3-Bet Calling Ranges

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linda1963

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Should I have a 3-bet calling range when OOP? If so what should it look like? :confused::confused:
 
Zapahlohotrona

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There are simply not so many skillful people on the forum ready to share their knowledge. I would read it with pleasure, but I am still rather weak to advise and discuss.
 
Zapahlohotrona

Zapahlohotrona

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In the calculator, you need to look at how your hands are against the 3bet range, if 50% + then this is a plus range.
 
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JimTheBadger

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In most tournaments I defend something like 65%-75% of my opening range against a 3bet. It's up to you how to construct your range but a mistake most players make at Micros is not playing enough of their range vs an IP 3 bet.

I'd say start slow at first because I didn't get to that frequency overnight. It took sometime to get comfortable playing hands and also 4 bet bluffing hands I would normally have folded before.
 
Luvepoker

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The problem is there is not a simple answer. That is part of the problem and dun of poker. The answer is " It depends"

1st of all calling a 3bet OOP is not a great move. OOP is a disadvantage where calling IP is better for you. Then there is the player you are against. Is he a Nit or a maniac or somewhere between. Some Maniac and very tight with there 3 bet range and I have seen a NIT with a higher 3 bet range than you would think. Then comes the question is what type of player is he post flop. Honest or bluffs a lot, passive or aggressive. Dont forget the size of there 3bet. A guy who just doubles your bet you can call wider but someone who 5x you raise you should fold way more tightly.

My advise is this. Look for hands with play-ability to start with. Make sure the math for the call is correct but take it slowly. If your raise early on and have 9Ts and are deep you can call. With 30BB the same call would be an error. as you wont make enough to cover the losses you will have. Many players will over defend here. Dont become one of them.
 
LFC_yllnwa

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Don't put too much emphasis on the position at the table, I don't think it's important more, than 10%, because no one will tell (show) how to play and what will help you win. Try to use less of the rules of the game and possible statistics from experts or very strong players. Look at the game of your opponents, how the table is playing and what is your situation in the tournament. It is necessary to go from yourself and slightly change the plan, the strategy of the game from the opponent's game. Sometimes you have to be super aggressive, sometimes you have to play in a crazy way to get an advantage and the question of the amount of the bet must be decided after observation, analysis and other data. Plan, strategy, observations, analysis and luck are 90% of success :) 10% are small rules that can sometimes help to keep yourself at the table, but it is impossible to follow them every time :)
 
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eetenor

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Should I have a 3-bet calling range when OOP? If so what should it look like? :confused::confused:


Thank you for posting.


1 A 3 bet OOP call range should not include dominated hands post flop.
So KQo can be a call but KTo is not.

2 Vs V with wider 3 bet ranges Kxs Qxs is better than 75s 64s as we can make winning top pairs as well as the draws.

Hope this helps
:):)
 
perrypip

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It depends on how often the player 3 bets. If you fold too often to a player who 3 bets frequently they can take advantage over you.
 
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JimTheBadger

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Don't put too much emphasis on the position at the table, I don't think it's important more, than 10%, because no one will tell (show) how to play and what will help you win. Try to use less of the rules of the game and possible statistics from experts or very strong players. Look at the game of your opponents, how the table is playing and what is your situation in the tournament. It is necessary to go from yourself and slightly change the plan, the strategy of the game from the opponent's game. Sometimes you have to be super aggressive, sometimes you have to play in a crazy way to get an advantage and the question of the amount of the bet must be decided after observation, analysis and other data. Plan, strategy, observations, analysis and luck are 90% of success :) 10% are small rules that can sometimes help to keep yourself at the table, but it is impossible to follow them every time :)



This isn't actual advice for the topic. This is just a generic paragraph you could post anywhere. No actual information in there lol
 
LFC_yllnwa

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This isn't actual advice for the topic. This is just a generic paragraph you could post anywhere. No actual information in there lol

Very relevant advice and it is on the topic and the question that the author of the topic asks!

