Ask Collin Moshman and Katie Dozier About Sit ‘n Goes!

[xOneCoolHandx]

Hi and thanks!

Having an extremely stream-lined and efficient setup that works very well for you is very important for mass multi tabling. For me that means played with stacked tables (they pop up when it is your turn to act), using a HUD that displays a limited number of stats, and listening to up-tempo music that encourages me to make good decisions as quickly as possible.

Most importantly, I built up to playing a lot of tables over time, only adding more when I was confident that I was playing well with very few misclicks. Since there’s more potential to miss spots, I also think mass multi tablers should review their own games more even more frequently than those playing fewer tables.

Hope this helps

I think this is amazing that you have trained yourself to do this. I am a player that really prefers to play at one table at a time and get a good read on my opponents while taking thorough notes about their betting patterns, hands they prefer and in what position, ect. I also do not use a HUD (maybe I am too old school or maybe it's the lawyer in me that really likes to observe, find weaknesses that I can attack). I have played 2-3 tables at a time with ok results (I misclick playing one at a time sometimes, I just did last night, meant to fold Q2s but raised instead and the original raiser pushed but it wasn't even a half a bet bigger than my raise so I had to call and fortunately for me, flopped two pair). I have heard of players playing crazy amounts of tables like you. Do you play like this daily? What buyin level do you typically play? Do you play on one screen or do you have a multi-screen setup?

You talked about using HUD. What HUD do you use and are there times when you feel like you have a better read on a particular player and follow your instincts instead of the HUD?

Finally, how much live poker do you play?

 

[Katie Dozier]

. Do you play like this daily? What buyin level do you typically play? Do you play on one screen or do you have a multi-screen setup?

You talked about using HUD. What HUD do you use and are there times when you feel like you have a better read on a particular player and follow your instincts instead of the HUD?

Finally, how much live poker do you play?

Thanks for your nice words [emoji4] Here’s a very short YouTube link that’s a screen capture video of me 40 tabling that I think will answer a lot of your questions as to the setup: https://youtu.be/1TFM_rAwFU8

When I am playing in the US, it is a bit harder to get as many games as I would like to play at one time, especially when playing on multiple sites, but I do what I can . These days I play a pretty large range of buyins, from pretty low stakes up to around the $200ish level for the bigger online tourneys.

One advantage of playing a lot of tables is that I accumulate hands pretty quickly on players, which helps makes my HUD more accurate more quickly. In the video (and the stats I generally use the most) the simple HUD is just vpip/pfr/3betpf . Using that kind of HUD makes it less likely that there’s a spot where my instincts are at odds with my HUD—as usually adjustments I’m making to a particular opponent are based on their HUD.

Of course I also utilize my hand histories to review the games of other regs, focusing on those that I play against the most frequently. I’ll color code and add notes to those players which do eventually (hopefully) get mostly memorized, but I try to stick to practical notes that show a real history of a leak in a way that is useful to me, such as a player “calls 10bb shoves too wide bvb” meaning that the player routinely calls wider than Nash in short stacked blind versus blind spots, and therefore I’m not correct to shove as wide into him as I generally will be shoving there versus others.

I’ve played a fair amount live, but haven’t been quite as into it as of late. To me live and online poker are extremely different, but I love them both!

Paying a lot of attention to a limited number of tables is good, and keep in mind that misclicks are inevitable and a part of online poker. You’re likely exceptional at paying attention to details as a lawyer and it’s so important to make the most of our strengths! [emoji4] In playing so many tables I am simply looking to maximize my hourly earnings, but there are certainly downsides to it!

 

[LLUVV]

Hi Collin and Katie welcome to CardsChat! I’m playing 0.5 9man Turbo SNG regularly now. Wanna to ask you guys would u inclined to shove marginal ICM push spot or playing a more conservative style. Thanks a lot!

 

[Collin Moshman]

Thanks LLUVV! I would suggest taking +EV spots even if they're close. The reason is because in turbos you'll get blinded out quickly if you fold too much, so it's easy to wait for a better spot that never comes.

