Busting to coin flips in late stages of MTT

vadimcs1495

vadimcs1495

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Hello, I am new to this forum and this is my first post/thread. I was just wondering if anyone here could give me some advice on how they play the latter stages of a tournament. By this I mean when there is roughly 10-30 players left deep into a mtt. This is because (I am a winning player) I regularly make it this far, and a huge % of the time I seem to bust in this position. This is usually as a result of a coin toss, and I very rarely get it in behind. Should I be waiting for better spots? Am I just running quite bad? I don't really no the answer. I am fine playing early stages of a tournie and once I'm on final table my results are usually pretty good. Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.
 
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Criminal Bizzy

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To be honest if you are getting it in when you are ahead then its just a bad run of the cards. I have gotten it in when I am at least a 90% favorite to win and lose to runner runner.

If you are looking to improve your position in the tournament then I would suggest to study. Some things that you can do is:

  • Review hand history
  • Work on on reading hand ranges
  • Review your own opening ranges
  • Review your ranges for short handed games (6 or less)
  • Make notes on players
 
kowrip

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It's hard to avoid unless you happen to have a big chip stack. At that point in the tournament, lots of short stacks are going to be pushing all-in. You can avoid some of the coin flips, but at some point you will most likely need to win one. If getting eliminated that late in the tournament frustrates you, you can always play super aggressive from the start. That way, you will either bust out or have a very large chip stack.
 
pentazepam

pentazepam

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As stated earlier.

To win or place high in big MTTs you must often win several coin-flips. Since MTTs often are top heavy in the price structure you can't play to tight and just wait for hands.

You must embrace the fact that variance and luck in the later stages in a tournament is a big factor so if you get it in with around 50% or better be happy and sooner or later you will be winning some of them even in the later stages of the tournaments.

But you must be willing to die to win in tournaments as the saying goes. You can't play scared.
 
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I have been in a number of MTTs where I have reached the point you describe with 25-30 players. I usually find my self in the bottom one third from 20th to 30th. From here I have made more than a few final tables and have actually won a few. I did it by simply not playing my better hands the same way I did earlier. I pay much more attention to stack sizes and position. I will fold premium hands to all in shoves that will cost me my tournament life. I will occasionally shove pre-flop but only in late position where I think the blinds will fold. I attack players with mid-sized stacks who are trying to check/fold their way to the final table. And I will avoid playing against any monster stacks. When i adopt this strategy I can sit and watch others getting it in with a "good" hand only to lose the coin flip....these players take themselves out of the running without any effort on my part.
 
MattRyder

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I find the best strategy is to be lucky. Nothing else seems to work quite as well.
 
vadimcs1495

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thank you for all the advice. While playing tournaments, I tried to wait for a good hand, but was afraid to call Alin with KK preflop. I think that when playing tournaments you should approach the tournament as a work . losing once, and even twice in a row, a third time lucky;) I think so
P.s. my english may not be so good so sorry
 
Luvepoker

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Don't worry about the loosing at this point as it will always turn around. I have had streaks that are killers where you lose time after time but when variance goes your way look out and enjoy the ride.
 
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Guernica1974

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shortstacks!

to win a tournament you need to go allin preflop several times!

try build your stack stealing blinds, this late in tournaments you win them if you can steal sufficient amounts of blinds!

try get up against short stack or stacks that will let you stay in tournament for another allin. if players one-three spots left of you are conservative steal blinds and sometimes all in also on medium hand - most likely you will be 50/50 and if they are conservative they will fold a medium hand or less. if players left of you are short stack - never fold if rest of table fold - allways bet so players need to call and not just check!

its likely a wolf pack - you need to isolate the week players - shorthanded players and avoid battle with big stacks or multihands!
 
eurosTotnd

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i had the same problem as you i posted a thread about this , since then i opted for a new strategy since i am 15bb or less i choosed to call every agressive / large player all in with any pocket pair no matter the position in the table and fold small pockets 66-55-44.....to tight players when they shove all in
 
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To win tournament, you have to win your coin flips, and some times to fold your premium hands. When ever I found fold, I was on the final table, and win some tournaments
 
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fundiver199

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As many have said, this is just the reality of tournaments. Whoever win or run deep in a big MTT, is usually the guy who got most lucky in all-in situations or in coolering other players. There is no special way to play with 10-30 players, that differ from playing with 5-9 players or with 100 players. Its all about stack sizes, and who the opponents are. And when you are down to 10-30, they are mostly going to be relatively good.
 
