Bankroll management for satellites and are they +EV at all?

Marcus_Trivinho

Marcus_Trivinho

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Hello,

I want to play recreationally big MTTs. But if I will buyin in big, I might be losing lot of money. So I thought could be worth to play satelites, satelites should have more fish maybe also?

And I have tried some, first it looked like good idea, I won ticket after playing few satelites of 16 players, 2 tickets in pool.

Yesterday I played lot of satelites and did not win a single ticket. Today for example, I played satelites which costed 1.88 and I finnally managed to win ticket to 1.1 usd MTT. Played like 12 satelites today. So not sure. Rake is also paid in satelites. Looks like I would have better bought in directly to MTT 1.1. Or was it just bad luck?

I have about 50 usd bankroll dedicated for MTTs. So directly buying in to 1.1 MTT is too agressive. But losing so much sateliites might also be too agressive BRM eeven if sat buy in is 50 cents or like today most of them 15 cents because I thought 50 cents buy for satelites will kill my bankroll soon.

So what do you recomend? Or not even play satelites to tournaments bigger than bankroll allows to directly buy in which would be sad, because I dont have so much time for poker to grind, and not motivation because I see easier money elsewhere.
 
F

fundiver199

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I have about 50 usd bankroll dedicated for MTTs. So directly buying in to 1.1 MTT is too agressive.

It is, and playing satellites does not really reduce the required bankroll, or at least not in a meaningfull way. If you want to have 100 bullets in the gun, that would be 110$ for 1,1$ MTTs. If you are a winning player, you will have a positive ROI in satellites, and therefore you can reduce it somewhat to maybe 80$ or 90$, if you always start with the satellite. But 50$ is still not enough, so with or without satellites you are only bankrolled for 50c MTTs at the moment.

So what do you recomend?

If you are already a proven winning player, then I recommend to deposit 500$ and play MTTs with a buyin of up to 5$. This is a good starting point, because you will have enough games to choose from, and the road to a meaningfull 4-figure or even 5-figure bankroll is not so long.

If you are not yet a proven winning player, then I recommend a 100$ deposit on PokerStars and then start to grind the 1$ 45 man SnG, as I am currently doing for fun in my challenge. These will not make you rich, but its to get practice and confirm, you are a winning player, before you start to put more serious money on the line.
 
Marcus_Trivinho

Marcus_Trivinho

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It is, and playing satellites does not really reduce the required bankroll, or at least not in a meaningfull way. If you want to have 100 bullets in the gun, that would be 110$ for 1,1$ MTTs. If you are a winning player, you will have a positive ROI in satellites, and therefore you can reduce it somewhat to maybe 80$ or 90$, if you always start with the satellite. But 50$ is still not enough, so with or without satellites you are only bankrolled for 50c MTTs at the moment.



If you are already a proven winning player, then I recommend to deposit 500$ and play MTTs with a buyin of up to 5$. This is a good starting point, because you will have enough games to choose from, and the road to a meaningfull 4-figure or even 5-figure bankroll is not so long.

If you are not yet a proven winning player, then I recommend a 100$ deposit on PokerStars and then start to grind the 1$ 45 man SnG, as I am currently doing for fun in my challenge. These will not make you rich, but its to get practice and confirm, you are a winning player, before you start to put more serious money on the line.


Yes bro, I agree with you, I think I'll follow your advice, because I may even know a little about the game but I don't know everything, and there are days I win and days I lose.

What would a proven winning player be to you?

And how do you manage your bank risk?:D
 
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fundiver199

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What would a proven winning player be to you?

Dubble digit positive ROI over a sample of at least 1.000 MTTs, and not only due to 1 major win.

And how do you manage your bank risk?

I generally stick with the 1% rule except for a very occational shot, and I keep my average buyin lower than 1%, because I play a spread of buyins. This is for MTTs though. For 45 man SnGs you can go a little bit more aggressive and of course also for 6-18 mans, if you find a site, where these have reasonable rake.
 
theANMATOR

theANMATOR

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A weird dichotomy with Sattys

Hello,

Today for example, I played satelites which costed 1.88 and I finnally managed to win ticket to 1.1 usd MTT. Played like 12 satelites today. So not sure. Rake is also paid in satelites. Looks like I would have better bought in directly to MTT 1.1. Or was it just bad luck?

So what do you recomend? Or not even play satelites to tournaments bigger than bankroll allows to directly buy in which would be sad, because I dont have so much time for poker to grind, and not motivation because I see easier money elsewhere.

I have a weird dichotomy with satellites. It seems more often than not - when I play in satellites - I end up not placing higher in buy-in events. On the days where I decide I am not going to play in any satellites - I end up making final table more often - and making larger returns on my investment - in buy-in events, that are not satellites.

I know this is crazy superstition, and not grounded in sound logic, but it seems to be the case.

Also - I quite dislike, with extreme prejudice - satellites with long rebuy periods. I'd prefer turbo satellites that last 1-2 hours max, but these seem not to exist on my preferred network.

Buy-in vs Satty - I only play satellites for events that are outside of my current bankroll buyin, and I will only play these maybe once or twice a week. And the buyin amount for the satty has to be quite low for me to even consider. I will play a 0.55 cent or 1.10 buyin satty - for a chance to win a 16.50 or 33.00 ticket into a 25 or 50k gtd. I will not play any sattys that only offer 1-2 tickets, I think this is just lighting money on fire, for everyone except the exceptional few. And I will not play any sattys that are 5% or more of my bankroll.
They have to be cheap for my current bankroll - they need to have a reasonable prize pool - say top 5 or 10 earn a ticket, and they have to be reasonable with respect to duration. That is my criteria for considering any satellite.
 
