When effective stack becomes that small all you can do is hope for cards to come by it's own. Any simple action like raise is already all-in territory, you're simply have no room for an intelligent play. Game starting play itself and players just observe. This is what I hate about MTT.
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/424SeDWJ9
Villain is a passive rock. I know, when coming from the middle of a table, he won't has anything from this kind of flop. I have the read, bluffcatcher and short stack on top of that.
And please don't tell me about "distance will return everything". If someone believe at this bullshit then he/she could get on a final table only by accident.
Here's the hand just from yesterday, bassicly the same situation: https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/424ScY3bz
You can play everything mathematically, with a HUD, and whatnot. It took you well into the money on the $300 game yesterday. I'm not trying to be funny, but take note of how quickly you slipped, at the end. There's a certain amount of savoir faire needed when you're up against proper players
Like I said, it takes a certain amount of je ne sais quoi. Effective stacks and conversations about such are far too specific.
Let's discuss how you had a sizeable pot, from playing by the numbers, and then frittered it away, quickly. You should have been on the final table, but weren't. You need to take a look at why that happened.
I don't understand what did you expect, how far would 10-2 grow to win the pot especially when that party was a 3-way.
I honestly think that blinds are important to catch to be able to grow, but this doesn't mean that you have to defend your position with one of the worst hands in poker by period.
And to be really honest, he could have here many combinations to beat your second pair. Especially if you think he is tight when it comes to opening - you get yourself in a flip and you lost.
Rereading this thread today seems to have imparted a better understanding of your overall question.
If I understand correctly, I'd suggest you make bluff-catching type plays on the river instead, rather than on the flop or turn where there are still cards to come which can upset your reads..
Here's an example I can offer from yesterday's CC $300 supporting my argument that hero/bluff-catching plays are ideally better executed on the river than on the flop or turn:
PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - 300/600 (50 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat
Juan_BigNuts (UTG): 23,105 (39 bb)
feedjo (UTG+1): 5,306 (9 bb)
Branimir84 (MP): 3,798 (6 bb)
Cinhos_2000 (MP+1): 17,192 (29 bb)
Rijckenborg (CO): 18,709 (31 bb)
Tr4cid (BU): 11,806 (20 bb)
Anders1616 (SB): 15,624 (26 bb)
BlackChipp (BB): 21,862 (36 bb)
Pre-Flop: (1,300) Hero (Tr4cid) is BTN with 3♣ 3♠
5 players fold, Tr4cid (BU) raises to 1,800, Anders1616 (SB) calls 1,500, 1 fold
Flop: (4,600) 4♣ 7♦ 4♥ (2 players)
Anders1616 (SB) bets 4,600, Tr4cid (BU) raises to 9,956 (all-in), Anders1616 (SB) calls 5,356
Turn: (24,512) 5♣ (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: (24,512) 5♠ (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: 24,512
Showdown:
Tr4cid (BU) shows 3♣ 3♠ (two pair, Fives and Fours)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 50%, Flop: 59%, Turn: 57%, River: 0%)
Anders1616 (SB) shows T♣ A♣ (two pair, Fives and Fours - higher kicker)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 50%, Flop: 41%, Turn: 43%, River: 100%)
Anders1616 (SB) wins 24,512
I thought you're gonna show a bluff catch on the river... Showing that bluff catch on the flop can ends bad doesn't prove that bluff catch on the river is better.
What I can say for sure that bluff-catching someone on the river is far more hard because it has five cards instead of three, typically for all kind of preflop ranges.
Then why not try cash games instead?
to me that's just careless and unfortunate at the same time for the losing hand I would prefer to bet in that situation to basically see if the other player is gonna call and see where it goes for there but going all in on is basically hoping for some luck.... what if Ander had a 4 or 7 its game over from the start!!!
In cash you can make money only out of a bad players, versus other regulars best you can expect is 50/50 +0.1— 1% win ratio. In tournaments you can make value from both.
The point...I thought you're gonna show a bluff catch on the river... Showing that bluff catch on the flop can ends bad doesn't prove that bluff catch on the river is better.
What I can say for sure that bluff-catching someone on the river is far more hard because it has five cards instead of three, typically for all kind of preflop ranges.
I dont agree with that. The definition of a regular is someone, who play well, so weather its cash or tournaments, you are not going to find big edges against those players. Maybe you can find some, if for instance they are to tight or predictable, which is sometimes referred to as a "bad reg". But if anything this is more important with deep stacks and therefore in cash games.
Personally I do beleive, that its easier to make money in MTTs than cash games. But this has more to do with the fact, that MTTs attract more really bad players, and also the fact, that you tend to pay much more rake per hour in cash games.
Its actually not to difficult to beat cash games, but at the end of the month you will often find, that the majority of the profit, you made at the tables, was taken by the poker site. Using a tracker like PT4 is a bit of an eye opener here, since it also track the amount of rake, you paid. And with todays paultry rakeback programs (actually in Sweden we get zero due to government regulations), high rake is kind of a deal breaker for me and part of the reason, I moved to MTTs.
I see. But MTTs oftenly end up like this:
People love to ruin a good line with a dumb push when they're being outplayed, they just can't find a fold button.
I wonder, how would it feel in a real MTT, especially when you two hours deep, near a bubble. Could you tell me, are people less reckless in real MTTs or maybe there is the limit hold'em MTTs out there?
I see. But MTTs oftenly end up like this:
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/424SLILSZ
People love to ruin a good line with a dumb push when they're being outplayed, they just can't find a fold button. And Variance be like: "Yeah! Keep doing that stupid shit..."
I wonder, how would it feel in a real MTT, especially when you two hours deep, near a bubble. Could you tell me, are people less reckless in real MTTs or maybe there is the limit hold'em MTTs out there?
Let's not talk about it in MTT's ITM. When effective stack becomes that small all you can do is hope for cards to come by it's own. Any simple action like raise is already all-in territory, you're simply have no room for an intelligent play. Game starting play itself and players just observe. This is what I hate about MTT.
The thing is, that in tournaments risk can pay off, in cash however its just minus EV on a distance. In cash you can make money only out of a bad players, versus other regulars best you can expect is 50/50 +0.1— 1% win ratio. In tournaments you can make value from both.
\Well if you don't like short stack play then register at the beginning of mtt and start building your stack. And don't play hyper. And also push fold play is not as simple and unintelligent as you say.
There is no just "Good player" and "Bad player". There are limits. The higher they go, the less leaks those players have. And the tougher the game becomes. And franckly you can easily exploit microlimits.
good player bad player PRO player
The A6o hand is another prime example. That hand should have been folded, when the action first got to you, and it should certainly not have been limp-reraised. Thats just a really bizarre line, which you should not take with any hand. Then you got lucky and flopped two pair, and your opponent took it to the streets and stacked off with bottom pair and some backdoors, which meant, that your poor play somehow again resulted in you getting your chips in good. But then he made trips on the river and sucked out on you. This is then the part of the hand, you focus on, but the much more important point is, you should never have been in this hand in the first place.