But, one important caveat: Sometimes you have to change the ranges that software wants to use based on your actual opponents. For example, if it's the bubble and a crazy mid-stacked player is only supposed to call with 99+, you'll want to change his range to one that's more realistic before deciding on your own range.

Good luck in your 9man turbos!

 

[LLUVV]

Thanks LLUVV! I would suggest taking +EV spots even if they're close. The reason is because in turbos you'll get blinded out quickly if you fold too much, so it's easy to wait for a better spot that never comes.

But, one important caveat: Sometimes you have to change the ranges that software wants to use based on your actual opponents. For example, if it's the bubble and a crazy mid-stacked player is only supposed to call with 99+, you'll want to change his range to one that's more realistic before deciding on your own range.

Good luck in your 9man turbos!

Thanks for the reply! It helps me a lot!
Btw, wanna ask how to improve HU play. Finding myself drive into push/fold mode when both player still have 25bb up because being so vulnerable playing postflop. Big thanks to you two answering our questions!

 

[Katie Dozier]

Thanks for the reply! It helps me a lot!
Btw, wanna ask how to improve HU play. Finding myself drive into push/fold mode when both player still have 25bb up because being so vulnerable playing postflop. Big thanks to you two answering our questions!

Thanks, LLUVV!

It sounds like it would be helpful to get a bit more comfortable with post-flop play in general. I went through this myself because I started out grinding super turbo sngs, and then, when I wanted to transition to slower speed sngs, I was the most overwhelmed with post-flop scenarios.

What I did for a while was to switch gears and study playing cash games. I watched cash poker training videos and read up on deeper-stacked strategy. Most importantly, I played low stakes cash games and then reviewed my sessions and talked about any hands that I was unsure of with friends more familiar with deeper-stacked post flip play than I was.

A lot of cash hands wind up being heads-up, which makes this all the more suited to what you’re working on I know it’s not exactly a quick fix, but all of these things radically helped my post-flop game. Best of luck!

 

[MattRyder]

Thanks for your nice words [emoji4] Here’s a very short YouTube link that’s a screen capture video of me 40 tabling that I think will answer a lot of your questions as to the setup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TFM_rAwFU8
...
One advantage of playing a lot of tables is that I accumulate hands pretty quickly on players, which helps makes my HUD more accurate more quickly. In the video (and the stats I generally use the most) the simple HUD is just vpip/pfr/3betpf . Using that kind of HUD makes it less likely that there’s a spot where my instincts are at odds with my HUD—as usually adjustments I’m making to a particular opponent are based on their HUD.

Cool! Just to confirm, it seems that you are using four stats? What is the 4th stat in addition to vpip/pfr/3betpf?

 

[Katie Dozier]

Yes, you’re correct, Matt! At the time of recording that video I also was playing with the fold to steal in Big Blind stat, which I believe I deleted not too long after, because I felt like the likelihood of a player folding a ton to raises in the big blind was generally indicated in the other stats (i.e. a player with a vpip/pfr of 50/2 was very likely to have a low fold to steal in the big blind percent). Hope this helps!

 

[Trillian]

Welcome from me too. Frankly I'm a little bit surprised to find you folks here, since I thought you were somehow bound to somewhere else (where I have not even a 10th of the posts compared to CC). I'm glad that CC improves in terms of education about strategy. Looking forward to read your stuff.

 

[MattRyder]

Yes, you’re correct, Matt! At the time of recording that video I also was playing with the fold to steal in Big Blind stat, which I believe I deleted not too long after, because I felt like the likelihood of a player folding a ton to raises in the big blind was generally indicated in the other stats (i.e. a player with a vpip/pfr of 50/2 was very likely to have a low fold to steal in the big blind percent). Hope this helps!

Thanks Katie. That's interesting. It's funny how the simplest stats are often the most useful. I guess I refer to VPIP and PFR the most, with Fold to LP Steal and 3Bet Preflop coming in 3rd & 4th. I find the 3rd stat very useful since in a tournament I often 'stay in the game' so to speak by stealing as much as possible. I do refer to it in conjunction with the first two stats as you point out but personally like to have it front and centre.