Jon Poker

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Most of this has already been said but here is my 2 cents FWIW.

You already understand how to get to the deep stages if tournaments via your own description- so if you do not have one I would recommend a program like poker tracker 4 specifically for the purpose of storing your stats, results, and your hand histories. Reviewing your hands and sessions can be VITAL. I cannot express how much this will help you grow as a tournament player. We all do things in game that we may not find correct under review - the point is recognizing and correcting these spots so we start bettering our in game play and strategy.

Flips are essential in tournaments - you have to win a few to make the deeper runs and final tables. This is where a tracker program would come in handy - you need to look at your flips/all in situations and find out if you are making the right decisions. Maybe you're calling off a little light, maybe you are not calling off wide enough and you are playing too snugly. There are lots of charts, programs, information out there to help you better this aspect of your game.

Finally you have to understand the nature of MTTs and how they play out. Some of the BEST MTT players in the world cash in 20-25% of the games they play. Take that in for a second....the BEST players in the world are losing 75%+ in these things! So how do they make money then? Good bankroll management and by scoring big here and there. A top 3 finish should pay you nicely in most MTTs. So that being said, you should have yourself in the correct mindset to handle these games as they have the highest level of variance in the game.

So recap - mentally you need to br strong and understand how MTTs are going to play out most of the time. Secondly make sure your plays are correct, study, find out if you are playing correctly or not - which brings us to the 3rd - get a tracker program! You dont need the HUD to begin with, utilizing it to review your hand histories and log your stats will be hugely beneficial. The other features we can incorporate later.

One final piece of advice- even the most winningest players to date are not above study and learning how to improve their game. Take advice with a grain of salt and apply it as you may - but dont shut yourself out from others perspectives because you KNOW you are a winning player, that's just limiting your knowledge and soon enough the better player will leave you behind.
 
manusalford

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I have been in a number of MTTs where I have reached the point you describe with 25-30 players. I usually find my self in the bottom one third from 20th to 30th. From here I have made more than a few final tables and have actually won a few. I did it by simply not playing my better hands the same way I did earlier. I pay much more attention to stack sizes and position. I will fold premium hands to all in shoves that will cost me my tournament life. I will occasionally shove pre-flop but only in late position where I think the blinds will fold. I attack players with mid-sized stacks who are trying to check/fold their way to the final table. And I will avoid playing against any monster stacks. When i adopt this strategy I can sit and watch others getting it in with a "good" hand only to lose the coin flip....these players take themselves out of the running without any effort on my part.
best advise i think i have ever read im deffo gonna start using this stratagy
 
MK_

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I don't know, maybe post some hands so people can see what's happening, there are times when you can't just sit and wait til you think you are ahead, plenty of times you just need to get it in there, yes you need to win coin flips but if you are depending on winning too many coin flips maybe you are getting too short too much?, I don't know without more info, gl
 
GERSteven

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Hello,
my last FT a few days ago was a disaster! All premium hands were destroyed. I still have 1 photo here, but it doesn't show the end. My stack went up to 13M, but then nothing worked! What I want to say is that in the end you always need a little luck! I've tried everything possible but it always comes down to this in the end. Good luck for the future :)
 

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Igor Popadyk

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This is part of the game, you need to go through this psychologically and play more to smooth out the variance, if you believe in it
 
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Mib3653

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All true. Just got knocked out in 23rd of 175 in a $300 buy in. Had 105000 with 3,000 on the button. Lost first hand with JJ on the button. opened with10,000 only to face all in of 40,000 with BB holding AK. Called and lost to a flopped ace. Next hand in the SB I’m all in pre fop with KK. BB, big stack calls it off with Q10 off. Flop of Q,10,4 knocks me out. What do you do? Slam the fist, chuckle, high five the table and wait for the next tourney
 
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