought I had made the right decision. losing a lot of my chips on this one would have been catastrophic especially at the end of tournaments. I'm not saying that it's easy to throw QQ preflop but sometimes it's a necessity.

 

[roger perkins]

In the situation you described it is an easy call IMO. It is a great starting hand and you are down to 10BB. If 2 people shove in front of me I still might even call. I think you did the correct move you just got rivered. Good luck in the future.

 

[Luvepoker]

I call every time here, With only 10BB and still so far away from the prize I am all in almost every time. The only time I would fold it here is if i had no reason to believe he only will shove here with Aces and lets be honest, there are not really many times you would be that certain. Sorry you lost on the river but that was the correct play.

 

[jofieloviedo]

Guess it was right

I think you did good cause QQ is a good hand maybe in that kind of situation would be better goo all in with KK or AA but I guess QQ is still really good and right now I'm not really sure but I guess QQ is better than AK and has more probabilities to win it was just bad luck the A falls in the river, besides that in tournaments is very common when players go all in with hand like A7s, or KJs, KQ sometimes players go all in wit TT so I do think you made the right decision in that hand.

One thing you should see was how many chips your opponent had at that moment and also pay attention on how many players made a call before the other player went all in so be careful with that and pay attention on players on the poker table, see their positions and how many chips they have.

 

[kowrip]

it's been only 6 months since I started playing poker after a long absence.I do not hold the accounts but during this lapse of time I have thrown this hand several times especially JJ .the last time it has me allowed me to rank 4th on the Cards Cat frerrolls because I had the lucidity to throw QQ preflop at the right time. there were only 40 players left and 2 players showed a lot of preflop strength when he used to play tight.In the end after the flop they left all-in.the 1st had KK and the 2nd has touched his AS.I thought I had made the right decision. losing a lot of my chips on this one would have been catastrophic especially at the end of tournaments. I'm not saying that it's easy to throw QQ preflop but sometimes it's a necessity.

With 10BB and a short-stack early position shove, I think you're in the minority if you'd fold QQ there. Unless you know for sure that the EP raiser is a ridiculously tight player (like AA/KK/QQ/AK only), you have to make this call.