 

[gon4iypes]

Thanks Martin!

I started off playing $25nl cash games and got into SNGs when I was trying different formats and discovered that 10man SNGs (they all had 10 players back in those days!) were a lot of fun and easy to beat with a super-simple tight strategy. I did play other formats including MTT then, but always loved one-table SNGs and played them as my primary game.

Katie started playing SNGs (I believe!) because that was my main format and she started playing online poker after we met.

Hey guys....really excited about your new thread...huge welcome from all of us I'm sure !!! I've never done much more than an occasional SNG but I recently started thinking about doing more because I read somewhere that if you play well there is much lower variance. Would you agree?
Have a good one !!!lol

 

[Collin Moshman]

Appreciate that Trillian, and I really hope that you enjoy the content we're working on

Gon4iypes, thanks! And yes I would definitely agree that SNGs are lower variance than MTT. There's a cool free tool called the Primedope Variance calculator that quantifies variance, and in the course we're working on, we're planning to show how much lower swings you'll face playing SNG.

 

[AlexBlefer]

hey Collin, last night was great and fun! ))
im online PKO player, but im better live
AlexKockar (pokerstrategy )
kockar=gambler
all the best

 

[Katie Dozier]

Thanks Katie. That's interesting. It's funny how the simplest stats are often the most useful. I guess I refer to VPIP and PFR the most, with Fold to LP Steal and 3Bet Preflop coming in 3rd & 4th. I find the 3rd stat very useful since in a tournament I often 'stay in the game' so to speak by stealing as much as possible. I do refer to it in conjunction with the first two stats as you point out but personally like to have it front and centre.

That’s a good point about using a stat to “stay in the game,” I really like that! Come to think of it I think my time using the fourth stat did train me to be thinking about stealing in late position more frequently in spots where widening my range seemed very likely to be profitable

 

[HobokenNJ]

Hi, What a cool thing to be doing. Two questions:

[1]


What's the best resource to getting up to speed on SNG?

Your book looks very well reviewed, but has been out for a number of years. Is the advice still timely? Any particular points in there that need updating?

[2]

Any typical traits you find in your successful students?

 

[kapobar]

Hi and welcome!
Do you play spinngo or HU and what you think about them?
I play usually 6 sngo turbo, is better double up 3 place paid od ordinary with 2 place paid?

 

[Collin Moshman]

hey Collin, last night was great and fun! ))
im online PKO player, but im better live
AlexKockar (pokerstrategy )
kockar=gambler
all the best

Thanks AlexBlefer, glad you enjoyed the coaching and happy to see you on CardsChat!

 

[Collin Moshman]

Hi, What a cool thing to be doing. Two questions:

[1]


What's the best resource to getting up to speed on SNG?

Your book looks very well reviewed, but has been out for a number of years. Is the advice still timely? Any particular points in there that need updating?

[2]

Any typical traits you find in your successful students?

Great questions Hoboken.

1. Glad you asked, Katie and I are working on a course right now for CardsChat that will have a lot of SNG content The single biggest thing to work on right now is GTO ranges in software like Holdem Resources and ICMizer. For the early game, you can use other resources too (e.g. for MTT and cash game) since decisions tend to be very similar between the formats when there's little ICM.

2. They're eager to study. If you suggest they start marking difficult hands in tracking software, they start doing it all the time to learn and improve.

 

[Collin Moshman]

Hi and welcome!
Do you play spinngo or HU and what you think about them?
I play usually 6 sngo turbo, is better double up 3 place paid od ordinary with 2 place paid?

Thanks Kapobar!

I like both spins and HU but make sure the games are soft and rake isn't too high or they can be tough to beat. Both of these formats are a lot of fun though.

I like normal 65/35 6max over DoN 6max because I prefer the strategy with different prizes. But I would base this decision for you on what you like playing more and also where the softer games are

 

[Dejange]

Hi Katie and Collin, nice to see you both here at CC!

