Can you lay down AKo here

[MATelford]

INSTANT FOLD!!!! WTF IS THE POINT IN CALLING OFF YOUR WHOLE STACK WITH A DRAWING HAND. AA, KK AND THATS ALL YOU SHOULD CALL WITH THERE, EVEN IF HE HAS 7 2.

The blind is 2400! Why put 45k in there? From a flat all in??? a mean come on!! You dont know what he has and it doesnt matter you made the right move to wait and pounce, not call like an idiot.

e.g. I seen High Stakes Poker were a guy raised huge out of position with 3s 8c and Phil Ivey had KK. The flop came 2h 4d 6d. The guy went all in for about 300k. Even though Phil Ivey has KK, its just far too much to call and he folded.

 

[Melkor]

INSTANT FOLD!!!! WTF IS THE POINT IN CALLING OFF YOUR WHOLE STACK WITH A DRAWING HAND. AA, KK AND THATS ALL YOU SHOULD CALL WITH THERE, EVEN IF HE HAS 7 2.

The blind is 2400! Why put 45k in there? From a flat all in??? a mean come on!! You dont know what he has and it doesnt matter you made the right move to wait and pounce, not call like an idiot.

e.g. I seen High Stakes Poker were a guy raised huge out of position with 3s 8c and Phil Ivey had KK. The flop came 2h 4d 6d. The guy went all in for about 300k. Even though Phil Ivey has KK, its just far too much to call and he folded.

lol

An effective M of just over 4 means you are not getting many more chances to double up when you could be well ahead. No point being able to outplay your opponents when shoving becomes the only viable move due to your chip stack.

Open shove from the BTN could mean a lot, you are ahead of his range and you need a double up. Easy call.

 

[Sumun]

you are short stacked, i think its better to call with that hand than take the risk of lose folding or call with worst hands

 

[MATelford]

45k at this level is not short stacked and by the theory given above you can "orbit" the table more than 4 times.

Also it doesnt matter if you think this is shortstacked. Its not. Instead of throwing your chips in the middle on one over rated hand, you should just wait. There is always another hand here. I even fold when I have one blind left and have come back many times from having one blind.

 

[Melkor]

45k at this level is not short stacked and by the theory given above you can "orbit" the table more than 4 times.

Also it doesnt matter if you think this is shortstacked. Its not. Instead of throwing your chips in the middle on one over rated hand, you should just wait. There is always another hand here. I even fold when I have one blind left and have come back many times from having one blind.

I think I may be getting leveled but I will bite.

Of course you can orbit the table ten more times but with four people left how is that not shortstacked? That is only 40 hands and you are advocating waiting for AA or KK to come along?

Obviously you are Super Mr Comebackman but for the rest of us we have to shove when we think we have a pretty good edge to double up.

 

[silverslugger33]

No way do I lay this down. This screams steal to me, and he doesn't want you to try to resteal, so he shoves instead of making a typical raise. Insta call.

 

[MATelford]

insta fold. cant believe this ****. snap call omfg. Im going do that with aces then.

 

[Dwilius]

Im going do that with aces then.

Alright, but you're dealt aces 1/221 and hero is blinding out in ~30 hands if he waits for a big pair while the blinds go up.

 

[dj11]

Because this is 4 handed, I think the range widens to include even suited connectors, down to maybe even 6, along with almost any PP's , certainly above 55. Seems we all agree villain might not jam with KK or AA

I call in a heartbeat.

 

[naruto_miu]

INSTANT FOLD!!!! WTF IS THE POINT IN CALLING OFF YOUR WHOLE STACK WITH A DRAWING HAND. AA, KK AND THATS ALL YOU SHOULD CALL WITH THERE, EVEN IF HE HAS 7 2.

The blind is 2400! Why put 45k in there? From a flat all in??? a mean come on!! You dont know what he has and it doesnt matter you made the right move to wait and pounce, not call like an idiot.

e.g. I seen High Stakes Poker were a guy raised huge out of position with 3s 8c and Phil Ivey had KK. The flop came 2h 4d 6d. The guy went all in for about 300k. Even though Phil Ivey has KK, its just far too much to call and he folded.

Your talking about Brad "Yukon" Booth Vs Ivey, and yes that was a pretty ballsey move on Booth's part, now lets get back to the hand here, this is a $4.40 max he can win $216, max Ivey could've lost 300k...........


Big Difference don't you think ?

 

[EvilEmperor]

Got to call this unless villain is a super nit. If you had one of the bigger stacks you could possibly fold this spot but not with the stack you got here. More than likely your flipping against medium pair but worse Ace is possible.

 

[MATelford]

still cant believe this. you are correct about the stake differences between high stakes cash games and small buyin tournaments.