If you do not understand, I will say briefly, you must determine the range for the 3-bet call game yourself, and of course it should be used and it should not be tied to a position. How to use it correctly? The author must see for himself at the table and be able to determine, when and how to properly manage it.
 
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JimTheBadger

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Very relevant advice and it is on the topic and the question that the author of the topic asks!

If you do not understand, I will say briefly, you must determine the range for the 3-bet call game yourself, and of course it should be used and it should not be tied to a position. How to use it correctly? The author must see for himself at the table and be able to determine, when and how to properly manage it.



You're 3 bet call range should look different depending where you are and who opens. Im not 3 betting 76 suited from CO to an UTG open. I would 3 bet it from the SB to an open from CO or later. Position and the position of are oppents is extremely important and shouldn't be disregarded.
 
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Zirkzee

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You can flatcall against a raise with cards like AJs, KQs, QJs, JTs, T9s. If the board is draw-heavy, you can take the initiative back with a donkbet. On a draw-heavy board, you as a caller hit something more than your opponent. Your opponent tends to target high cards and you tend to target lower cards & suited connectors. If your opponent thinks with you, he will find your hand very strong if you donkbed him. You should bet at least half a pot because if you bet too small your opponent is more likely to reraise you. You can also donkbed pure bluffs or weaker draws like a good shot or a middle pair. The prerequisite is that the board is draw-heavy. You should not donk on dry boards, as these boards do not connect to your hand range. If you've really flopped a monster on a dry board, you don't have to donkbed as your opponent will likely bet. This may give you more chips for your strong hands.
 
LFC_yllnwa

LFC_yllnwa

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You're 3 bet call range should look different depending where you are and who opens. Im not 3 betting 76 suited from CO to an UTG open. I would 3 bet it from the SB to an open from CO or later. Position and the position of are oppents is extremely important and shouldn't be disregarded.

The position should not and will not be a decisive factor if you correctly determine the strength of the table and conduct competent statistics for each player at the table. You have to consider a lot of factors before entering the game and the position is not the main priority in this. Of course, opening the middle hand from an early position and getting several attacks from the table further is absolutely stupid, but sometimes the table and the opponents have nothing against it and your aggression and attack will only be your advantage. I repeat, position take place, but this it is not the decisive and not main factor at the table and it is not right to proceed from this! I also want to say, that each player plays differently and it is impossible to determine the best tactics at the table....
 
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JimTheBadger

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Before you start trying to give advice I work on you're writing. I have no idea what you are trying to say other than you disagree. Yea there's a lot going on when making decisions but from a theory perspective, position, stack depth and bet sizing are most important. Good players adjust to who they are playing but without a fundemental understanding of the other variables there's going to be holes in you're game.

The position should not and will not be a decisive factor if you correctly determine the strength of the table and conduct competent statistics for each player at the table. You have to consider a lot of factors before entering the game and the position is not the main priority in this. Of course, opening the middle hand from an early position and getting several attacks from the table further is absolutely stupid, but sometimes the table and the opponents have nothing against it and your aggression and attack will only be your advantage. I repeat, position take place, but this it is not the decisive and not main factor at the table and it is not right to proceed from this! I also want to say, that each player plays differently and it is impossible to determine the best tactics at the table....
 
LFC_yllnwa

LFC_yllnwa

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Before you start trying to give advice I work on you're writing. I have no idea what you are trying to say other than you disagree. Yea there's a lot going on when making decisions but from a theory perspective, position, stack depth and bet sizing are most important. Good players adjust to who they are playing but without a fundemental understanding of the other variables there's going to be holes in you're game.

This is a forum and here the guys express their opinion about the game. I will never say, that what I write should definitely be used, this is my experience and perhaps it will be useful for someone and only! I did not say, that you are telling a not true or say incorrectly, but every player must choose and be able to play differently at the table in order to achieve good results. From a theoretical point of view, AA is the strongest hand and it should win every time or more than 90% of the time, but unfortunately on a long distance it is successful no more, than 60% of the time or less... Therefore, poker and theory are not very close..