From time to time I was focused on SNG's, but main thing demotivating me is the lower prize pool. So, what you would recommend to solve this issue, as MTT's normally paying better, but also harder to get ITM?

 

[wagon596]

Glad to have y'all here on CC ! Being that I'm 73 years old, MTT's have become too much for me to endure. I'm not much of a cash player either, so a few weeks ago I decided to go back to SNG's. Thanks for the pointers both of you have contributed.

Will y'all (yes I'm from the South) be playing in the wsop this year? If so, good luck to you both!

 

[whiskers77]

Very interesting thread so far, especially about the stats.
I have a question about this, are you changing your profiles of stats when you are playing different games, or do have common profile in you HUD for all games, like I do? I am very used to one, well, maybe I also could remove some stats, because the tables a a bit cluttered by this.
I mean, I play MTTs and SNGs mainly, would you recommend different stats for this?

 

[Katie Dozier]

Hi Katie and Collin, nice to see you both here at CC!

From time to time I was focused on SNG's, but main thing demotivating me is the lower prize pool. So, what you would recommend to solve this issue, as MTT's normally paying better, but also harder to get ITM?

Thanks, Dejange! It is true that SNGs tend to have lower prize pools overall, but when motivating ourselves we want to keep in mind the key issue of an hourly rate. Of course if we win the MTT, then our hourly rate for playing an online tournament lasting around 6 hours will be fantastic, but over the long term that hourly rate will not be nearly as high as that.

Even though the prize pools of SNGs do tend to be lower, they take dramatically less time to play, so you can play many more of them in the time it takes to play just one MTT. They are also lower variance, as previously talked about, allowing the potential for a more consistent hourly rate as well. Hope this helps on the motivation front! [emoji4]

 

[Katie Dozier]

Very interesting thread so far, especially about the stats.
I have a question about this, are you changing your profiles of stats when you are playing different games, or do have common profile in you HUD for all games, like I do? I am very used to one, well, maybe I also could remove some stats, because the tables a a bit cluttered by this.
I mean, I play MTTs and SNGs mainly, would you recommend different stats for this?

That’s a very good question! Personally for me, I play with the same stats in part because I mix SNGs and MTTs, so having different HUDs I think wouldn’t work well for me.

That being said I certainly do look at other stats while I play. A common example would be if I’m at a final table, have quite a few hands with someone (such that the stats are likely a nice representative sample of the player), we are heads up in a pot and I have a close decision on if I should c-bet, I’d likely click on the HUD to see their fold to c-bet percent.

I know players that play game types that are more different, such as cash games and heads-up SNGs, that opt to use different HUDs for their two different game types. It certainly can be helpful, particularly in that situation!

In general I’d say to take a hard look at the stats you display and make sure that you’re maximizing your HUD space—which means getting the most out of the ones you choose to display and also not having stats that can make your play less efficient (such as having a cluttered HUD with stats that include a lot of info rarely used practically). Hope this is helpful [emoji4]

 

[Katie Dozier]

Excellent idea of a coaching class of SN. Just waiting for the launch of the course.

Do you have your books to buy at ebooks?

How to choose a SNG easy to play and how to avoid one with too many redulars and pros at them?

Welcome you both.

Thanks, yes Collin and I’s books are available as ebooks on Amazon, kind of you to ask.

In general, the lower the stakes of the SNG, the less likely there are to be a lot of regulars and pros. As you move up in stakes, and there tend to be more regs, their names and stats will become familiar quickly and I recommend tagging them for easy reference on the sites where that is possible—that way you can quickly see in the lobby if an SNG has 8 Regs/Pros (uncommon for sure but it does happen), then you can avoid that game.

Another thing that helps is playing at times where it is a popular time to play, because in general the pros/regs will be playing a lot, whereas on weekends, and after work times, there will tend to be a bigger player pool. You’ll know you’ve found a good time when the games are filling/tables are loading quickly. Best of luck!