This for me though is around the same odds.The equivalent of Ivey and his 300k is really the same as a player with a smaller bankroll taking an extra place in that tournament. I mean the small time player calling and losing out to 3rd with AKo is the same as Ivey calling and losing 300k.

He did the right thing and I still am astounded at how many people say they would call here, its just insanity.

 

[Melkor]

still cant believe this. you are correct about the stake differences between high stakes cash games and small buyin tournaments.

This for me though is around the same odds.The equivalent of Ivey and his 300k is really the same as a player with a smaller bankroll taking an extra place in that tournament. I mean the small time player calling and losing out to 3rd with AKo is the same as Ivey calling and losing 300k.

He did the right thing and I still am astounded at how many people say they would call here, its just insanity.

Why on earth are you bringing Phil Ivey's bloody bankroll into a discussion about calling a shove with AK pf in a micro stakes SnG.

It is NOTHING like Ivey's situation. You did notice there was a flop in the Ivey hand? So the betting suggested a set for Booth or at least a pair and a draw of some type. He also had more than 250BB. So I can notice how you are drawing comparisions with a 20BB situation.

At least the people saying fold AK are giving some decent reasons. I still think they are making a huge error here and would love them in my blinds but your reasoning is beyond dumb.

 

[murraygoals]

Since both of you are acting after him, he makes that push with a hand like AQ or small pair like someone had said before. If he had something big like AA or KK, im sure that he would try to milk everyone dry instead of overbetting all in. Although there was some stealing going on at this table, I think youd be safe to call knowing that even if you are an underdog, you wouldn't be by that much.....and you could also be a dominating favorite when all face cards flop......Id say make the call and go for first place with one of the best starting hands in hold em.

 

[paumarhas]

guess i got here to late. you should've went with your first instincts, since 4 out of 180 and pays top three. why would you want to risk being knocked out. this is one area where i need to take my own advice, so if i mention it here i'm in fact reminding myself.
to never call on coin toss when it involves more than 10% or a little more of my stack. maybe you can take the risk in the first early levels, but not when your so deep. villian has the advantage and he can afford to do it. beware of the villian, lol.
your hand always looks very good preflop.
another thing i just read: the game of HE originally was meant to be played more so post flop. but once it became so televised and media got so many interested, it became a game of "get an ace and start the race", hence more of the play preflop, which becomes advantageous for the "cardcatchers". i read this in doyle's "super system 2"
so no matter what your hold card is your leaving yourself wide open for the card catchers. (or course you could be the one that catches the cards) also your relying on the luck factoer more than skill.
well good luck and have some fun if you can.

 

[MATelford]

Why on earth are you bringing Phil Ivey's bloody bankroll into a discussion about calling a shove with AK pf in a micro stakes SnG.

It is NOTHING like Ivey's situation. You did notice there was a flop in the Ivey hand? So the betting suggested a set for Booth or at least a pair and a draw of some type. He also had more than 250BB. So I can notice how you are drawing comparisions with a 20BB situation.

At least the people saying fold AK are giving some decent reasons. I still think they are making a huge error here and would love them in my blinds but your reasoning is beyond dumb.

Ok the comparison was pretty exreme my friend but its something similar in terms of situation.

Its too much to call, its a trick.

 

[LizzyJ]

You're in the money, you have to call, win or lose. If you're not going to play K A offsuit are you trying to say you're only going to play pp's or bet to steal pots?

Incorrect, sir. The point has been brought up the only cards to play in this situation is AA or KK.

I don't agree, but if this strategy works for someone.....

 

[Janon]

i put it on QQ and below would probably a coin flip also maybe AK i wouldnt call just because im not a gambler like that preflop i usually like to have the best hand b4 preflop and not so sure since you said he dosent push preflop or he could just be stealing cuz hes a deepstack .

 

[soonerdel]

just out of curiosity, what hand are you waiting for to get it allin with.
snap call.

 

[Jfahimirad]

Snap calling 4 handed seems like a must in this situation. Seems like a classic race situation.

 

[MATelford]

just out of curiosity, what hand are you waiting for to get it allin with.
snap call.

I personally dont call there without AA KK, unless the guy has shown me exactly what hes up to before. There is more of a chance i'll call with 88+ here than AKo if i've figured it out. If hes extremely optimistic and smart he could do the same in that place with a bluff or a monster. He maybe thinks his hand is good if he holds AQs or 1010 but a genius would know they've been caught out and woud open shove all in for 80k with AA.

That takes balls.

 

[santa fe slim]

Gotta agree with the other posts. Call. Without knowing the guys play, most likely guess is a pocket pair. J's or less, thus you have a coin flip.

 

[yankeenut23]

So did we ever find out what the other player had?
I would call with Ak here in a heart beat...cant get much better than that 4 handed.