Fundamental knowledge is important, but it does not bring great victories and success at the table, and it does not matter much! The player must proceed from them, but not follow them every time he receives cards at the table!
 
Ashley Sleeth

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Should I have a 3-bet calling range when OOP? If so what should it look like? :confused::confused:
In many cases, you should have a calling range v a 3-bet even if you're OOP. Otherwise, you're opponent can just 3-bet you with a polarized range knowing that you'll either 4-bet or fold, which makes his/her preflop decision very easy. (And the last thing we want to do is give our opponents easy decisions against us!)


Determining which hands to put in that calling range depends on many factors:
1) Stack size of both players
-If you're in a tournament and started the hand with 15 big blinds, you are risking too much of your stack to be calling a 3-bet. If you have 100bb stacks, you can add hands with the best post flop playability to your calling range: suited connectors, low-mid pairs, Ax suited hands, etc.

2) Position of both players
-A BTN v CO 3bet will contain a wider range of hands than an UTG1 vs UTG 3bet. We have to play our range accordingly.

3) Opponent's style of play: loose or tight; passive or aggressive
-If a player is tight and generally passive, you will want to fold more of your range when they 3bet because it is quite strong. If the 3bettor tends to be loose and aggressive preflop, you can call a larger portion of your opening range because it dominates more of their hands.

4) Their 3 Bet Size
-We need to be tighter against a larger 3 bet size

Hope that helps!
 
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linda1963

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In many cases, you should have a calling range v a 3-bet even if you're OOP. Otherwise, you're opponent can just 3-bet you with a polarized range knowing that you'll either 4-bet or fold, which makes his/her preflop decision very easy. (And the last thing we want to do is give our opponents easy decisions against us!)


Determining which hands to put in that calling range depends on many factors:
1) Stack size of both players
-If you're in a tournament and started the hand with 15 big blinds, you are risking too much of your stack to be calling a 3-bet. If you have 100bb stacks, you can add hands with the best post flop playability to your calling range: suited connectors, low-mid pairs, Ax suited hands, etc.

2) Position of both players
-A BTN v CO 3bet will contain a wider range of hands than an UTG1 vs UTG 3bet. We have to play our range accordingly.

3) Opponent's style of play: loose or tight; passive or aggressive
-If a player is tight and generally passive, you will want to fold more of your range when they 3bet because it is quite strong. If the 3bettor tends to be loose and aggressive preflop, you can call a larger portion of your opening range because it dominates more of their hands.

4) Their 3 Bet Size
-We need to be tighter against a larger 3 bet size

Hope that helps!
Thanks very much that helps a lot :):)
 
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eetenor

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In many cases, you should have a calling range v a 3-bet even if you're OOP. Otherwise, you're opponent can just 3-bet you with a polarized range knowing that you'll either 4-bet or fold, which makes his/her preflop decision very easy. (And the last thing we want to do is give our opponents easy decisions against us!)


Determining which hands to put in that calling range depends on many factors:
1) Stack size of both players
-If you're in a tournament and started the hand with 15 big blinds, you are risking too much of your stack to be calling a 3-bet. If you have 100bb stacks, you can add hands with the best post flop playability to your calling range: suited connectors, low-mid pairs, Ax suited hands, etc.

2) Position of both players
-A BTN v CO 3bet will contain a wider range of hands than an UTG1 vs UTG 3bet. We have to play our range accordingly.

3) Opponent's style of play: loose or tight; passive or aggressive
-If a player is tight and generally passive, you will want to fold more of your range when they 3bet because it is quite strong. If the 3bettor tends to be loose and aggressive preflop, you can call a larger portion of your opening range because it dominates more of their hands.

