All in at flop to stop a flush draw? - good or bad?

[KRANKES]

I’ve been running into this scenario quite a bit and wanted to get some community feedback on the best way to play it.

The flop either hits me (trips / two pair) or it’s low and uncoordinated (no straight possible) and I have high pair (JJ+) BUT there is a flush draw on the table.

Normally when this occurs I c-bet the full pot to ensure my opponents are not getting pot odds to call down a flush. sometime if my stack size is not large enough this results in going all in (since I’d be pot commuted anyway).

Occasionally, especially at the micro stakes level, an opponent will still call me and hit their flush, making me go bust.


I’m wondering if protecting yourself in this spot (aggressively raising) is still the best play or if there is a different strategy I should be employing?

I’m also curious if they push you all in (and you know you have the best hand unless they hit the flush) if calling is always the right move.

Appreciate the thoughts.

On the microstakes lots of players play suited hands. If they flop two more of their colour, they will call you down even if you bet your house, your car and their wifes. They already have the flush, that-s why they are in the hand. You give them a free card? No, you give yourself the opportunity to fold, when the flush completes :smile:
BTW, next time ask opponent on Microstakes, what are pot odds pretty sure answer is : something to smoke

 

[Pawlowski]

All in is not a bad decision. You have higher probability at this stage.
But depending on the tournament and your mood, just going on 3 to 4 BB and see what comes next is also ok.

 

[AllOut]

going all-in in a flop with flush draw is usually for someone who's drawing since you can't easily put opponent in that hand without any bet on the flop. If he raise your bet on the flop, he might be drawing so based on his stack it won't stop them always. (For perfect example look at the Sammy vs Patrick KJs vs J9o hand on HSP haha)

And there's no way folding sets against allin in a draw heavy board so you should def call and face the fate. If it's a cash game and you won't risk it all, you may decide for dealing two or more times.

 

[Mityamoriss]

If I’m not mistaken,I think there’s a 18% chance of your opponent hitting the flush on the turn or river,so I’ll probably call

 

[woodeng]

I have been playing online poker tournaments -- low entry fee and honestly I think you need to be aggressive if you have a really good hand on the flop, but there is a possible flush draw. I don't find going all in to avoid the flush draw a bad play in low stake online tournaments because of the number of times I see the flush come on the river on online poker. In live poker -- I don't know if I would be that aggressive. If it is early on in the tournament though, you know will have those players that will still call hoping for that flush card.

 

[NWPatriot]

For every bet size, there is an equity where our EV is the same whether they call or fold. This also means, that for every equity, there is a bet size where our EV is the same whether they call or fold. (Indifference). At 60% equity, this bet size is 2x the pot, and our EV will be the entire pot. The closer we get to 51% equity, the larger the bet size needs to be, to the point where there aren't enough chips to achieve this indifference. There is no solution at 50% equity.

This doesn't mean this is optimal, it just means our opponent can't earn more than we are allowing him to. There is another implication here as well. This data point also tells us whether we "want" more folds (below these values) or "want" more calls (above these values). This is the true definition of value vs bluff.

This is the math answer. Exploitatively we have no choice but to let our opponent tell us what they are going to do. If they will not fold, there is no point inflating the pot, unless we are a heavy favorite. Having more than 85% favorite (a set) is a point where we would want calls. A fold will give up EV on a strong hand like this.

Yes, equity goes up and down during the hand. If we want to manage this risk, then if we wait until the turn, we will get an equity boost of 4-10% if the draws don't complete. Now our story is more clear. We either bet to get called (value), or we bet to get folds (low strength hands or semi-bluffs). Obviously, waiting until the river will tell us all we will ever know, but it may be difficult to get any value if they have totally missed.

Good luck and God bless.

 

[filippfilm]

I’ve been running into this scenario quite a bit and wanted to get some community feedback on the best way to play it.

The flop either hits me (trips / two pair) or it’s low and uncoordinated (no straight possible) and I have high pair (JJ+) BUT there is a flush draw on the table.

Normally when this occurs I c-bet the full pot to ensure my opponents are not getting pot odds to call down a flush. sometime if my stack size is not large enough this results in going all in (since I’d be pot commuted anyway).

Occasionally, especially at the micro stakes level, an opponent will still call me and hit their flush, making me go bust.

I’m wondering if protecting yourself in this spot (aggressively raising) is still the best play or if there is a different strategy I should be employing?

I’m also curious if they push you all in (and you know you have the best hand unless they hit the flush) if calling is always the right move.

Appreciate the thoughts.

Very good question .And there is no clear answer here, as many parameters and dynamics at the table affect it . Here you need to know the opponents at the table , if he discards, then yes, you need to bet . But if the table is not familiar to you, then you need to play conservatively raise on the flop to understand the reaction . And continue to act on the oponent and its actions on the turn and river. Going to olin in many situations is definitely not worth it - you are playing in a tournament and you should always leave yourself a chance to continue. In addition, good raises can be scarier than ollin, and he may think that you are pulling chips out of him and will fold even a strong hand .