Marcus_Trivinho

Marcus_Trivinho

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I have a weird dichotomy with satellites. It seems more often than not - when I play in satellites - I end up not placing higher in buy-in events. On the days where I decide I am not going to play in any satellites - I end up making final table more often - and making larger returns on my investment - in buy-in events, that are not satellites.

I know this is crazy superstition, and not grounded in sound logic, but it seems to be the case.

Also - I quite dislike, with extreme prejudice - satellites with long rebuy periods. I'd prefer turbo satellites that last 1-2 hours max, but these seem not to exist on my preferred network.

Buy-in vs Satty - I only play satellites for events that are outside of my current bankroll buyin, and I will only play these maybe once or twice a week. And the buyin amount for the satty has to be quite low for me to even consider. I will play a 0.55 cent or 1.10 buyin satty - for a chance to win a 16.50 or 33.00 ticket into a 25 or 50k gtd. I will not play any sattys that only offer 1-2 tickets, I think this is just lighting money on fire, for everyone except the exceptional few. And I will not play any sattys that are 5% or more of my bankroll.
They have to be cheap for my current bankroll - they need to have a reasonable prize pool - say top 5 or 10 earn a ticket, and they have to be reasonable with respect to duration. That is my criteria for considering any satellite.

Yes bro, I would also like to have a 1-2 hour Satty Turbo, but it's kind of complicated. I also prefer to play Satty that get me a much higher buy-in than invested in Satty are better, but this issue of yours always having problems with tournaments if you play a Satty must be psychological man, just train the emotional and mental that you can do it!:D
 
AmidamaruRu

AmidamaruRu

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To play satellites, you must have 200 contributions, then it does not harm your bankroll
 
Pufik

Pufik

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You should play satellites only for that MTT which you can buy normally. Many players doing mistake playing too high satellites for his bankroll and that can ruin them.
 
nuttea

nuttea

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Hello,

I want to play recreationally big MTTs. But if I will buyin in big, I might be losing lot of money. So I thought could be worth to play satelites, satelites should have more fish maybe also?

And I have tried some, first it looked like good idea, I won ticket after playing few satelites of 16 players, 2 tickets in pool.

Yesterday I played lot of satelites and did not win a single ticket. Today for example, I played satelites which costed 1.88 and I finnally managed to win ticket to 1.1 usd MTT. Played like 12 satelites today. So not sure. Rake is also paid in satelites. Looks like I would have better bought in directly to MTT 1.1. Or was it just bad luck?

I have about 50 usd bankroll dedicated for MTTs. So directly buying in to 1.1 MTT is too agressive. But losing so much sateliites might also be too agressive BRM eeven if sat buy in is 50 cents or like today most of them 15 cents because I thought 50 cents buy for satelites will kill my bankroll soon.

So what do you recomend? Or not even play satelites to tournaments bigger than bankroll allows to directly buy in which would be sad, because I dont have so much time for poker to grind, and not motivation because I see easier money elsewhere.
If you want to know my opinion, when choosing satellites, I focus on satellites with a paid seat for 5-10 buy-ins. I think the game in them is an excellent ratio of skill, ROI and time. As for the bankroll, it should be even more than the one used in MTT 100-200 buy-ins per limit
 
Z

Zirkzee

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Let's say your bankroll is $ 1200. However, you can view them as 24 buy-ins for $ 50 tournaments or 120 buy-ins for one $ 10 tournaments or as 1200 buy-ins for $ 1 tournaments, but it always remains $ 1200. You should think carefully about how you manage your bankroll. If you have $ 1200 tournament for $ 50 you will lose a very large part of your bankroll very quickly. When you go to Example, if you don't cash in 12 tournaments in a row (which happens regularly), half is gone. Do you want to take this risk? If you only pay $ 1 per tournament, it will be very difficult for you to get all of your money to lose. However, you are now acting too cautiously and making too little out of your money. In the end would you like to get further up and an optimal risk reward? So it's about investing a certain portion of your bankroll sensibly in tournaments, with that there is a good relationship between the risk of loss and your chances of winning.
 
MishkaZL

MishkaZL

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The bankroll management system can be applied to any game, for poker, for bingo, for roulette and even for playing on the stock exchange. After all, in essence, bankroll management is a system of effective management of financial assets, and this system can be applied in any field.
 
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seraxel

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I think the issue is when you win a satty to a tourney you are not bankrolled for, the dollar value of that won buy in would be more valuable to your bankroll than the risk of playing that tourney is worth.
 
B

billiamwedge

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My bankroll has always generally been small, and I wish I was a strong enough player to consistently play and win satellites, but if you can't win 1 ticket within 10 buyins of a small 20 cent satelite to a 2 dollar tournament, or if the fields are too large to win tickets, then you have to examine if you are a winning player enough to make them worth it. If you can only make it into the money once every 5 tournaments in a 5 dollar tournament, and it takes you 10 buyins of 20 cents to win 1 ticket, then thats essentially a waste of time because you're barely saving money and you're spending hours grinding tickets instead of just playing the tournament and running deep.
 
micalupagoo

micalupagoo

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I love playing Sats. and have won countless entries into bigger games, now I just need to win the big ones;)
 
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