4) Their 3 Bet Size
-We need to be tighter against a larger 3 bet size

Hope that helps!


Thank you for posting.
Very strong points, just adding to your thoughts, the following may be of value to others.

3A:
The post flop skill level of the V matters as well. If the V is tight preflop but over folds post flop we can call wider. If TAG pot controls more often we get to realize our equity more often so more calling. If the TAG has problems folding over pairs we also stack them often enough to balance our wider OOP 3 bet calls.

If the V is LAG but plays well post flop we may not want to widen our range as our V can manage the pot post flop which negates range dominance. So versus a skilled LAG when we have no skill advantage post flop we may want to call a tighter less dominated range.
It is important to know when we do not have an edge over another player and not decrease our edge further in large pots by calling OOP with a wider range.

4A:
Versus a skilled V we cannot read into 3 bet sizing as the sizing may be well balanced. If a good player thinks you fold to often they will big bet their bluffs and some value choosing to small 3 bet the top of their range. If they think you call to often they may big bet their full range, a range which they will have adjusted to your expected range.
They will then make the correct range refinements on each street which means we will seldom dominate their range by the river.

Hope this helps
:):)
 
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easy play

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Ofcourse one needs to defend against 3Bets OOP. Or else opponents can exploit us by having a wide 3 betting range.

I generally defend around 55-65% of my range.
 
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Recreationalplayer

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Its absolutely necessary to have 3-bet calling range as well as 4-bet range when OOP.
Defend around 50-65% of your range depending on their 3-bet size. Opponents will exploit us by 3-betting wide if we always fold. 4-betting discourages 3-betting and stops our opponents from realizing equity.
 
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adjacentcape1

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A lot of your calling range will depend on your opponents. Like discussed, if you think you can take your opponent down easily post-flop, then it would be more profitable to call. If you are deep stacked, then it would make more sense to call, and if the raising size is small enough, simple calculations can help you show which decision to take.
 
theANMATOR

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Should I have a 3-bet calling range when OOP? If so what should it look like? :confused::confused:
Yes - each player has a different range of course - but I construct mine based on the villain.
A lot of players have a wide 3betting range - my 3bet calling and 4betting range is also wide vs these players.
Other players have tight 3betting ranges. I have a EXTREMELY tight 3bet calling range vs these players. But mostly it's either 4bet or fold for me vs these tight players.


In most tournaments I defend something like 65%-75% of my opening range against a 3bet. It's up to you how to construct your range but a mistake most players make at Micros is not playing enough of their range vs an IP 3 bet.

I'd say start slow at first because I didn't get to that frequency overnight. It took sometime to get comfortable playing hands and also 4 bet bluffing hands I would normally have folded before.

Wow Jim - that is a pretty wide calling range, assuming you are opening something like 15-20% of hands depending upon position. But - you are probably taking into account the opponents as well - as I stated above?
 
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Zirkzee

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I always divide my range into a raise / call and a raise / fold range. With my raise / fold range I want to steal the pot cheaply. If only one opponent calls, I can easily win the pot with a c-bet. If an opponent 3-bets me, I fold. So the raise / call range are my best hands and I would love to play with all my chips with those hands. Depending on the position and characteristics of the opponent, the raise / call range can vary. In any case, it must beat your opponent's 3-bet range. If you don't have any information and statistics about your opponent, you can start with your 3-bet range. It is often easier to start from a basic range and then adjust the basic range depending on the specific characteristics of the opponent. Your opponent could 3-bet with a relatively wide range, as he may also have a 3-bet / fold range with which he would like to steal the pot with a bluff. He could have something like A2o-A9o, K9o-KTo or QJo (3-bet / bluff) or he could have a power hand (TT +, AQ + -> 3-bet / call). You can call his 3-bet with a range of AT+, 88+. If the flop is draw heavy and you have a middle pair after the flop, you can recapture the initiative with a donkbet. You can donkbet all hands with which you do not want to be attacked.
 
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